My saddle fit didn't go very well

[Flame_]

I have fairly low expectations of saddle fitters on the whole, but having abandoned all hope of coming across what I would like second hand I am looking at new which involves saddle fitters.

I had a lengthy conversation with the senior saddler over the phone, telling him all my horse's conformational challenges and his tendency to shift saddles forwards, he assured me that he hadn't fitted an arab in these saddles that he hadn't got them to work on. I also told him that the horse would not fit a wide tree - I'd already bought one and it isn't wide enough, horse is at least extra wide.

I took the horse on a long journey, a round trip of six and a half hours and hired an indoor for two hours.

The saddle fitter that came was very nice but she only brought the saddles I wanted to try in a wide fit. I did ride on one and liked it but it moved forwards as soon as I cantered.
What I wanted to try, is using the saddle in the correct size for the horse, really with the long girth billets instead of the short ones on this trial saddle, but the saddlers won't get one in the right size for me to try without me committing to buy it. They might be able to borrow a demo one from the ASC, maybe not, and the day would again cost me the best part of £200 (saddle fit, diesel, arena hire, toll bridge), AFAIC they really ought to have done that in the first place, shouldn't they?

Getting frustrated with this now. Horse is too tricky, wide and awkward shaped to keep taking punts second hand, but I can't try out what I'd be getting new to order before it's paid for, with no guarantees it won't just end up on horse's withers or make horse cross. Sigh. I shall return to my last thread and start considering options.

 

[TPO]

I've had similar with a fitter.

I went into great detail about what I wanted (2nd hand leather) and details of the horse

They arrived with no saddles to try other than one brand new saddle that they had by mistake rather than plan.

They had only packed Xwide and XXwide because they thought that's what would be needed; not the wide that I advised.

They said that they would come back out (full charge and travel costs again!) with more saddles now that they knew what the horse was like! I told them I'd just find a 2nd hand version of the new saddle that fitted. They "kindly" offered to reflock a second hand saddle for flocking fee and travelling fee to pick up and drop off saddle and would have the saddle for a week.

I know saddles cant carry every option but I gave them my number along with precise descriptions and told them to call me to discuss if any further info was needed.

It was so disappointing as the person she was taking over from is excellent.

It is very frustrating!

 

[soloequestrian]

Speak to Keren BALANCE Saddling (balanceinternational.com)
She is lovely and she will talk you through both new and second hand for any width of horse.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

That must be so annoying! Have you considered treeless? I had my Draft mare in 4 (?) different saddles over 5 years, including the one that she brought with her. Fortunately I could recycle saddles that we already had but it was a complete revelation when I borrowed a treeless saddle from a friend to try. When the mare had her own Solution saddle it sorted out the muscle wastage that I had been struggling with for 5 years.

 

[Ellietotz]

I've just read your other thread.
My Arab x mare is also an awkward one to fit, including myself who must have secure enough knee rolls that I don't meet the floor when she does something stupid but that aren't too far forwards. She's croup high and fairly wide too.

Out of the millions of saddles that I've tried that seem to fit on her is the Symonds Cambridge GP without the teardrop gussets, I liked it too but decided not to go with it due to it being heavy and her being sensitive, I felt like myself plus the saddle would be borderline. It isn't heavier than an average saddle at around 8kg but I just prefer something lighter for her, though I absolutely highly rate Symonds saddles, they are excellent. The other saddles that worked were an old GFS Genesis that sat on her really nice and didn't move, it is fairly straight cut so sits behind the shoulder well but not the right seat shape for my bottom, GFS advised me that a Monarch may be a good option and finally the Ideal VSD works well for me, good security and doesn't move, petite tree though so might not be wide enough along the back for you, the Ideal Event on a DT tree also worked but the flaps were too long for my legs. I'm told the DT tree is fairly similar to the H&C tree so good clearance over the spine. The Symonds Cambridge is also an H&C tree.

I completely understand the frustration, I've spent a ridiculous amount taking gambles on secondhand saddles and different saddle fitters! It's extremely annoying that they brought nothing with them that actually fit!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Feeling your pain; a client at my yard had a "SMS" saddle-fitter to fit her Arab, who had significant back issues as well as significant atrophy on one side plus assymetry which even a novice would have noticed.

She was given a wide selection of saddles to try, which she did admit "might" fit, but she obviously just couldn't be arsed to get her fitting tool out and start doing her job.

Instead she took the easy option and fitted a Wintec with CAIR. No assessment made of the back issues, no adjustment to fit the atrophy and to address the assymetry. Client had clearly outlined her limited budget beforehand, but the woman was dismissive of this.

This was supposed to be a "reputable" firm of Master Saddlers. Yeah right. A novice could have fitted a saddle better than she did; tho' it might have fitted a camel OK..........

 

[Kaylum]

Why do people think wintecs fit everything just because they are adjustable?

 

[SEL]

I also feel your pain. Short backed ridiculously wide horse. Vet chiro said not to go past 16.5" (which my bum fits ok). Briefed well respected firm of saddlers who fitted her a MW 17.5" Albion. Very comfy for me but horse pulled faces while I was riding and wouldn't go forward. Lots of mutterings about novice riders which my sharp ears picked up (while I'm not challenging Olympic medals I've been riding for over 40 years). I ignored the rudeness and refused to be bullied into buying a saddle I wasn't convinced by.
In the end a WOW saddle fitter gave me a loan saddle for 3 weeks and spent ages adjusting it.

I have to confess to hating the whole saddle fit experience!

 

[onemoretime]

Ive just been through the horrors of saddle fitting for my mare 5 times this year!! Finally had a lovely chap out who has fitted her with a new Andrea Hicks GP which is very much like a working hunter saddle. It doesn't move so far (this was only yesterday) it has lovely leather and is of really good quality. The fitter really knew his stuff was so professional and took his time trying on lots of different makes before ending up with the AH.

My mare is only 15.1 and is WB X ISH she has big shoulders and is wide below the wither. Fitter said she was a size 5 on their measurements, he took a template of her with the bendy thing and drew it on a piece of paper. He is going to find me a 2nd hand dressage saddle with the same tree as this GP. I think the dressage one is called Affinity.

Up until yesterday the whole fitting business was driving me mad, my saddler who I have used for years just did not have anything that fitted, it either moved or the mare just did not like it. I feel the pain of all of you who have been through or are going through this nightmare. If you have a wide horse it is well worth looking at the Andrea Hicks saddles.

 

[Flame_]

That must be so annoying! Have you considered treeless? I had my Draft mare in 4 (?) different saddles over 5 years, including the one that she brought with her. Fortunately I could recycle saddles that we already had but it was a complete revelation when I borrowed a treeless saddle from a friend to try. When the mare had her own Solution saddle it sorted out the muscle wastage that I had been struggling with for 5 years.

Yes, unfortunately I am almost as particular about what I need as horse is and in some ways we are at odds with each other! Treeless is definitely not for me and I'd guess probably not for horse going off previous indications. I have a quality flexible panel saddle which I love riding on - horse is not a fan. I also love flair saddles for my back but I daren't go down this road with this horse either given how clearly and dramatically he can express his disapproval of my personal preferences! Regarding Solution Saddles, a lady on my former livery yard had one for a little while and it wasn't a suitable saddle for her or her horse.

My horse has been happiest in a (now tight) traditional treed saddle - he just doesn't seem to be a suitable shape to strap them onto!

 

[SusieT]

In fairness the saddler has to pay for getting a saddle in and if its an awkward size may not be able to resell it so I can see why they will only get it in if you are truely keen - but they should have told you that before you went down.

 

[fredflop]

Can you get someone out to get you a made to measure, or better still, order you a new one off the shelf with required modifications

 

[Flame_]

In fairness the saddler has to pay for getting a saddle in and if its an awkward size may not be able to resell it so I can see why they will only get it in if you are truely keen - but they should have told you that before you went down.

Is extra wide really an awkward size nowadays? Especially for arabs. I am truly keen, I am unable to ride my horse, have cash waiting and know the tree shape of these saddles matches the shape of my horses back, however that doesn't address the issue of knowing whether or not we can get one to keep still.

I'm anti made to measure, IME they're no cleverer than any other saddle and no more likely to work out after a massive investment and long wait, then you have a saddle that no one else will even buy off you for a few hundred quid.

 

[SEL]

In fairness the saddler has to pay for getting a saddle in and if its an awkward size may not be able to resell it so I can see why they will only get it in if you are truely keen - but they should have told you that before you went down.

For the team that came out to me I'd have been happy if they'd said they didn't have anything suitable in stock rather than trying to sell me something that wasn't right. These were 'master saddlers' & my view of that profession has been pretty dim ever since!

 

[Patterdale]

I had similar, 6.5 hour round trip, arena hire, long talk with fitter in advance. Told her the horse absolutely would not take more than a 16.5 as he was very short coupled.

She brought a van full of 17”. Then said ‘oh yes you’re right, he needs a 16.5, isn’t he short coupled?? I didn’t think you could be right on the phone, haha!’

I was not impressed.

Hope u get your saddle soon ?

 

[Patterdale]

In fairness the saddler has to pay for getting a saddle in and if its an awkward size may not be able to resell it so I can see why they will only get it in if you are truely keen - but they should have told you that before you went down.

The good fitter that I eventually went to went to great trouble to get a very specific saddle in on loan from Albion for me to try (despite trying to tell me it wouldn’t do) as I had my heart set on it.
It wasn’t right, she was very nice about it though and said ‘you needed to see it for yourself.’

I bought a lovely Equipe from her and she couldn’t have taken more time or been more helpful.

 

[Widgeon]

I've also started to feel like a bit of a waste of space to saddle fitters. As well as trialling several saddles from online shops (with associated postage and trial costs), I've now spent on two fitter visits; nothing she had fitted. One seemed to fit very nicely (just placed on his back - I couldn't ride on it - trying out a saddle by actually riding on it would be asking far too much) but the only one she had on that tree was a 17.5", which is too long. My already small budget is now even smaller, and the only way to access second hand saddles now seems to be either buying random ones off the internet one at a time, or via saddle fitters. The two local shops that used to hold a big stock of second hand have closed or stopped selling second hand saddles altogether. I could scream (actually, I have). I'm thinking about investing in a surcingle and a big squishy pillow and just tying that to him and sitting on top.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Speak to Keren BALANCE Saddling (balanceinternational.com)
She is lovely and she will talk you through both new and second hand for any width of horse.

Amen to this.

 

[sbloom]

You know what I'm going to say. No XW is not a problem, having a saddle from stock is not a problem and in many cases gives you a full ridden trial without even deductions if you're careful with the saddle. In so many cases XW will mean going custom from a non-specialist. It's hard work fitting these shapes, most saddle fitters want stock that sells day in day out, so they stock the stuff for the mass/easy market. So they don't do loads of these fittings and don't see the point of stocking specialist brands, which they COULD do if they so chose, it's not a closed shop.

Some fitters will offer a consultation to purchase used, possibly with a charge, but to do it properly takes time, and ongoing handholding as the customer finds various saddles that they think fit the bill (and it doesn't matter how tightly you write the list of suitable saddles, many vendors have no idea what they're selling).

As for the lack of availability of second hand, the internet put paid to fitters being able to make a living from selling second hand, hence the direct sellers existing. They do it through sheer volume and operating mail order. For the rest of us there's just as much, if not more, work involved in fitting a used saddle, but less money to be made. Many of us work hard, and work long hours, and it's enough of a struggle to earn a decent living.

It's why specialists exist.

 

[honetpot]

I had Balance out, I didn't need a saddle but I was interested in what they were selling, and I had a one sided horse, his front leg turned in from the knee, and I thought it was useful to find out if they could improve on what I had come up with, ten years ago it cost me £50, and she was with me a couple of hours.
My solution was to fit the wide side, and the use https://wowsaddles.com/products/korrector/ It took a while to get the balance right, and to start we would check it every day, but it worked and saved a lot of hassle. The Balance system I thought was less flexible, the Wow system you can literally alter each air bag by one pump.

 

[Gingerwitch]

No help from me sorry as I have felt i was about to be ripped off on more than one occassion and stood back and did my oen research. I even had one saddler cut 2 of my saddle gullet and offer a really low price and try to sell me a saddle with a twisted tree. I just picked up on the booking of an indoors, are we allowed to do this again o sm getting lost with the whole covid thing. X

 

[CanteringCarrot]

A saddle fitter cannot stock every saddle for every person and horse combination. I have had some saddle fitters change the gullet size on site for me to try, but this cannot always be done. One was a Fairfax, so it is a gullet plate, and the other a Sommer, which is infinitely (so they say) cold adjustable. So in some cases it is possible, but not the norm.

They usually stock what sells best, which makes sense. You can explicitly ask them ahead of time if they have any XW. I think if you emphasize your travels and what it takes for you to get to this appointment, they should be able to tell you their inventory ahead of time. Or look for someone that specializes in fitting wider horses. Not super common, but could be out there. My previous fitter (who no longer does saddle fitting) used to tell me what he had for demos and whatnot prior to coming since he knew that I had an idea of what would work and it was a 2 hour trip for him.

Sometimes I can still tell if I like a saddle even if it isn't 100% on my horse, but it depends.

There is one company that has many brands (and something like 100's of saddles - Anke Just Saddlery) and requests all sorts of photos and info before they come out. They always bring a good selection and saddles that fit or nearly fit the horse. However, they are the only saddlery that I know that operate on this scale (mostly in Germany I think, but not sure).

I've also had success with a fitter reaching out to the brand to ask if they had the saddle I wanted to try in their network - as in with another rep or in their warehouse. Which, they did have one in storage, so that worked out.

It can be very frustrating and I have lost a lot of money of the years in saddles.

 

[Elno]

I also have begun to lose faith in saddle fitters when it comes to horses who don't fit in the general WB-mould.

My five year old cobby type-ish mare is a XW. She has been a XW since at least end of summer last year, but still the saddle fitter decided it would be a good idea to put her in a Albion MW even though I specifically told her that I've measured her with a flexicurve and that I wanted to try out saddles in wide and xwide. Since I usually trust professionals, I bought the damn saddle after the saddle fitter assured me it was a very good fit. She also is the one the riding school where we board use, and I have noticed that she tends to fit saddles a bit too tight for my liking, which should have raised some warning flags.

My horse, who never before had a problem standing still when mounting or ever behaving badly under saddle fairly quickly began running around the mounting block and eventually throwing tantrums and bucks the more times I rode in the saddle. Then I put two and two together, put the saddle on sale and bought a barebacksaddle (Christ Lammfelle Iberica) as an interim solution and lo and behold... Got my lovely, kind horse back.

 

[J&S]

I have found it very confusing when three different saddle fitters had different opinions about the same horse as to what would fit! All SMS members/trained.

 

[sbloom]

I have found it very confusing when three different saddle fitters had different opinions about the same horse as to what would fit! All SMS members/trained.

Just like three surgeons will give three different recommended prognoses and treatments for a given condition. I'm not SMS but I've changed the way I fit over the years from how I was trained, and I have my own way of seeing how a saddle fits, but most important what I think would be better to facilitate correct posture and biomechanics. I just try to make sure I say "that's not what I'd have fitted but..." and if they're happy in the saddle, then that's all that matters. If someone comes in and says "that could never have fitted", especially if they can't/won't explain why, run. I also think it's nigh on impossible to say that a saddle fits perfectly so it can't possibly be the saddle that's causing an issue, especially if you don't try adjusting it, or try a different saddle entirely. Fitting is NEVER a tick box exercise.

And yes, there are wide saddle/fittings specialists, I've been one for 12 years.

 

[Flame_]

You know what I'm going to say. No XW is not a problem, having a saddle from stock is not a problem and in many cases gives you a full ridden trial without even deductions if you're careful with the saddle. In so many cases XW will mean going custom from a non-specialist. It's hard work fitting these shapes, most saddle fitters want stock that sells day in day out, so they stock the stuff for the mass/easy market. So they don't do loads of these fittings and don't see the point of stocking specialist brands, which they COULD do if they so chose, it's not a closed shop.

Some fitters will offer a consultation to purchase used, possibly with a charge, but to do it properly takes time, and ongoing handholding as the customer finds various saddles that they think fit the bill (and it doesn't matter how tightly you write the list of suitable saddles, many vendors have no idea what they're selling).

As for the lack of availability of second hand, the internet put paid to fitters being able to make a living from selling second hand, hence the direct sellers existing. They do it through sheer volume and operating mail order. For the rest of us there's just as much, if not more, work involved in fitting a used saddle, but less money to be made. Many of us work hard, and work long hours, and it's enough of a struggle to earn a decent living.

It's why specialists exist.

I have found it very confusing when three different saddle fitters had different opinions about the same horse as to what would fit! All SMS members/trained.

It really is an area full of experts with a very broad spectrum of opinions and abilities. However with saddles it's not just whether they fit, its whether they work and suit which is quite a personal thing to horse and rider, which many of the "experts" just don't want to know about, they just want you to have whatever tree they have that they can match with your horse.

I will just add, since this sounds like I'm negative towards all saddle fitters, that IRL the most helpful and respected saddle fitter I know is Heather Roberts, the Saddle Consultant. She's sold friends suitable, value for money, used saddles, advised me on loads of occasions for no charge and I've never actually bought a saddle from her. One day I'd quite like to! If she phoned me and said she had something that might work, I'd be very optimistic about it.

What bothers me about getting a "specialist" with their own base of products is mainly that I don't really see how they differ from the major brands in traditional treed saddles, obviously there's a difference with saddles like RP, Bua, Wow, eta, that bring something weird and innovative to the table. To tackle stability issues in treed saddles no one seems to be able to come up with more than re-positioning girth billets and those dreadful shaped girths that rub elbows away.

I'm thinking I should take my horse's back shoes off to make him a bit less downhill. He's nearly 10 so any hopes of him levelling out have long died a death!

 

[Flame_]

I just picked up on the booking of an indoors, are we allowed to do this again o sm getting lost with the whole covid thing. X

I was told it was ok as long as I was the only one riding. One horse, one rider. No idea what the official rule is though.

 

[sbloom]

What bothers me about getting a "specialist" with their own base of products is mainly that I don't really see how they differ from the major brands in traditional treed saddles, obviously there's a difference with saddles like RP, Bua, Wow, eta, that bring something weird and innovative to the table. To tackle stability issues in treed saddles no one seems to be able to come up with more than re-positioning girth billets and those dreadful shaped girths that rub elbows away.

You've answered it yourself, non specialists choose from a narrow range of saddles and then focus on girths and sticky pads. Specialists have saddles that have trees with the right rail shape, panels constructed to really work on wider flatter backs, and have the training and techniques to fit the saddles. The saddles may look the same to you, but wouldn't a Frank Baines GP and an Ideal GP look a bit similar? Yet you'd accept that they can fit differently, then add in a specialist fitter with different tricks with the flocking...

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I use Lavinia Mitchell saddles on my Arabs they come up really wide both of mine are in size 3 and they are both x wide I think they go up to a size 6 so wider than most makes.

My flatter backed Arab is the most difficult to fit especially as I am now looking for a dressage saddle for him most are too curvy even the LM dressage saddle I have for the other Arab moves a bit on him although the LM GP fits better.

My fitter said a black country freedom tree may work on him can't find one of those anywhere I really didn't want to buy a brand new one.

 

[onemoretime]

Ive just been through the horrors of saddle fitting for my mare 5 times this year!! Finally had a lovely chap out who has fitted her with a new Andrea Hicks GP which is very much like a working hunter saddle. It doesn't move so far (this was only yesterday) it has lovely leather and is of really good quality. The fitter really knew his stuff was so professional and took his time trying on lots of different makes before ending up with the AH.

My mare is only 15.1 and is WB X ISH she has big shoulders and is wide below the wither. Fitter said she was a size 5 on their measurements, he took a template of her with the bendy thing and drew it on a piece of paper. He is going to find me a 2nd hand dressage saddle with the same tree as this GP. I think the dressage one is called Affinity.

Up until yesterday the whole fitting business was driving me mad, my saddler who I have used for years just did not have anything that fitted, it either moved or the mare just did not like it. I feel the pain of all of you who have been through or are going through this nightmare. If you have a wide horse it is well worth looking at the Andrea Hicks saddles.

By the way, for anyone in the Kent area the fitter was a chap called Sam Wiltshire who I would thoroughly recommend. He is a lovely man and very quiet and kind around the horses. He also certainly knows his stuff about saddle fitting. He was with us for over 2 hours but was in no rush.