My Mare is savaging foal - any experiences?

[GGRider]

Has anyone had experience of a savage mare coming good and reaccepting her foal? Read on for details.....

After 3 days of seemingly normal maternal bonding and behaviour, our maiden mare turned on her foal the first day we put them out together in the field. He came in covered in bite marks and she went for him in the stable with jaws wide open. A horrid sight although she could have done far worse.

Despite earlier vet intervention to get sufficient colostrum in, they had been fine together until day 4.

We have tried them together again this time with our other broodmare and foal and after about a calm 10mins it happened again.

The last 2 days during this rejecting behaviour, she has been happy for him to feed although as a precaution we have had to tie her up. When untied for short periods, they have been fine in the stable even showing some protective behaviour.

We are consulting every expert (NFB have been brilliant) we can find to see if we still have hope of keeping them together. Today is the last chance before we arrange for a foster mum.

It is very hard to know what is best.

 

[*hic*]

Have you posted this in Breeding?

 

[Patterdale]

Not experienced this with mares, but have many many times with sheep.
With a ewe in this situation I'd tie her up inside for a few days, let her go only under supervision for ten mins at a time and at the first sign of her knocking the baby tie her straight back up again.
I wouldn't let her out into an open field for some time - make a smaller pen first and each time she knocks tie her up again.

Works with sheep and cattle, but someone who's experienced it in mares beforehand well be along soon

I do know though that you need to nip this in the bud NOW rather than let it fester.

 

[Goldenstar]

Why don't you PM spring feather and Janet George in case they don't see this .
SF will be a asleep now I think ( she's in Canada ) .

 

[Dry Rot]

Another one who has seen this in sheep. I also occasionally post about "critical periods" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period) without getting much response! A pity as I think these could be useful in our understanding of training horses and there is certainly a very important one at foaling.

Some research has been done into the brief critical period after a herd animal is born. I read a paper about this some time ago. The process is surprisingly complicated and if the sequence is broken or interfered with, things can go badly wrong. The process seems to be designed (by Nature) to ensure that young animals are up and on their feet and following the herd as quickly as possible. If something goes wrong, Nature intervenes by at least preserving the mother who can survive and go on the rear another youngsters (foal, fawn, calf, or whatever) while the newly born is left to feed the predators.

In sheep, the process starts before birth with the ewe singling out a spot for the birth which is marked by scraping and urination. As soon as the lamb is born, the ewe starts to lick it clean and may even eat part of the after birth. The licking establishes a bond and simulates the lamb to breath and move. Both lamb and ewe will bleat continuously, so further cementing the bond. Scent from a gland on the ewe's udder stimulates the lamb to move towards the teat. The ewe will nudge the lamb's backside to further stimulate progress towards the udder. And so on. It is, as I've said, a complicated process. Part of the sequence includes the lamb being stimulated to suck.

If the sequence is broken, various things can happen. As in this case, the ewe (mare) rejects the lamb (foal). Sometimes, a lamb that is fed from a bottle becomes hooked (imprinted) on that and can never learn to suck the ewe, or at least only with difficulty. Shepherds refer to such lambs as "stupid". But I understand from my equine vets that this part of the imprinting process is not as strong in horses. Shepherds get around that problem by inserting a tube down the oesophagus and feeding the lamb through that. That removes the likelihood of the lamb becoming imprinted on the artificial method of feeding milk (bottle and rubber teat). Foals cannot be tube fed except through the nose which (they tell me!) is a job for the vet. Also, they don't seem to be as susceptible as sheep to imprinting on the bottle.

So, what to do? I have no experience of mares rejecting foals but plenty of experience of ewes rejecting lambs. What we do with sheep is try to muddle the ewe's recognition processes so it doesn't recognise the lamb. We also stimulate the maternal instincts. I can think of no reason why this shouldn't work with horses -- and it will cost nothing to try. To confuse the ewe over the identity of the lamb, we will squirt some cheap perfume or deodorant up the ewe's nostrils so she cannot smell the lamb and we will put the ewe in "stocks" so she cannot attack it. I'm told that a ewe will accept a lamb once its own milk has been digested and emerged at the other end as faeces, but I can't confirm that. We might also bring the farm dog near the ewe to simulate it's natural reaction to protect it's young.

I'm afraid that is the limit of my knowledge but hopefully it will be of some use. Good luck. One last thing, if you do have to hand rear the foal, I believe it is important to keep it close to it's mother as possible even though she is rejecting it. Obviously, this has to be done without the mare being able to harm the foal, but sight and scent will be important for both. The one mare of mine that had a weakly foal was very easy to milk by hand even out in the field to the extent that after a day or so I did not even bother to tie her up! She was milked after I had done my best to try to get the foal to suck, which she did start to do after a few days. But then she had not been rejected, she was just too weak to get to the udder without assistance.

 

[onlytheponely]

I am so sorry that you are going through this, it's incredibly upsetting to witness.

I have seen this on a couple of occasions, both Arab maiden mares and both mares killed their foals within a week of foaling after a seemingly normal bonding over the first couple of days. Please don't put the foal at risk if intervening will save it's life. Being savaged by a mare is an absolutely terrible way for a young life to end.

Did your mare foal alone or with people there? Also has the foal been over-handled by humans?

 

[Spring Feather]

Oh this is a really scary scenario, and one which every breeder worries about with a maiden mare. A lot has to do with the birthing. Were you there and how did it go? Was it textbook or were there problems foaling? Was the mare allowed to sniff the afterbirth and lick her foal and go through all the normal motions unhindered? Have you had the foal checked to make sure all is well with him? Have you had the mare checked to make sure she in herself is in good shape and that she doesn't have mastitis? There is a thought that sometimes the mare's progesterone drops very low after foaling and sometimes this needs balancing in order for her to resume maternal feelings towards the foal. I see you've tried her out with another mare and foal, sometimes that's all it takes for the maternalness to kick in, but in your case it hasn't worked either. You say the mare needed restraining for the foal to first suckle, what method was used? Sedation? And if so, for how long?

It is always best if the real mother can raise her foal and it's something I'd persevere with for about a week but if no bond develops and the mother is still trying to kill the foal at this stage then I think you have to look for alternatives. If she were mine; I have partitions which are open all the way to the floor so I could put the mare in one stable with the foal in the next one and she can sniff and smell her youngster at any time. I would take the mare into the foals stable to feed every hour or so, supervised obviously with the mare held while the foal suckles. Then take the mare out and put her back in the adjoining stable. After a few days I'd put them back together again to see if there is any improvement, if not then I think you would need to consider a nurse mare, or bucket feeding the foal.

I had a near miss this year with a maiden. She had a very traumatic delivery and there were signs early on that she may reject the foal. We sedated her in order for the foal to suckle. Every feed thereafter we supervised. I did have to tell the mother off a few times and take a bit of a heavy(ish) hand with her (not smacking but raising my voice to her to get her to listen to me). After a couple of days she was absolutely fine and accepted her foal and is proving to be a very nice mother to him. One of my other mares would have adopted him so I was lucky in that respect, but it was still not what I wanted as the ultimate conclusion.

Mares and newborns do take a week or so to really recognise each other so I would hang in there a little while longer and if no progress then I think you have to accept it's not going to happen and make alternative arrangements.

 

[STRIKER]

I find it strange how many new foal owners keep them locked up, they need to be out in the field movement is what makes their legs strong. It would also be able to try and get away from her and she would have other things to occupy her by being out instead of locked up in a stable. Hope she accepts the baby, poor thing

 

[Alliya]

My maiden mare tried to reject her foal one min ok next booted filly across stable it was due to retained afterbirth she spent 4 days at liphook the afterbirth came away after2 days and a lot of hard work and determination I collected a mare and foal and never looked back she went on to have 2 more foals and has proved to be the best mum with them all

I do hope your mare and foal are ok and you can sort them out

 

[Patterdale]

I find it strange how many new foal owners keep them locked up, they need to be out in the field movement is what makes their legs strong. It would also be able to try and get away from her and she would have other things to occupy her by being out instead of locked up in a stable. Hope she accepts the baby, poor thing

It's because they usually need the bonding time, especially for the first few days. Turning any newly birthed animal out too early can be asking for trouble. Yes, many will be fine, but some, as seen here, won't.

 

[STRIKER]

We have approx 8 foals born every year on the farm some are born out in the field and thats where they stay, some are foaled in a box but turned out the very next day, boss who is a vet hates them being stabled, yes i agree there ar some circumstances that require, but there are other threads where the foalie is stabled and mom and foal are fine

 

[Spring Feather]

We have approx 8 foals born every year on the farm some are born out in the field and thats where they stay, some are foaled in a box but turned out the very next day, boss who is a vet hates them being stabled, yes i agree there ar some circumstances that require, but there are other threads where the foalie is stabled and mom and foal are fine

Yes, as do we. However a maiden mare is an unknown quantity and I think the OP has done the right thing by keeping the mare and foal alone together in the stable for a little longer than is usual. I certainly don't think this is the reason the mare is rejecting the foal so it's an irrelevancy whether OP kept them in or let them out. I strongly suspect something went amiss at the birthing. There are particular steps that need to be followed for a good bond to develop. If one of those steps isn't right, or has been missed, then this can be the outcome. This is why it's very important to be at the birth so that you know everything that went on, and it's why I never miss birthings.

 

[STRIKER]

Thanks springfeather, so what happens with those born out in fields with no human intervention or wud you say its just luck of the draw if its a good bonding or not, just curious not looking for an argy

 

[Spring Feather]

Thanks springfeather, so what happens with those born out in fields with no human intervention or wud you say its just luck of the draw if its a good bonding or not, just curious not looking for an argy

The situation above is really quite rare in the grand scheme of things. We don't know as yet whether this mare was attended at her delivery, so to draw any conclusions as to whether human intervention is the cause, it a bit premature. I'd say it's usually not a reason for the majority of rejections unless the humans are way over the top with this imprinting stuff. With a mare foaling out in the field, a maiden will always be an unknown quantity, but it's the delivery process and the initial stages which need to form the pattern for good bonding. Put it this way, whatever happened for this mare to react like this, I don't think it would have made any difference whether she foaled outside or inside, both being unattended I mean. If she were attended, either out or in, then I would suggest that the attendant would have noted foaling issues immediately.

 

[Flora]

My youngster is nearly 2 and I had to do as Spring Feather suggested, and had a partition between the two. When my foaling alarm rang to tell me my maiden mare was foaling, I went out to find her standing with her head out of the stable and I thought it was a false alarm until she turned round and the foal was hanging half out. Phoned my boss, who was a vet and he told me to pull him out, which I did, and I turned the mare round to have a sniff at the foal and she seemed ok. Next morning, foal suckled with a bit of kicking from mum but all seemed ok. That night,however, any time the foal went near her, she turned on him with her teeth and when he was lying down she would double barrel him. It wasnt nice to see. I ended up holding her for him to suckle and had a partition to separate them. When they were together in the stable he would stand in the corner out of her way , but out in the field she was fine with him.
I ended up weaning him really early as she was really nasty to him and I wasnt taking any chances.
Fingers crossed you get them sorted out soon and no one gets hurt.

 

[honetpot]

I had a maiden mare foal a couple of years ago luckily with no problems. She foaled indoors, I had no sign she was going to foal and the foal was stood there in the stable in the morning. I think they do need leaving alone to bond fully with as little people with them as possible, a lot of places everyone and their mother has to go an look at the foal. I turned mine out in a small paddock on her own, then a paddock then next to my geldings so by 3 months she was glad that there was something else to amuse it and they were turned out all together.
I used to work on a pony stud where most foaled outside with no problems but I have been somewhere were a foal drowned in a ditch, it was a young mare so we think she was protecting it from the rest of the herd.

 

[STRIKER]

So she was fine in the field, i wud have thought being in the field natural instinct to protect the foal would take over, whereas the box is her territory, just my opinion

 

[madlady]

Thanks springfeather, so what happens with those born out in fields with no human intervention or wud you say its just luck of the draw if its a good bonding or not, just curious not looking for an argy

Unattended field births scare me TBH - there is so much that can go wrong, not just with the foaling (retained placenta, foal getting stuck, mare lying too near to fencing etc etc) but then if there are other mares in the field they can try to 'steal' the foal or intervene in the bonding process.

At the stud we always try to have them foal inside (we have a couple of huge foaling boxes that are more like small barns really) where we have camera's and can watch from a distance just in case. Mares that are due to foal we try to keep in the small individual paddocks that are near to the house just in case they decide to foal early or without giving us any signs.

OP we have had to separate a mare and foal this year - mare was a maiden and she did have a difficult time with the foaling, she didn't want anything to do with it for the first 12 hours but we did manage to milk her off and eventually encouraged her to take the foal, which she did, 3 days later she was kicking and biting so we separated them and put them in next door stables and held the mare while we brought the foal to feed, she begrudgingly accepted foal back but she isn't being the best of Mum's - she is allowing feeding but she isn't particularly protective so we are keeping a very close eye on them at the moment. They are out with another mare and foal and the other mare is quite happily keeping an eye on both foals and doesn't chase the one that isn't hers away but if needs be we will separate them permanently if the situation gets any worse.

 

[Flora]

In the field she didnt try to bite or kick but she was never a maternal mare. The foal would wander away and she couldnt care less, even when I put another horse in to see if that would bring out the maternal instinct she didnt bother.
I have never had this problem with any of my other mares and foals but luckily, he was the last foal that I am breeding so I wont have to go through it all again!

 

[Dry Rot]

I have Highlands and breed two or three foals a year. All the mares are friendly and usually come to call. They foal in the field and as soon as they have foaled, there is a big change in behaviour! They mostly become very foal proud and will move off, with the foal on the far side, as soon as they hear the gate latch click. The foals are not handled until weaning for this reason. I see no point in interfering if the mare is not keen on the idea.

Last year I left the pregnant mares in the (females only) herd but watched their behaviour. Some of the young fillies were very interested. Some older mares were clearly on guard duty. Some mares were very protective if any other pony came too close and I think one or two of the fillies would have liked to have stolen a foal, but mum would not allow that. The experiment worked well and I will be doing it again -- with one change. All the foals from one mare have turned out to be mane/tail chewers and they taught other foals the habit. That particular mare and her foal will be kept separate this year!

 

[GGRider]

I find it strange how many new foal owners keep them locked up, they need to be out in the field movement is what makes their legs strong. It would also be able to try and get away from her and she would have other things to occupy her by being out instead of locked up in a stable. Hope she accepts the baby, poor thing

Hi Striker
Of course, turnout is ideal. I did not go into all the detail but we could not turn them out for the first few days due to him being a mild 'dummy' foal with suckling problems and he had to have plasma feeds via stomach tube and then an IV drip. Soon as he had learned to suckle unassisted (which she was fine with) we turned them out at this is when the problem occurred. We are still hopeful that they will click.

 

[Spring Feather]

I hope that everything everyone else who took the time to write on your thread may be of help to you.

 

[GGRider]

Update: We tried again to get them out together in field and things are a little more positive. We grazed the mare in hand whilst foalie had a good bounce around and then eventually let her go too. There was a bit of scowling but they both got best part of an hour out without a real nasty incident and she allowed him to feed.

We noticed she was in season already (after 4 days) and suspect the behaviour may be linked. We are going to preserve with great care for a few more days. Our vet will be back (again) to re-inspect the pair and see if we can medicate her to be more maternal. So hope to see him turned out with our other foal who is desperate for a play mate.

 

[Fides]

It could be to do with so much early intervention but sounds like she is settling down. Mares will come into foal 4-5 days after delivery and are VERY fertile - this is completely normal and unlikely to have been the cause for her issues. It's more likely that the bonding was interrupted due to the foal being handled so much so early (even though it was necessary). Keep persisting - you will get there

 

[hayinamanger]

If you turn the mare and foal out with other horses, there is a very strong probability that her maternal instinct will make her protect the foal.

 

[Spring Feather]

Update: We tried again to get them out together in field and things are a little more positive. We grazed the mare in hand whilst foalie had a good bounce around and then eventually let her go too. There was a bit of scowling but they both got best part of an hour out without a real nasty incident and she allowed him to feed.

We noticed she was in season already (after 4 days) and suspect the behaviour may be linked. We are going to preserve with great care for a few more days. Our vet will be back (again) to re-inspect the pair and see if we can medicate her to be more maternal. So hope to see him turned out with our other foal who is desperate for a play mate.

Okay that is very early for her to be having her foal heat. Did she cleanse properly and in a timely manner after birthing? Has vet checked to see that she is clean inside and doesn't have infection?

Great news that she is behaving better in hand though, perhaps you will have to persevere with this a little longer.

 

[GGRider]

I find it strange how many new foal owners keep them locked up, they need to be out in the field movement is what makes their legs strong. It would also be able to try and get away from her and she would have other things to occupy her by being out instead of locked up in a stable. Hope she accepts the baby, poor thing

Hi Striker - you don't know the full story. We had no choice but to keep them in for the foal needed our and veterinarian help to suckle. As soon as he was able to feed unassisted and the bond was good, we turned out. Only then did it go wrong possibly due to the mare coming into season very early.

 

[GGRider]

If you turn the mare and foal out with other horses, there is a very strong probability that her maternal instinct will make her protect the foal.

Tried that - made her more stressed and aggressive to him.

 

[GGRider]

Another oddity is the speed at which she passed placenta. Foaling was fairly standard but she stood up and placenta dropped within a couple of minutes. I wondered if cord had become detached early during foaling which would explain why baby was born a bit clueless. We saw the whole thing on CCTV and in person but kept clear as much as poss. We gave it 3 hours from birth and he still had not found the udder and instead was sucking the wall. Thank god for CCTV - a worthwhile investment as we are still able to monitor them all night.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Hope things improve for you. It is stressful enough without these dreadful problems. CCTV certainly is worth the investment it saved our foal a few years ago.