My mare on her due date...

classic_astra

classic_astra

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today is her due date and so far no signs of anything going on! had the tinest bit of wax on one teat you've ever seen today very clear though.

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She looks like she's a few days off yet - although I'd still watch like a hawk - they are sooo sneaky! I'd move her into your foaling paddock now during the day though just incase she does foal, obviously you'll have her in at night so you can watch her, but you wouldn't want a foal caught up in all that electric string, those jumps or for her to foal down in all that mud!! - foals are accident magnets and electric tape and foals just don't go together - especially the string kind as they can't see it.
 
Alexart said:
She looks like she's a few days off yet - although I'd still watch like a hawk - they are sooo sneaky! I'd move her into your foaling paddock now during the day though just incase she does foal, obviously you'll have her in at night so you can watch her, but you wouldn't want a foal caught up in all that electric string, those jumps or for her to foal down in all that mud!! - foals are accident magnets and electric tape and foals just don't go together - especially the string kind as they can't see it.
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i dont have a foaling paddock, or any stables. the electric tape is the thickest rope you can get (not tape) in 95% of the field. the field is 10 acres so there is no way i could afford to fence off in post and rail. it was either that or sheep fencing, so i opted for the electric. i cant let them have the run of the field as my mums cob hates other horses so the girls are seperate from the boys. in her field she has another mare due to foal roughly the same time, and a little welsh mare who has foaled before, so a nice little group, and they all get on well. as for the mud, its only round the bit where they have their dinner the rest of the field is lovely and flat. :)
 
Aww she's gorgeous, what breed is she? Reminds me of my brother's pony but we don't know her breeding.

Fingers crossed everything goes well when the time comes! :D
 
Hiya, Your mare looks lovely and has a nice 'pointy' bump - usually a sign of nearing foaling!

Just a word of warning to back up the other poster - I had a foal caught up in electric fencing - the same string type that you have - I used it as I thought it was better than tape as it doesn't flap and stays where you put it BUT it doesn't break!! My foal had it wrapped tightly around her back leg around her cannon and it cut throught to the tendon, she spent 2 weeks in the vet hospital and then had 12 weeks on box rest with a rather large dressing. Hind sight is easy and I thought it would be OK as I only had about 30m of electric fencing up and I made sure it was always on.

Please, please if you have to use it (and I do understand its not always possible not to) then swap for the tape as it will at least break if a foal does get caught up in it.

Sorry - lecture over - I would just hate anyone to go through the same as we did (and the cost!!!!)

Good Luck with foaling :D
 
though this stuff does break? my mare has gone through it a few times while i was charging battery and it didnt break everytime. im just hoping that the foal gets a shock or 2 off it so it stays away from it, had 2 foals in there last year and seemed to be fine. im hoping to gradually replace it with proper fencing but i had to fence them off quickly and that was the only stuff that was available at the time. i appreciate the advice and experience though! will definately take it into consideration!
 
You really need the proper facilities if you are even thinking of breeding, it's an expensive hobby! - good fencing is the most basic essential as is a stable, what if something goes wrong or the weather turns bad and they need shelter, or box rest for any reason - am assuming then they were bought in foal and it wasn't planned.

I'd find someone that can rent you a couple of stables or send her to somewhere nearby that has the proper facilities to have foals, along with your other in foal mare, then I'd go out and get the sheep fencing - it will be cheaper than vet bills - and far better than string, that string won't break - maybe an adult horse might be able to but certainly not a foal, when foals get a shock off electric they tend to run forward not backwards as their co-ordination isn't great.
If you can't afford the sheep fencing the only other option would be the thickest electric tape or even the orange pig netting, have 4 strands of the tape to try and make it as visible as possible, and so they can't roll under it too - and don't turn it on. We had a friend that had a cob mare and foal - she foaled next to the electric tape and it got pushed under it - needless to say mare and foal panicked, both got badly injured when the tape got wrapped round their legs cost heaps in vet bills and weeks on box rest, the foal nearly severed 2 of its tendons and just missed the main artery in its back leg - it's the same if not worse than having barbed wire.
 
Can I just slip in here....

I have helped breed native ponies (shetlands) and all have foaled happily in the field, as one with nature :p, and we haven't had any casualties or unfortunate accidents resulting in massive vets bills/stable rest.

Maybe it's more with the finer/fiery breeds (however you wanna put it) as in TBs, Arabs, Warmbloods, that will have - for want of a better word - clumsier & thinner skinned foals perhaps, so statistically speaking already have a higher chance of injuring themselves? :confused: I could be talking complete waffle. I don't know. :o

It's just that classic_astra's mare is a native X so maybe herself and her foal would cope better?

Also take into consideration that classic_astra's field may not be close to any stables/foaling boxes which she could hire and that travelling her mare might upset her etc.

Not trying to take sides here, but just trying to help see from another 'point of view' as it were.

I wish you the very best of luck with the foaling and whether it be as natural as possible or you decide to hire out a stable; as long as the mare's happy and the foal is born healthy than I guess that's what matters most.
 
I do agree that there is usually no problem foaling outside as long as you have access to light if needed (a good torch or two on standby are as good as anything!!) My comments where by no means a critism of the OP

I just wanted to warn OP re rope type electric fencing. My foal that was injured is a cob x so a native breed and by no means a lightweight but that type of fencing doesn't break with a foal and I would seriously hate the same thing to happen to anyone else - my foal was 5 months old and quite big at the time of the accident too and the vets bill ended up in excess of £2000.

Mares will foal where they feel safe - whether that is in the boggiest part of the field or in a corner under the electric fence but so long as OP stays alert and it sounds like she is (sorry for talking about you!!) then it shouldn't matter.

Foals are notorious for finding trouble - friends 2 day old colt jumped out of the stable (4' door) and slashed under his belly and removed a lot of skin from his back legs - scared for life sadly. So it would seem that stables aren't necesarily safe places for mares and foals either!!

Good luck to OP and let us know how your girl is doing :D
 
OK definitely sounds so much easier if you just don't go into breeding :D Hahah! Especially since you've known of foals in fields and stables that have managed to injure themselves! What are they like?! Honestly, I dunno! Cheeky.

Sorry I hope I didn't sound pushy or argumentative. :o Just found it interesting that you both said straight away about the field-state. If that makes sense?:confused: I suppose it just shows that quite a few foals have got themselves injured with the electric tape/rope.
 
i do understand completely what your saying, but when i was doing my fencing i asked alot of people for advice about fencing and was told this was probably the best options under the circumstances. i can see pro's and cons of every sort of fencing, and including stabling foals. i had 2 foals born and grown up in the same field last year with no problems, they got a shock off the fence (on low setting) and didnt go near it again. so assumed it would be the same and ok for this year. bit late now in her gestation to be thinking of changing it as she is due to drop any day now!

i do have access to a stable or 2 in my land ladies side if needed, and she has already put bedding in and its ready if i need it. but i would like to keep it as natural as possible. i dont make a habit of breeding, last years 2 colts the mares were bought in foal. but these two, the black mare was put in foal by myself, and the ginger mare i bought in foal.
 
I have followed this post with interest. I bought a mare unexpectedly in foal and found myself having to make do. I have electric thick tape and think it's breaking weight is 200 kg so therefore it wouldn't break for a foal? It is to stop the foal falling into the ditch so going on all your advice should I let the foal take it's chances and remove the tape or hope it just keeps clear of the tape? So far no accidents but the foal is only 4 weeks old and just been turned out together with it's mother and now my little naughty 3 yr old gelding and they are partaking in a lot of hooning at the moment!!

The ditch is only about 2 foot deep at it's deepest and a hedge is on the other side but I would like to avoid any accidents if poss!

Secondly my mare foaled outside and even with all that rain they seem to be doing well although mine do have a field shelter and the mare is clever enough to use it. Does your mare have any form of shelter if the weather is bad again OP ?

Good luck and I hope it all goes well.
 
the field is between 2 woods, so the back half of her field is quite sheltered, and a row of trees up the middle, if it turns bad i can use the stables its no problem, as i know foals dont have waterproof coats for a week or so, so will be extra aware!
 
Yep, thats foals for you - I think they are born with a self distruct button!!

Although I stable mine to foal it is really only for my convienience! As long as you mares have access to shelter, which I know they do as you have trees, then there is no problem foaling out - in fact I believe it is more hygienic than in a stable no matter how much we clean them!!

I just like to be able to watch mine on camera from the comfort of my bed :D:D and again for me it's easier to handle foals in a small space.

Please don't think I was critizising (sp) just trying to pass on the knowledge I have of that type of fencing from personal experience.

Good Luck with your foaling :)
 
its ok dont worry! im just trying to do the best with what ive got access too! if i could afford post and rail fencing, stables in my half, and everything else i would! but the fact is i cant, but dont worry i dont take offence at anything said, they are checked at least 4/5 times a day by 3 different people,, and i know it only takes a split second for an accident but i suppose it can happen at any time and any place regardless of circumstances!
 
I got back to this thread this morning after finding that my annoyance at Alexart's rather condescending comments about your setup had not gone away overnight. I am thankful that others have come to your "rescue" in the meantime.

Alexart, I do wonder how all those forest-bred New Forest ponies manage to give birth, let alone stay alive any length of time with all those scruffy bramble bushes and trees and the half fallen down wire fence between them and the dual carriageway... What about all the gypsy ponies giving birth whilst tethered or knee deep in a bog. The "irresponsible breeding" issue is not created by the average hobby breeder (a category that includes Classic_astra, I expect, and myself, certainly), who will do the best for their horses and no doubt find a very good home for them when/if the time comes. The big breeders and the racing industry, with their post & railed paddocks and huge foaling boxes are the ones who produce so much "wastage" (who they will sell to anyone at any price) in their quest to produce the next top SJ or Grand National winner. Also, the travelling community often bring a wider welfare issue to the table.

I have bred horses for 15 years, some have foaled out, some have foaled in, all have been brought up in less than perfect conditions, electric fencing, ditches, no stables. Of course, I take all the precautions I can, but given the circumstances, it is not often perfect, but touch wood so far I have never had any accidents. Accidents do happen, I know, but they will, whatever precautions one takes. I know one (adult) horse who broke a leg having a hooly in a perfectly flat post & railed paddock & I know several who have been injured in the same circumstances. I also know a foal who hanged himself with his foal slip on a post of a perfectly post & railed paddock. And I personally have had several foals (none of them level-headed natives!) in electric fenced paddocks who never injured themselves!

Each to their own, I say... and not having the "proper" facilities does not make you unfit to breed - people who feel you have to be part of some sort of elite to be a fit horse owner/breeder really do make me mad - so apologies for the rant :o

Beatrice5, I would keep the electric fence, I personnally think (and this is my opinion only) it is less dangerous than the ditch at the moment - I personally would just make it 4 strands so that it is very visible and there is no chance of shimmying between/under the strands and make sure there is "juice" in it, so that your baby learns to stay away.

Classic_Astra, good luck for the birth.

I wish everyone easy births and happy healthy foals!
 
Have to say I would not have sheep wire near horses. Some years ago I had my horses at a yard that had it on most of the fields somewhere. I rescued several horses who got their feet stuck through the squares. Then one day I found Humphrey with his foot attached the roll of it that he had pulled off the fence posts. Of course I moved.
I don't think you can predict everything that babies will do, you can only reduce the risks.
 
GinnieRedwings I'm not being snobby or elitist, I am a hobby breeder myself and have only ever produced a few foals a year - it's just basic care/facilities that is a horse owners responsibility to provide for their pets, I'm not saying everyone needs white post and rail fences just safe fencing and access to a stable. And to do their research and find out what their pets need before they breed and how to care for them.
I have no problem with horses living out 24/7 - but foals need shelter. When you see people who are breeding from their horse and have no facilities it baffles me - no-one held a gun to your head and made you put your mare in foal - it was a planned decision, and one that cost a lot of money what with vet bills/swabs/blood tests/stud fee/livery at stud/transport etc - saying you can't afford facilities but you can afford to get your mare to stud/and buy an in-foal mare is daft. Surely if you are a responsible breeder, regardless of wether you are an average hobby breeder or a professional, you'd save the money on all the expense of putting your mare in foal - buy decent fencing/shelter and put your mare in foal the next year for your own piece of mind more than anything - what's the rush - it's not as if breeding horses makes money, so you're not loosing anything.

I have no problem with horses foaling outside either, some of mine have - and I watch from nearby in my deck chair to make sure all goes well, although they are mares I know and have foaled before so I know they are not going to tank off if anything goes wrong and take me hours to catch even in the small foaling paddock! Mine are brought in at night if the weather isn't great or if I need to keep an eye on them for the first few days after they are born. And about a week before they foal they are in at night, I check them every half an hour 24/7. I've saved 3 foals over the years that had they not been in so I could help immediately they would have died - the first 3 days are critical too when foals are most likely to die.
It's nothing to do with what breed they are or how hardy - they are my pets and my responsibility to make sure they are safe and well rather than just leaving them to survive simply because "they do in the wild" so therefore it's ok, leaving a newborn foal out in a rain storm to shiver it out or make it ill is just irresponsible. They have vast open spaces in the wild, if anything goes wrong they die - but ours are domesticated animals that we breed for fun.
Yes accidents can happen anywhere and foals just attract injuries but it's our responsibility to make sure they are minimised, you wouldn't leave razor blades out if you had little children, you make sure the risks are minimal until they are older and more co-ordinated. Surely if you have gone to all the expense of putting a mare in foal in the first place, waiting 11 months and then oops it died after it severed an artery on the electric string, I'd be mortified.
The first thing I did before I ever bred anything was to save up and get all my fencing done and at least 2 foaling boxes - took 2 years to save up enough and a bank loan, it's not rocket science. And lets face it it is not cheap to put a mare in foal or raise one, horses are a luxury item, you have to have a certain amount of money and have several jobs to pay for them in the first place, and be completely nuts!!

It always baffles me with the horsey world people always use the excuse that I've got away with it before therefore it is OK to do it again, or my friend did it and got away with it therefore it's ok and nothings happened so far.... touch wood!!?? Ginnieredwings if you have been breeding for 15yrs - surely you should be setting an example to those starting out, saying that you have got away with it so far so it's fine to do it isn't a great message to be sending out.
And I have seen newforest foals that have died/hit by cars/got stuck in fencing and with bad injuries - the verderers get to them pretty quickly and if needed put them down - they don't leave them wandering round for the tourists to see. I helped load a wild newforest mare that had retained its placenta and had gone down on a friends land - it died, don't know what happened to the foal. And as for gypsy cobs foaling in bogs - they do die it's just you don't see them.
Those kind of breeders are the main source of the problem of over population as is the racing industry but it's also the ever increasing number of hobby breeders that are really breeding for no reason other than they have a field and a mare with a working uterus and fancy a cute foal, so blaming everything on big breeders/travelers is not very practical, if all hobby breeders bred responsibly then it would be a start.
 
In reply...Although I agree with a lot of what you are saying there is one point I contest.

I always use graded stallions, have my mares jabs up to date, have my newborn foals checked by a vet within 12 hours of birth and a tet shot given etc, I estimate, with a covering fee of £750 and using AI that each foal will cost me around £2500 before they are even born, I know not everyone does it like this though!!.

When I first started 'hobby' breeding I was taken by a 'friend' to see a stallion she recommended, The said stallion was 8 years old with a stud fee of....a whole £50.00, no swabs were needed etc and keep was a whole £1.00 per day, the mares ran with the stallion. I was advised 'not to bother' getting the mare scanned as the stallion would have 'caught' her by the end of the season. No mention of possible twins etc. or of desease, jabs or for that matter care of the mare.

Had I not asked around and researched online then I would have thought this was how you breed horses!! But in some areas this is more the 'normal' than the way I do it.

We all have our own way of doing things and most are not right or wrong. As long as the mare and foal are well taken care of than each to their own. If we all tried to breed the next 'superstar' where would all the everyday 'superstar' family horses come from?
 
Alexart, I don't have an issue with your argument, I am currently waiting for a very valuable foal to be born out of £20k's worth of showjumping broodmare by a very talented young German SJ stallion with a champion's pedigree and trust me I have no intention of losing it to a stupid accident that could easily have been prevented.

What I do have an issue with though, is your patronising, condescending tone, which, in my opinion, has no place on a forum like this. In my opinion, again, if you don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself. Classic_astra should be perfectly entitled to share pictures of her pregnant mare on her due date without being vilified or being made to feel inadequate. That's just rude. And she should be allowed to spend her hard earned cash and whatever she pleases without being called "daft" by some judgemental complete stranger who has no idea of her circumstances. Live & let live!
 
Well said Ginnie! My mare was purchased as a riding horse, it was only because she had been sold by her breeder as a broodmare to a SJ breeder then to a dealer then another dealer and that dealer had told me her story that I bothered to have her scanned at vetting.

If the story of the 2 x coverings had not been relayed to me I would still be riding her and riding her hard to make her lose weight and I expect she may have foaled down in a quite average sized box or out in a field with a mixture of other riding horses! She certainly would not be being fed the best quality feed, supplements and haylage.

Anyway, as it is I have moved her to a nice quiet yard with one other mare and oh my gosh the evil electric fencing running down one side. She will foal down out in the field and the vet is perfectly happy with this. Oh and by the way the vet is an extremely experienced stud vet with many years of professional and personal experience!

I have practically no idea of when she is due either - some time from end of May to end of June we think!

Crikey - I think someone might need to call the RSPCA if I type for much longer!

However, I have seeked endless amounts of help and advice from professionals and experienced breeding friends as well as joining this forum for more advice and support. I have had her jabs brought up to date - she had had absolutely nothing prior to my purchase in the 8 years of her life. Her feet were in a terrible condition and quite frankly the fact that she had survived 8 years and 3 foals without going terribly lame is a miracle. Her breeder quite openly told me that they had lost one of her foals to tetanus when it got injured going to stud with the mare.

Now that sort of treatment is uncaring and cruel - I do not believe that anyone who has bothered to take the time and effort to come on to a Forum such as this can be classed like that.

Lets all just keep our opinions to ourselves and if you have not got something nice to say then don't bother saying it!
 
Totally uncalled for Mcnaughty.

People are sharing their years of experience here - and also voicing concerns.

When you have the experience to be able to contribute to a valuable debate, reply. Until then, read and learn.
 
Our mare is due to foal soon and every post like this that I read I can feel my paranoia level rising expedentially - and it was pretty high to start with! I am one of those people who is always waiting for an accident to happen and now I'm worrying about the hen wire fixed to the other side of the post and rail down one aide of the paddock - could a foal foot get through it? - the size of the stable for foaling - only 12x12 - so should we aim for outdoors instead? - is the mare too fat/not fat enough/showing enough for 300 days/ - what if something goes wrong - how quickly can the vet get here(took nearly an hour when she had colic a few weeks ago - what if she drips too much colostrum and the foal doesn't get enough and how would I know anyway etc etc etc Why did I think ths was a good idea?! x
 
mle22, please don't worry too much.

The wire on the other side of the post & rail shouldn't cause a problem (because it is on the other side, if that makes sense, the foal's chest would hit the rail before his legs reach the wire, unless you are really really unlucky, but as I said before you can take all the precautions in the world and something could still happen - hope I'm not making this worse for you now :p).

9 times out of 10, everything happens seamlessly the way nature intended. It is however important to be there in case something does go wrong and I would just make sure you read everything there is to read about birthing and issues that might arise and what to do about it. Being really prepared and feeling you know exactly what you should do if the mare takes too long to expel the foal, if there is a red bag delivery, if you feel the foal's presentation is wrong should make you more confident when the time comes. If you know absolutely by heart what is supposed to happen, you will know what isn't. Of course, if the whole thing really stresses you out this much, then why not send her away to a stud or the vet's to foal? It will obviously cost you a bit of money, but they have all the facilities and experience to make things easier.

When a mare decides to stick her bottom in the corner, it really doesn't matter how big the box is! My shelter is 12 x 12 and my mare foaled right in the middle with her bum conveniently turned towards the door both times, for easy access, clever girl! :D

Mares rarely leak so much colostrum that passive transfer is compromised. They can leak milk for a couple of days before foaling and things are still fine - that is what the "waxing" is about - effectively, the colostrum coagulates at the end of the teats to stop the milk from running. Milk only ends up running because mares tend to knock off the wax swishing their tail or kicking their tummy. If she ran milk for more than a couple of days and in great quantities, then your vet should have some colostrum in his freezer, which can be bottle fed to the foal within 12 hours of birth.

Please don't stress. You need to be calm and collected and more than anything, well prepared. So just swat away! Read, study, speak to you vet and ask as many questions as come through your head to the HHO breeding forum!

Good luck x
 
I think this conversation has drifted completely off the point.. BUT i would like to say..

I think when people get involved with horses... and make it an un-natural environment for them.. accidents happen!! whether they be older horses or foals... accidents happen with fencing!

Post and Rail, electric, wire etc.. if you fence a horse in at the end of the day.. it is going to increase the chance of it hurting itself!

The stud I work at uses post and rail fencing and has chicken wire from the ground to about 4 ft up the fence! I have seen foals go through electric fencing, through the post and rail and through the wire.. and no matter what way you look at it.. there is always potential for them to hurt themselves.. and i've seen them hurt themselves!!!

Where i foal my horses down.. they do foal inside because we have the facilities in huge boxes with good lights and cameras... but when the mare and foal goes out.. they are in paddocks fenced with posts and electric fencing.. i personally haven't had a problem with it.. only when i weaned my foal did she go through it and it just broke.. but she'd of been 200kg+!

I think Responsible breeding is the way forward! So long as you are prepared for every eventuality.. that your vet is advised when your mare is close, that you have adequate lights/ torches to hand for foaling if you don't have a stable, if you have a form of transport ready incase something goes wrong and you need to get to a vet!! and that your fencing is as safe as you can make it! so.. no barbed wire.. your fencing if electric or wire is tight and not sagging on the floor.. etc... and most importantly your horse can get out of the rain.. this is especially important for a foal.. not just in the 1st week!! if the woods surrounding your house provides good shelter and the foal can get out of the rain somehow.. ur doing a good job!!

Hope all goes well!
 
Alexart you have raised valid points & I for one dont see why you have been jumped on for raising them. This forum is open to all & just because you dont agree with someone should not stop you saying so without the risk of being jumped on!!

One of the reasons it is safer to foal inside is that even a mare who has foaled previous can reject her foal & it is easier to deal with inside a stable then out in a field. As I have said in past posts mine always foaled inside until the last 3 mares took matters into their own hands & foaled late afternoon/early evening outside. The first mare to do it had previously foaled yet rejected her colt, probably because another mare took him over.

Being at a livery yard I dont have a lot of say in the fencing & have to make the best of what we have. I would not choose to breed if I did not have a stable for the mare & foal to come into. Like most youngsters they do not like wet/windy conditions & it is not good for them to be lying on cold wet ground. Your natives have vast areas to roam & know where to find shelter along with the fact they have for years been bred in those conditions. Travellers horses foal by the side of the road on chains & not always with the best shelter to hand. Just because they appear to be ok, does not make it ideal for the mare or foal.

We all have our different ways of looking after our animals, so long as they are not suffering it is no ones business, expect people not to always see eye to eye Alexart is entitled to raise concerns just like the rest of us.
 
Thank you GinnieRedwings for the reassurance - I have a couple of good books and am swotting up! I did think about sending her away to a stud to foal but just felt it might be more stressful for her in a different environment with people she didn't know as she is very much into her routines with us having been with us for 8 years. I will try to remain calm and collected - prepare for the worst and expect the best - isn't that how the saying goes. x
 
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