My horse.

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poiuytrewq

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My horse is a walking problem, I love the bones of him.
Briefly he's a 16.2 ID type. Now 19. I've had him 8 years. Was his groom before.
His life has been hunting and quite intense dressage, a lot (too much) of both. Always had soundness issues. Arthritis and undiagnosed (due to nothing ever showing and owners not paying for MRI).
He was being pts so I asked/begged to have him and with very careful care had 6 fairly good years hacking. He had odd bouts of lameness and a few joints injected/holidays but generally not too bad.
Two years ago he had issues with his tendon sheaths filling and having to be drained a few times. Around that time I felt he was not so happy in work so retired him.
My view has always been I will keep him as long as he's happy and field sound. I won't put him through any big vet treatments and I won't box rest. If either becomes needed it's time to pts. His mission in life is solely to be happy and graze.
Two weeks ago he came down suddenly with laminitis all round. My first thought was pts. However a new vet who doesn't know his history came out and was a bit stunned at the suggestion, I felt bad so we box rested. I said I'd try it until he showed any sign of distress. Two weeks on and to be fair he's fine. Sound walking round the box, starting to get a bit narky with his pony (in same box) but nothing bad.
This week I'm going to try him out in a woodchip area and try to reintroduce a bit of Turnout time.
Boxrest is the last thing he needs for his arthritis and being out is the last thing he needs for laminitis!
I think my question is am I doing the right thing by him? I'm worried he will keep getting it now (will test for cushings)
How good a quality of life can I give him now and how best to manage him in a way he can still enjoy the time he has left as this is priority.
I'd rather he has a good happy contented short time than a miserable next few years.
 
I agree with you about quality versus quantity of life. IME some vets want to 'do something' just because they think they can, rather than because it is in the best interests of the horse.

Definitely have him tested for Cushings and tbh, if the reading comes back reasonable/borderline, I would ask for the TRH test, as he could be said to be symptomatic. One of ours had 3 ACTH tests, all within range but increasing levels each time, we were concerned about some symptoms, so did TRH test and that reading was 8x the normal level. If he does need Prascend, our expereince is that it has worked wonders for 2 horses and live normal horse lives.
 
You are in the same situation I was a few years ago with my mare, she was retired after being lame on and off for 2 years she hated being in so I moved her 2 minutes down the road so she could live out, she had cushings and ems and I vowed if she got laminitis I would pts as I didn't want anymore box rest for her I still have the hole in her stable door as proof of how much she hated it, she did get laminitis I was all set to pts and she suddenly just seemed to want to fight it and turned a bit of a corner once the frog supports were on, 3 months on she was almost sound had shoes on I was about to start turning her out and she took a major turn for the worse the laminitis was back and she literally couldn't stand and I had her pts.

I look back and think I should have just let her go rather than have her last 3 months stuck in, the thing is I do really cherish those last month's as I lived and breathed that horse in that time I spent so much time with her, she was such a gentle soul it was easy to just sit with her and make a real fuss of her she loved it and for that time I am grateful but I do feel guilty for putting her through it, I am sitting here with tears pouring down my face it still really upsets me I question the decision I made.

I suppose I am just trying to say at the end of the day you have to do what you think is best it's not easy though and I think sometimes no matter what you do you end up feeling guilty about it.
 
You have to do what you think is right. You are clearly acting in his best interests. All I can tell you, is that a year down the line I deeply, deeply regret keeping mine going for so long. He was only 6 and my vet kept saying he could get him right. I suspect he probably could have but his quality of life would have been abysmal. He was very happy and perky through his treatment and the very first time I saw him look sad he was PTS the next day. But he spent 4 months on box rest slowly deteriorating.

If I had another one go down with it with no obvious cause and there was any sinking then I would PTS then and there. If there was a cause then it would depend what and what the quality of life would be afterwards. Its a godawful disease and once they've had it, its a waiting game until it kills them. You might be lucky and it might be 10yrs, or unlucky and it might be 10 days.

Only you can decide what to do, nothing you do is wrong if its in the horses best interests.
 
Tough isn't it. I keep him at home so it's nice to just run these things past other horsey people now and then!
I don't think now is the time but am keen not see him suffer. He's done well being in for two weeks! Very unexpected
Thankyou for the opinions :)
 
You must know him inside out. I am sure you will know when it is time. My son a little old pony who had EMS and kept getting lami. I had her PTS when it came that she could never go out in a field again, but could be kept sound living in a concrete pen. She was always happy but I decided that no grass or turnout is no life for a pony. Your boy is not there yet.
 
Personally I'd want to understand the reason for the lami as a first step. You obviously care for your boy a lot and I've no doubt you're worried sick at the moment. But actually all he needs right now is for you to be your normal clear thinking self. You've given him far more, and probably far better life than his previous owners by getting the right info and managing correctly. This is just another thing for you to get the info about, make a clear decision on (which obviously you can change when you see how he does) and do what you think best.

I guess what I'm saying is carry on, try not to over think, get the info and then make the call
xx
 
poiuytrewq said:
Tough isn't it. I keep him at home so it's nice to just run these things past other horsey people now and then!
I don't think now is the time but am keen not see him suffer. He's done well being in for two weeks! Very unexpected
Thankyou for the opinions :)
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I keep my horses at home it's lovely but when you have one that's ill it is very stressful because your with them so much more it's like you never really get any relief from it, it sounds like your horse is comfortable at the moment hopefully it's a slight bout of laminitis and you caught it early, all you can do is test for cushings and if it's positive prascend will help get on top of it, please keep us posted on how his doing x
 
Pinkvboots said:
I keep my horses at home it's lovely but when you have one that's ill it is very stressful because your with them so much more it's like you never really get any relief from it, it sounds like your horse is comfortable at the moment hopefully it's a slight bout of laminitis and you caught it early, all you can do is test for cushings and if it's positive prascend will help get on top of it, please keep us posted on how his doing x
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Thankyou so much!
Yes it's amazing having them so close. Unfortunately this horse is actually not at home right now as I'd been lucky enough to borrow some grazing over summer! Luckily they had a stable empty and so he's in that for now as of course I couldn't move him.
I hope to box him home this week.

I'm with him at the moment as there are so many fireworks going off, he's not batting an eyelid :) when he was ridden a crisp bag was enough to send him into over drive. I'll never understand what go's on in his head ;)
 
I could pretty much have written your post.
I had a very nice horse that I adored. He was a freebie, given to me as a 6yo.
By around the age of 13 I called time on trying to keep him riding sound and retired him to grass.
At 15 he was diagnosed with cushings.
He was maintained on prascend living out and I always said the day he couldn't do that was the day he went to horsey heaven.
In the spring of his 19th year he came down with laminitis, it was 3 months after I'd moved to a new area and so didn't have that long standing relationship with a trusted vet.
Junior female vet arrives and was utterly horrified that I said I thought PTS for mild laminitis. My old vet would never have questioned my call.
So I was guilt tripped into giving him a chance. That summer he was xrayed, shod, box rested followed starvation paddock. Prascend and bute doubled.
He went through the winter out in herd acreage, but came into spring quite skinny.
Spring grass came through. He got laminitis. I called the hunt who came out immediately and I have no regrets.
 
Another one who's had a one pts when the pony was sound. Was already living on a bark chip area with soaked hay, metformin and lami friendly feed, but was even starting to struggle with these and getting relapses so I decided that I wasn't going to put her through another box rest with limited chance to be happy afterwards, so I had pts when sound and happy. I don't regret it. I have my fingers crossed that he surprises you and recovers well!
 
If it was a young horse that would be one thing but a horse with all these issues and already retired I can’t really see what benefit it is to the horse to be box rested so it can hopefully then lead a very restricted life for another god knows how long until it has another attack.

At that point I would have to ask myself why I was doing it, for the horse or for myself because I couldn’t face the alternatives.

For me personally, my horses have to live out with adlib forage and be ridden because this means they are completely content with life. They aren’t hungry, or restricted and they also aren’t fat. If they couldn’t have those things I would have to seriously consider what their quality of life was. I know not everyone can or wants to keep there horses like that and I’m not suggesting they should but we all have our own ideas of what is acceptable for our horses so I think you just have to go with your gut. Fine for the vet to be judgmental but it’s not the vet who is struggling on daily to look after the horse!
 
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Leo Walker said:
You have to do what you think is right. You are clearly acting in his best interests. All I can tell you, is that a year down the line I deeply, deeply regret keeping mine going for so long. He was only 6 and my vet kept saying he could get him right. I suspect he probably could have but his quality of life would have been abysmal. He was very happy and perky through his treatment and the very first time I saw him look sad he was PTS the next day. But he spent 4 months on box rest slowly deteriorating.

If I had another one go down with it with no obvious cause and there was any sinking then I would PTS then and there. If there was a cause then it would depend what and what the quality of life would be afterwards. Its a godawful disease and once they've had it, its a waiting game until it kills them. You might be lucky and it might be 10yrs, or unlucky and it might be 10 days.

Only you can decide what to do, nothing you do is wrong if its in the horses best interests.
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What a lovely reply to the OP who is going through a very upsetting time with her horse. I hope your thoughtful words bring her comfort.
 
Its a tough one.

In your shoes I know what I would do, in all honesty if he comes through the lami what would his quality of life be? horrible situation for you :( vet not making things easier by making you feel guilty.

I could face a similar situation, Horse has been retired since May with advanced hock arthritis, I've cancelled her insurance and have told myself that if she comes down with any serious/injury she will be PTS.
 
Can you not restrict the grazing by strip grazing, or by putting a muzzle on him? Maybe you could turn out for just a couple of hours and then try mixing that with turning him out on a surface?
 
I'm going to bring him home on Wednesday. I plan to just wing it for now and see how he go's. I'll re-introduce grazing slowly. I won't use a muzzle as I did once, years ago muzzle him and he was incredibly distressed. I'm not against muzzles and use them for my ponies but not for this horse. Yes I can strip graze and had set up a track system last year which I may redo.
He's a happy alert horse at the moment but I have said to the vet I want him outside eating grass and she thinks that if the cushings test is positive and he's treated that he will be fine with no special care.... I'm not 100% convinced this is true but he's not ready to go just yet I'm sure. If he gets another bout of lami he will go that day. I'm not messing about with this and getting into the "just a bit longer" thing.
I once pts a bit too soon and still feel guilty about it sometimes. Obviously I have no idea what was round the corner for that horse, I might have saved him suffering, I might not. It's a fine line to draw.
 
Id definately get him tested for cushings. If he has it and goes onto Prascend then they can be perfectly happy for a few years. I had my very first pony PTS last year after he was on prascend for a good 8 years or so and had a perfectly nice life living out on restricted grazing, he was never stabled. I personally would certainly try it in the first instance. However, I had a shetland who tested postitive for cushings as well a few years ago and despite playing around with her prascend we just couldnt get it right for her, too little and she'd get laminitis straight away and if we increased it (obviously on full discussion with vet) then she ended up with bad diarrhea. We tried to get the dose right for a few weeks but she was so unhappy we had to make the decision with her. So it doesnt work for all.
 
poiuytrewq said:
I'm going to bring him home on Wednesday. I plan to just wing it for now and see how he go's. I'll re-introduce grazing slowly. I won't use a muzzle as I did once, years ago muzzle him and he was incredibly distressed. I'm not against muzzles and use them for my ponies but not for this horse. Yes I can strip graze and had set up a track system last year which I may redo.
He's a happy alert horse at the moment but I have said to the vet I want him outside eating grass and she thinks that if the cushings test is positive and he's treated that he will be fine with no special care.... I'm not 100% convinced this is true but he's not ready to go just yet I'm sure. If he gets another bout of lami he will go that day. I'm not messing about with this and getting into the "just a bit longer" thing.
I once pts a bit too soon and still feel guilty about it sometimes. Obviously I have no idea what was round the corner for that horse, I might have saved him suffering, I might not. It's a fine line to draw.
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Definitely test for cushings - if positive closely manage the horse until levels are down then you should be okay to relax a bit, until the disease progresses, which it will. Mine had a good additional 4 years on unrestricted 24/7 grazing on just 1 tablet a day until things caught up with him.
 
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