My new horse is having revolutionary new Bone Cyst surgery…..

[Arabella77]

….And I’m so scared!

So my new horse, Flynn, a 4yo Connemara, whom I waited 30 years for…has been intermittently lame since bringing him into work this year…

Vet did blocks and X-rays before referring him to Oakham…they were very surprised (as referral vet thought he’s probably just being young and lazy) to find on the CT scans, very large bone cysts in stifle, both of them!

Utterly devastated doesn’t even describe it but surgery was scheduled.

F was booked to have the cysts injected but after discovering the cysts were so large, they halted the surgery and booked him in for the following week. This was to have steel screws placed in front of the cysts.

F was then due to go into this week but I got a call from surgeon Monday morning stating they wanted to try a new procedure involving placing calcium composite implants into the cysts.

This has not been done on any horse in the UK (as far as my surgeon and I are aware of anyhow!) eek!!

A study has been done on 38 yearling racehorses in Italy, 36 successfully.
This is an article about it FYI https://equimanagement.com/articles/research-on-absorbable-implant-in-young-horses

So there we go…does anyone have any experience of this sort of surgery and stories they can share? Im Hopeful this is the best procedure for him but it doesn’t make thinking about it any easier! I just bought F as my leisure horse to do hacking and low level stuff on though he has great breeding so I was hoping to find a rider to take him competing one day too…would he such shame if this couldn’t be….?
In the meantime I will try and keep positive and keep updating if anybody is interested. Thanks for reading x

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I have no experience but would be very interested to see how you and F get on. Best of luck!

 

[Arabella77]

I have no experience but would be very interested to see how you and F get on. Best of luck!

Thank you!

 

[EllenJay]

No experience, but I would check that the insurance would pay for this surgery. Being a new procedure, they may be reluctant to pay out

 

[criso]

I'd been interested to know who you get on. My old tb (no longer with us) was retired because of a bone cyst in his shoulder. They tried injecting which didn't work and operated to clean it out but he didn't come back sound so was retired. Insurance wasn't an issue for paying out even though the procedures they did, didn't have a proven track record.

So I'm interested to see if this works even if it is too late for mine.

 

[brighteyes]

Sounds promising - best of luck to Flynn and yourself.

 

[Arabella77]

No experience, but I would check that the insurance would pay for this surgery. Being a new procedure, they may be reluctant to pay out

I have already informed my insurance company about the diagnosis and the claim is already being processed. All was ok the last time I was in touch with them. However I will speak to my surgeon and the insurance about this though before things go ahead.

 

[Arabella77]

I'd been interested to know who you get on. My old tb (no longer with us) was retired because of a bone cyst in his shoulder. They tried injecting which didn't work and operated to clean it out but he didn't come back sound so was retired. Insurance wasn't an issue for paying out even though the procedures they did, didn't have a proven track record.

So I'm interested to see if this works even if it is too late for mine.

I’m so sorry to hear about your boy having to be retired and may he RIP?
I had heard success rates for injecting and debridement weren’t great so am hoping this will be a success and a real hope for horses out there with this defect.

 

[Kahlua]

I’m sorry, I’m another who doesn’t have any experience with this but would be very interested to hear how it goes if you move forward with it. Also hoping for a full recovery for your boy!

 

[Arabella77]

Just an update on my horses bone cyst surgery….it was 70 days ago today and Flynn came out of surgery well with minimal scarring. Surgeon had high hopes for him at recent check up and has advised to turn him away for winter to heal and mature. So he is living life out 24/7 and very happy! It’s too early to say if its been a complete success, by end of December is when they say it should be fully healed but I’m hoping this time next year I can report back and say he’s in full wor happily! My insurance covered the surgery but it still went over the £5000 limit by a grand or so! that did include a separate gastroscope claim he had done whilst under anaesthesia tho. Its been an incredibly worrying and stressful time but I’m hoping it will be worth it.

 

[Carrottom]

Glad it's good news so far. Look forward to a positive update next year.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

That sounds like good news, well worth taking the vets 'advice and having the procedure. Would the insurance co not consider the gastroscope as a separate claim? Fingers crossed for the next stage.

 

[Birker2020]

….And I’m so scared!

So my new horse, Flynn, a 4yo Connemara, whom I waited 30 years for…has been intermittently lame since bringing him into work this year…

Vet did blocks and X-rays before referring him to Oakham…they were very surprised (as referral vet thought he’s probably just being young and lazy) to find on the CT scans, very large bone cysts in stifle, both of them!

Utterly devastated doesn’t even describe it but surgery was scheduled.

F was booked to have the cysts injected but after discovering the cysts were so large, they halted the surgery and booked him in for the following week. This was to have steel screws placed in front of the cysts.

F was then due to go into this week but I got a call from surgeon Monday morning stating they wanted to try a new procedure involving placing calcium composite implants into the cysts.

This has not been done on any horse in the UK (as far as my surgeon and I are aware of anyhow!) eek!!

A study has been done on 38 yearling racehorses in Italy, 36 successfully.
This is an article about it FYI https://equimanagement.com/articles/research-on-absorbable-implant-in-young-horses

So there we go…does anyone have any experience of this sort of surgery and stories they can share? Im Hopeful this is the best procedure for him but it doesn’t make thinking about it any easier! I just bought F as my leisure horse to do hacking and low level stuff on though he has great breeding so I was hoping to find a rider to take him competing one day too…would he such shame if this couldn’t be….?
In the meantime I will try and keep positive and keep updating if anybody is interested. Thanks for reading x

How amazing you have the chance of this pioneering work. Good luck

 

[splashgirl45]

fingers crossed he comes right next year, its sounding hopeful

 

[Maryann]

Don't forget to watch his weight while all this is going on - the last thing you need is laminitis as you're bringing him back into work.

 

[Arabella77]

Update: So Flynn had the surgery in August…when we went to collect him and were shown the X-rays, the surgeon explained they were happy and the screws stayed where they should. I did point out that it looked like it had come out in one of the pictures but he assured us otherwise.

Flynn was put on box rest for 4/5 weeks. I was advised to then turn him away for winter and bring him back for check in February time.

However over the last month or so he seemed to be more lame than ever. I called Oakham and they said I need to give him more time but I requested danilon.

I didn’t feel satisfied with the outcome so I contacted the surgeon that conducted the study, published in the vet paper. Mainly just to see if he had a success story to share and give me hope!

He kindly replied and I sent him all the X-rays I had.
I was shocked when he then responded, explaining that the screws had not been placed correctly and I should contact Oakham again.

I had a call back promptly after sending an email and surgeon said he would take another look at the X-rays and get back in touch.

A couple of weeks passed and after a chase up email, the surgeon called me and admitted that after looking more carefully at the X-rays, he agreed that the screws have come out!

The X-rays were done the week Flynn stayed in hospital, so must have come out straight away or not been placed correctly in first place!

I’m now waiting on a call from Oakham again to book in for Flynn to go back for more X-rays.

I’m out of insurance (£5K plus I paid another £1k on top) and have made this quite clear. They’ve said they will have him back for X-rays and check covered by them but I’m wondering if they will try and get me to pay for the extra surgery?

Surely this is negligent as the screws weren’t placed correctly? I’m just trying to prepare myself for it all. I do have free legal advice for the helpline with my BHS rider insurance, so could contact them if things look like they might go that way.

Would be interested to hear anyone else’s thoughts and/or experience with this sort of thing. I’m devastated and feel so guilty putting Flynn through this when it should be making him better.

 

[Red-1]

Update: So Flynn had the surgery in August…when we went to collect him and were shown the X-rays, the surgeon explained they were happy and the screws stayed where they should. I did point out that it looked like it had come out in one of the pictures but he assured us otherwise.

Flynn was put on box rest for 4/5 weeks. I was advised to then turn him away for winter and bring him back for check in February time.

However over the last month or so he seemed to be more lame than ever. I called Oakham and they said I need to give him more time but I requested danilon.

I didn’t feel satisfied with the outcome so I contacted the surgeon that conducted the study, published in the vet paper. Mainly just to see if he had a success story to share and give me hope!

He kindly replied and I sent him all the X-rays I had.
I was shocked when he then responded, explaining that the screws had not been placed correctly and I should contact Oakham again.

I had a call back promptly after sending an email and surgeon said he would take another look at the X-rays and get back in touch.

A couple of weeks passed and after a chase up email, the surgeon called me and admitted that after looking more carefully at the X-rays, he agreed that the screws have come out!

The X-rays were done the week Flynn stayed in hospital, so must have come out straight away or not been placed correctly in first place!

I’m now waiting on a call from Oakham again to book in for Flynn to go back for more X-rays.

I’m out of insurance (£5K plus I paid another £1k on top) and have made this quite clear. They’ve said they will have him back for X-rays and check covered by them but I’m wondering if they will try and get me to pay for the extra surgery?

Surely this is negligent as the screws weren’t placed correctly? I’m just trying to prepare myself for it all. I do have free legal advice for the helpline with my BHS rider insurance, so could contact them if things look like they might go that way.

Would be interested to hear anyone else’s thoughts and/or experience with this sort of thing. I’m devastated and feel so guilty putting Flynn through this when it should be making him better.

I am sorry you are turned inside out, but know that you have only ever done what you believe to be beneficial to Flynn.

If they decide that the screws were misplaced, I would ask them to cover the cost of righting the procedure. I would ask for that anyway, TBH, as the 'fault' was there from before you picked him up, so you have kept him all this time with (presumably) no chance of it getting better.

I would, at the same time, query whether the delay will now mean the procedure is unlikely to be successful. I would consider PTS if it is now unlikely to work.

TBH, I am not usually one to want to make a claim, but if they weren't comfortable with this 'new' procedure, they could have sent the x rays themselves to have confirmation. It seems you could see the fault on the initial X ray, I wonder why they didn't?

 

[splashgirl45]

i would think you have a good case for them correcting what they have done and you not paying...after all your horse has been put through pain and he shouldnt have if they had done it properly.. do you have it in writing that it hadnt been done correctly? i would contact BHS legal line for advice

 

[Arabella77]

Thank you for your replies….the thought of PTS has come into my mind of late as I’m so desperate for him not to be in any more pain. He is very grumpy still being groomed and touched and I know why now.

They won’t ever put anything in writing. I emailed before insisting the reply be in writing and still they would only call me.

He admitted on the phone that the screws have come out and they couldn’t understand why. They needed to discuss and work out why. He did think that maybe they could take screw out and leave it as it is as they had already curetted it in prep for the screws.

I really dont understand how they missed not seeing the screw on the X-ray I’ll try and add the screenshot on here…


My worry is after all this will the poor horse even recover fully…he was meant to be my heart horse…waited 30 years for him….I never wanted to do HOYS just wanted a horse to ride and do low level stuff with…but I do love jumping hence I liked his bloodlines…..now I’m thinking is it fair on him to carry on …….I really trusted the hospital as they had high hopes for this new procedure now im not so sure?

 

[Arabella77]

 

[ycbm]

I agree with the others, they are liable for the costs of correction, liable for the costs of an extended recuperation and may yet be liable for the loss of your horse, since the problem was there before you took him home.

I would be putting something in writing about this and demanding a written response, and if you can face the stress, then you would have every right to sue if they won't pay up voluntarily.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation and I'm furious on your behalf. I'm also cross because I was hoping very much to put this into my own armoury of future solutions to previously unresolvable problems, and the vet's incompetence has prevented us all from knowing how successful it might have been.

 

[Arabella77]

We’ve finally have reached the day of X-rays and follow up appointment…my horse has been surprisingly sound for last few weeks …. but will see what the experts pick up and what the X-rays show…hoping for a miracle And not a court case

 

[FFAQ]

Good luck OP, I'll be keeping everything crossed for you and Flynn. What a terrible situation ?

 

[Birker2020]

Very best of luck OP

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Good luck!

The vets should have insurance to cover them for incidents like this, so if you need to do so, be prepared to follow this through.

 

[tristar]

i would be contacting all the university professors who have in depth knowledge of his condition, then take him to one and if poss get them to help him, some of them are brilliant, a second opinion is needed here, i know it will be an effort but it just might work out for you and the horse, and when you find the right vet a big load will be lifted

no way would i let the original vet lot touch that horse, sounds like they dont get out of bed till 11 am

 

[Goldenstar]

PAS is spot on there’s no need for any one to take this personally ( I mean the vet )
They are insured for things like this .
Contact the BHS for sure.
But I would be sending them a Email listing what happened in date order and what said to you
They would need to counter that in writing , keep it short and factual without any emotion.
Send the email to the vet the senior partner ( if there is one ) and the practise manager .
Hindsight is great but did you ask how many time they had done this procedure before they did it ?

You will be moving towards them either involving their insurer or them doing doing work billing you and you refusing to pay .
They then could take you to the small claims court , they be far more sensible to either suck it up or use their insurance .

Get all your paperwork in one place .
Write down the time line
Get everything clear what dates what was said .
I am very sorry this has happened .

 

[Goldenstar]

I would also take a second opinion before I put the horse through any more I would want to be clear it’s safe to let them try to rectify the problem .

 

[Arabella77]

Ok so the update is he was 100% sound! The surgeon said he wasn’t really sure what had gone on but thought the screw had probably dissolved and that new bone formation was present. He said to start him back in ridden work in a month or so and see If hes lame again then. I will try to add photos and my explanations here….im just pleased he sound but not sure what the vets honest thinking of it is…im a bit worried he was just trying to brush me off but he wanted to see him again in May/June time if he’s not already lame by then.

 

[ycbm]

Why do your x rays have you recorded as a Man U fan ? ?

They're very interesting, thanks for sharing.
.