My horse looks like an RSPCA case....

I always carry a stick with me when out hacking too. The main reason for this is that from the very onset of me learning to ride I can remember carrying a whip.
Some horses I rode in the past were ploddy and for all the will in the world kicking, squeezing and whatever else had no effect until they were given a reminder with the whip and then they moved.
Imo I carry a whip to reinforce good behaviour.
If my horse or any that I am riding misbehaves especially on the road - when in fact they could be actually putting your life at risk- they get a sharp reminder to behave!
I think as an experienced rider you can tell the difference between a horse that is genuinely scared in a situation and one that is quite literally taking the p*ss.
I won't stand for any horse doing the latter.
Yes I love horses but at the same time whether you are riding them or working with them from the ground you need to be able to have the upper hand.
To have little or no control over essentially what can be at least half a ton of sheer weight and muscle is a disaster waiting to happen.
I do practice natural horsemanship wherever I can however when out hacking and outside the 'safe' school environment I feel as a rider you need to be in control at all times.
Not only for your own safety but also for the safety of other horse riders, pedestrians, cyclists and dare I say vehicle drivers ( runs and hides lol).
Horses can be nappy ( indeed my big lad is) however that does not mean to say that if we are out and I feel he is misbehaving he will not get a sharp smack of the whip.
I can thoroughly understand MizElz's reaction to her mare and I think in all honesty were I in the same situation I would have smacked the horse in the end.
Obviously I would have had a whip though and those smacks would have been issued behind the saddle and/ or down the shoulder.
In defence of MizElz's story though, the marks were not permanent. Flesh was not broken and the mare has obviously suffered no ill effects from it.
Therefore I cannot really see what the problem was.
However in the future I would suggest that you carry a whip MizElz because as you found out you never know when you might need it lol.
Caz
 
Yes - always carry a stick, i use it to help me open gates sometimes and since its a schooling whip I do tend to poke it out a bit when I hear a car coming in the hope they will give us a bit more room.

What's the thing with getting off and leading - my instructor has said that at times instead of getting into a bad arugment with neddie just get it over with and if that involves getting off and leading then so be it.
 
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What's the thing with getting off and leading - my instructor has said that at times instead of getting into a bad arugment with neddie just get it over with and if that involves getting off and leading then so be it.

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this is a tricky one, and i think it depends on the kind of relationship you have with your horse. i had a palomino mare who i frequently jumped off and led when she was quibbling about somethng - simply because i was scared of her, and what she would do if i hung on and tried to make her go forward. she bucked me off, reared and spun round with me countless times; i knew it was wrong to be defeatist and get off her, but she was 19 and never going to change, and i didnt want to end up dead! with ellie, on the other hand, i would try not to resort to getting off, simply because i feel it shows bad manners. hell, she's by no means a perfect mannered mare, but in instances such as yesterday, i just think, 'hey, there is absolutely NO reason for you not to go forward, so there is absolutely NO reason for me to get off!'. and im not scared of her, so i can prepare myself for wateva she may do to evade me. i dont like things getting the better of me, be they equine, canine or human!!!
 
Mares are such fun ain't they
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get some vinegar (sp?) on to the marks and it should help them go down quicker.
Here's hoping she plays ball next time!
 
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ummm not really the best approach in my opion...I tend to either get off my horse and lead him on or just sit patient even if its all day and squeeze with my leg....I dont think your going to get alot of sympathy on here...

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Sometimes getting off is not the answer either. My youngster had a "thing" about water, so I decided I was going to train him over a stream, which leads on to private land, when he wouldn't go over it I got off and led him through, only to turn around in time to see him JUMPING it like it was 6ft high and aiming straight for me
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Having got him one side I now needed to get back again, the only way in and out is over the stream, but do you think I could get him to go?! In the end I too had to whack him very hard with my whacky stick that I always carry and very rarely use but on this occasion it was needed. My mum was with me on her horse, so I told her to ride away in the hope that Boo would follow and after a few more whacks he did.

Did I loathe myself for having to resort to it? Yes, probably but it never upset him, fortunately. In fact, he pays very little attention to the stick!
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Mares are such fun ain't they
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get some vinegar (sp?) on to the marks and it should help them go down quicker.
Here's hoping she plays ball next time!

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i know, bloody mares!! but you know, id never change her for the world, and i dont think i would ever get a gelding! as naughty as she is, i like the fact that we can go out hacking and nothing is ever the same, there's always something new to be scared of lol!

the marks are gone now, too - she got her revenge on me earlier by zapping me on the electric fence
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nasty horse!!!!!
 
I don't think that getting off admits defeat - Toff is a serial napper, it has taken me years of trying everything to try and get her to move when she doesn't want to including being nice, being firm, being angry and even turning her round and going backwards (worked twice!). Once all the above had failed I had to what I thought was admit defeat and get off. I lead her for a few strides and got back on, straight into trot and off we went! No arguments, no smacking, no tears! Even IF Toffee sees it as winning, the fact that we are going were I want, when I want, doesn't make it seem like I am losing. I think giving up and going home means the pony "wins"... Touch wood, Toff has been very good about napping and hasn’t for the last 6 months or so and I am sure this has helped (That and a saddle adjustment and physio….)

I don't see much wrong with the OP as I have been in that situation (well I haven't left marks) but I have been driven to distraction by a stubborn mare so can sympathise!! Hope the above helps if you find yourself in that situation again
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yep agree with all that has been said and I am not having a go at you....I was just letting you know my opion and everyone has a right to that. I do have better things to do on saturdays as well...
I have to say I still do not agree that your mare came away with stike marks...I do not believe it needed to be handled to that extent and if people do agree with that, then Im a little worried about what people think is right and wrong.
I have been taught the natural horseman way and it works for me personally much better...
Good luck with your mare, I do hope she behaves better next time and I do understand that at times sticks and whips need to be used to push the horse forward. What I dont agree with it whipping the horse hard enough to cause marks...
 
my mare used to be VERY nappy and i used to take the softly,softly approch with her without much difference then one day i got fed up and did put up a fight with her she has been listening to be ever since my mum also rides and said she hated it when i smacked her (i hated myself) she also tried the soft approch and izzy used to take the p we now have a warning system (god i sound like super nanny :$ ) voice and leg, sturn voice and hard leg, voice and tap on shoulder, voice and smack on bum we rearly ever get to the final stage and half the time no leg is needed at all just voice so it payed off. My mum was one of those "tickle" with the whip types and one day i said give her a hard smack and she hasn't taken the p ever since. I dont agree with extensive un nessesary beatings but i think i would have done the same thing and you know whats right for your horse! xxx
 
Personally i think u did the right thing.
She should do what you ask her to, and if she doesnt then she must be told!
Assuming you then praised her when she did go through, then no harm done.
Horses work on a praise and reprimand, infact so does every animal.
I bet she'l go through it next time. Wouldnt worry about the raised marks, they'l go down!
x
 
I've only read half the posts, but I think you did the right thing. My horse used to do the same, he is stubborn and its not fear, it can be down right naughtiness!! And when faced with 560kg of animal that wants to tell you what to do, you cant always be nice. My boy would just stand there, looking around, not scared, and a few light taps mean nothing for him...........sometimes you need to do a proper whack on the backside after warning - U ask once, tell twice and then the 3rd time you have to show u mean business. Sorry, but I love my horse, I love being alive more.bottom line.

I've always been told NOT to get off and lead as then the horse has won.
 
i gave my mare a little whack once i cant remember what for it was just a quick flick as a warning and her backside did the same thing, everyone on the yard thought it was halerious because i felt awful!
it wasnt sore it was just because it wasnt a stick it was like youve done a twig.

and yes most posts on here end up in rows i give up sometimes i think its a mixture of everyone "miss reading" i wouldnt worry about it

my mare is a napper... as and when she feels like it and like you iv had her 7 years and im fed up of getting off.
iv just bought a waggon and i go on all these country rides alone its great to get them out of napping because they dont know where they are to napp!
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If she had gotten off and lead the horse - she would have postively reinforced the behaviour which would encourage repeat behaviour - anybody can see that! Beating a horse is never an option but a few sharp smacks with a stick is sometimes in some situations needed. Though having read this post now - i would say I would have been just as stubborn and sat there til the sun went down until it went forward lol
 
I haven't read all the replies to this post.....but to people who were having a fit about leaving marks...some horses are very thin skinned, My mare reared with me once at a shopping trolley, I smacked her, and hard, she squeezed out a big fat welt, and made me feel really guilty, but this does happen to thin skinned horses....I believe that it can happen with some people spurs?
 
a good thumping at the right moment for the right reason never killed anyone! Personally, I would have given her double
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. Joking apart, you did nothing wrong and a few birch marks on the bum isnt the end of the world nor does it make you a bad person. Horses have to earn their keep and crossing a piddling stream without having a 'turn' is part of the deal ! Mairi.
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I wouldn't worry about the marks, I was schooling Lacey with a schooling whip once, and for the first time ever she was being lazy, so I have to say she got several sharp smacks with the schooling whip when she pointily ignored me 5 times when I asked her to canter, and they left a mark, but I certainly didn't lay into her, I assume the schooling whip must have stung, therefore making a mark.

Felt very guilty though...She forgave me though
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"the point i was making is that i wish she hadnt pushed me that far"

No, sorry, I don't buy that one. She sounds like a very nice, genuine mare. She went over the footbridge for you didn't she? Horses like that don't plant because they are pushing/testing you, call it what you will. Horses don't think like that. There main aim is to survive, and if they think something is threatening them that thought will overide any discipline instilled into them by humans. They don't plant, nap, or head for home because they want to play you up and give you a hard time, it's because they are really really bothered by something.

There we are, that's my twopence worth...
 
And this is why I ride with 30mm 2cm smooth rowel spurs - very rarely have to use the stick as can push them forward with these (rowels stop them digging in and causing damage).

I carry a whip at all times, mainly because I like having one to push and pull gates and remove flies.

However I agree with your course of action giving that she had been through there before. Having had my father been physically run over by youngsters, as then the horses go home on the road, I think its rather stupid to get off if they are not enclosed.
 
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"the point i was making is that i wish she hadnt pushed me that far"

No, sorry, I don't buy that one. She sounds like a very nice, genuine mare. She went over the footbridge for you didn't she? Horses like that don't plant because they are pushing/testing you, call it what you will. Horses don't think like that. There main aim is to survive, and if they think something is threatening them that thought will overide any discipline instilled into them by humans. They don't plant, nap, or head for home because they want to play you up and give you a hard time, it's because they are really really bothered by something.


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No, they bugger off home, or root to the spot, because AT THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT their lack of confidence in the circumstances is far greater than their confidence in the rider as a leader - so this balance in the relationship needs to be brought back into focus
 
Some people have taken the heading too literally I fear, I doubt she has more than a few raised marks and if she's thin skinned you don't have to whack that hard to mark with a thin switch like that.
Many years ago when we rode the riding school horses as a teenager no-one owned a whip and we used sticks off trees, it became a game to see who could choose the best switch! Willow is thin whippy and will leave a mark, had you chosen any other type I doubt you would have marked her.
I don't agree with getting off but re-inforcing your schooling by walking circles, halting and requesting forward movement again. Your horse was obviously worried by the ditch but should have gone forward, if she refused the best option is to be determined and insist she walked on which you did.
In future perhaps carry a whip or wear small spurs, you don't need to use either unless you have to.
For now stick some witch hazel or aloe on the marks (I bet they've gone anyway now) and perhaps re-inforce your forward movement with some more school work, but sometimes you have to whack to make them move.. Don't beat yourself up (ha ha) about it. I would far rather see someone insist their reluctant horse go forward than give up, how many times do we read on here my horse won't hack out alone posts?
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Watcher, exactly my point. The rider in this particular scenario seems to have taken the situation personally..'you will do what I tell you etc etc' without taking the horse's far sharper intincts into consideration. This sort of riders attitude worries me a lot. As horse owners and riders we ask a lot of our horses. Domesticated and willing as they are, they still retain all their prehistoric genes, hence they aren't very enchanted with the idea of being chased and eaten by a predator real or not.

Sorry, off on a tangent. The thing is I think the rider here should have got off and led the horse and reassued her that all was well.
 
Sorry, dont agree with doing this. To leave big stick marks on her backside isn't the way to go IMO. I would have just got off and calmly walked her over it. Us humans are NOT horses, we do no SEE what horses see or THINK like they do. She may have had a good reason for not moving on, who knows?! It sounds like you lost the plot and beat the crap out of her which obviously should not happen.

But yes, unfortunately all of us lose it a bit sometimes. Im sure all of us have done something in anger which we regret. That's life, we learn from it.

Take a whip next time but dont beat her up with it. No matter what the "horse-beaters - they say horse obeys" on this forum say, a whip is NOT to be abused! There is a BIG difference between a reminder and full on pelting.
 
I am sure the OP knows her horse well enough to have judged the situation correctly, and I see nothing wrong in what she has done. At the end of the day, yes riding is a mutual trust kinda thing, but I personally expect my horse to trust me and go forward when I ask him too. If he is genuinely scared, then I would encourage him to wok out the situation and the most of the time they will get on with it. If a horse isnt scared, but is just saying NO to what is asked, then sometimes they need enforced aids toget them thinking forward again. Getting off a scared hoerse on a hack IMO is dangerous, if they spin/run backwards, the chances of you having a loose horse are high. No thanks!!

Well done OP, quick thinking there me thinks!!
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Pleased marks have gone donw, and I bet you wont have a prob next time
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Wasn't the "last resort" - there were other things to try. She could have turned her in quick circles, this has confused a nappy horse I used to own into moving forward again. She could have simply got off and walked over it, the horse sounded calm enough to have done this with. She could have even tried turning the horse round and reversing over! (yes sounds odd, but it worked perfectly with one of mine when nothing else did. I simply reversed him past the scary object, turned him round again and carried on).

And yes, I do believe that leaving "a few stick marks on her bum" IS beating a horse! If you left any marks on a child then you'd be done for child abuse! I cant believe some people thing its ok to leave big marks on a horse
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And yes, I do believe that leaving "a few stick marks on her bum" IS beating a horse! If you left any marks on a child then you'd be done for child abuse! I cant believe some people thing its ok to leave big marks on a horse
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Hang on the OP may be exaggerating, being a lazy person I don't groom my horses bottom that well and with the change of season I can actually write on my horses bottom at the moment. Ok so I did have a good groom at it today, but pretty sure I am not the only lazy one out there.

If I even lightly tapped my horse I would leave a mark at the moment. I may have a go at writing the web address in his bottom to prove it?? (take it that HHO cannot ban bum advertising
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So was it raised weal marks or was it dust???

Also the child comment doesn't help.... wish people would beat their little brats!!!
 
have left hand print on horse before...due to the amount of dust, not due to a beating
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and more children should be reprimanded with a good smack
 
Thought I forgot one thing in my reply, the stick should be used behind your leg, not actually on it's bum....and I still say getting off is a total no-no... the next time the horse meets a problem it already knows that if it plays up enough the rider dismounts and leads it past.
I think calling anyone who uses a whip more than once a "horse beater" is a bit over the top? No-one is advocating beating a horse up, but several sharp reprimands behind the leg normally resolves the issue.
 
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