My TB turned on me today, please help?

SaharaS

SaharaS

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Hello, I'm new on here so please be gentle with me! My TB gelding 17.1hh 1996 so 16 years old is usually very dependable & reliable, I took him out of training 7 years ago & he's the gentle quiet kind one of my 5. Couple of major things in his life whcih I'll mention, but may be totally unrelated. He lost his friend to colic in Aug 2010 and has been understandably clingy & vocal since though I never separate my horses so they are always stabled in company & always turned out in company. They have a strict routine yet are all easy going enough to cope if it changes. I've brought them in at nights for the last 3weeks/month with no ill effect. Everythign else been as normal & no changes yet today I led my 2 three year olds out to their paddock & went to lead him to his adjoining paddock. I led him through the second gate to the field as I always have but once in the field he suddenly turned on me and struck out rearing looking directly at me. I hung on & tried to pull him down to all fours where they should be, he then did a strange all fours leap & went into another rear. I had the stone wall behind me so had to do what I could to gain space & stop being cornered as the gate was behind me blocking my escape, so I gave a sharp tug on his rope then when he struck out with his front hooves towards my face I flicked the end of the lead rope at him-not to hurt, but just to try gain space. I missed and he didn't stop so I threw the rope at him & scrambled to safety. He pranced off. I slowly walked to him with a handful of grass to try get his rope, this time carrying a broken lunge whip (like a v long schooling whip) just to keep a distance should i need it-he is regularly lunged so does not have any reason to fear the whip as it has never been used on him. I carried it low behind me so not to worry or threaten him. He spun up the grass bank to the school & reared & struk out at my face again. I retreated holding the whip held at arms length to keep him back so I was safe.I could then only drive him in to the paddock by opening the elec fence but he watched me & charged thru like he was jumping off out of the box at the start of xc...he had ten mins of pratting about but by now this was prob just spurred on by the colts who until now had been watching quietly. He looked slightly stressy & hot but did not colic. I took his lightweight rug off as soon as i could get safely near him thru the fence. He seems to have grazed quietly all day and this afternoon he came in eagerly but calmly. He did look slightly cautious but back to his sedate self. Everything this morning was totally out of character, totally unprovoked & nothing I've ever seen before in him. I'm always firm & kind & level with all my horses & normally they treat me kindly & with respect. I'm alone in my yard but frequently get complimented on how kind & gentle they all are, particularly him. The only other odd thing I wanted to mention, highly liekly irellevant, but over the last 18 months, his usually dead straight mane has become curly & thicker. Otherwise he is healthy, bright & good weight, wormed & no feed changes. Could this be the start of an underlying problem?does anyone have any similar experiences?Senility/tumor/brain/mental issues have all crossed my mind and my vet has not returned my call yet so i simply shall worry all weekend instead!thank you & sorry for it being such a long essay!;-)
 
Bl00dy hell.... no advice I'm afraid but that must have been terrifying. A job for the vet I think, hope you find out what the problem is soon. Good luck x
 
Hello, nice to meet you, just wish it was under happier circumstances! Your morning sounds pretty hairy :eek: Have there been any changes round and about, such as pigs, goats etc been put in nearby fields? Just thinking that the smell might have freaked him out. Otherwise things like wasps nest spring to mind, unless there is something wrong with him. The other thing I would be looking at is if he has had a change of feed, even a new bag of feed that may have some contaminent in, or a change of ingrediants which you are not aware of. The latter is very much worth a look at.
 
Very odd behviour but what you describe actually sounds playful, even though it is completely unacceptable. Does he have any field companions? Also, you mention colts. Are they new additions? Could he have been watching them play and tried to do the same to you?
 
Sounds quite odd and especially if you've had him a long time as well. Still, horses will be horses. Was there anything different about what you did today? It may sound stupid but has anything happened in your life to stress you or upset you or have you changed anything you're wearing? It could be an odd smell or something he is picking up on. If he was fine tonight and seemed unphased all day then I wouldn't be too concerned as yet. I would keep an eye on him, monitor his behaviour -possibly keep a diary in case there is any pattern?

The change in mane could be significant or it could be something totally unrelated. Maybe you should take some photos of what he looks like now in case anything does change in his general condition - you then have something to compare to.

I guess any horse can have a weird momemt but I wouldn't expect my horse to ever do anything like you've described.
 
Yikes! Could he be feeling well due to the odd weather we have been having (I'm in Surrey and my 2 are feeling really well this week!)?

The only thing I will say is that from this point in I would be leading him out with a lunge line, hat and gloves. Also if you can get him further into the field so that you are not 'stuck' between him and the wall like you were this morning.

Hope you get this sorted hun, very scary!
 
I’m sorry for the problems you are having. As you have asked for experience of brain tumours - I can’t comment on your boy but can only give you my experience of a horses that I knew.

He was owned by my best friend and I had known him for over 15 years, he was the most lovely boy you could want to meet, calm, well mannered etc etc . He was about 20 years old when his owner noticed long skid marks in his paddock as if he had been flying around having a kick about. A few weeks later he had to be rescued after what appeared he had tried to jump the fence into the next paddock and got tangled up and was found lying on the other side of the fence with his rug still attached to the top of the fence (very unusual as he had never tried to jump out in all of the 15 years that she had had him – it was far to energetic a thing for him to do!!) Over the next few weeks he was noted to have more episodes of just suddenly taking off in the field and running into the fence. Vet ran tests but could not find anything obvious at this time. He then progressed to being aggressive whilst being handled, needing two people to change his rugs, suddenly bolting off when being led in / out, finally progressing to what can only be described as going mad in his stable at times crashing and kicking about…..he was a fantastic lovely boy and was unfortunately diagnosed with a brain tumour and put down instantly. Progression from initial skid marks in the field to when he was put down was only about 6 weeks. During this time in between the “manic” episodes he was his normal self, eating and drinking fine.

As I say I cant comment re your boy, hopefully it it just the time of year.:)
 
Thanks everyone...basically nothing new or unnerving...the colts are his usual field neighbours but both are cut & tend to spend every nano second of their day head down stuffing as much as they physically can...no new smells or clothing...and yes I had a shower before doing them hehe so wasn't me offending him!!;-) He lives next to my goats and used to nanny one when her mum passed away and they were lazily sunbathing/eating at the time..I know what you mean re playful, but it was a definite determined attack with real focus and aggression..even my girl who helps out grooming from time to time was utterly shocked when I rang her its so out of character-normally he would wait till let loose then move safely away, check where I am then prat about but in a safe sane woohoo kind of way then eat. I did wonder if he may be jealous of my dog-new addition after I lost my beloved 15 yr old rough collie in April & rescued my new boy in June. Re any new stress he may have picked up on...he usually nannies me and helps me if I'm having bad days-I have an ongoing medical disaster really!one of my mares reared & fell on me on concrete after leaping up a grass bank & broke every vertebrae (of mine)& my sternum (so I am very creaky now!) & as was misdiagnosed I wasn't treated properly(only for 4 vertebra!) and had nerve & spinal cord damage have now got fibromyalgia & ME as a result...he is usually my steady hand and even when he goes out with the mares on the hill fields & they fly off, he will walk along by me quietly helping me up the hill at my pace and is so careful..thats why I worry it may be underlying. I've taken mane pics and do keep a diary..but as you all know theres nothing like the experience of others to put your mind at ease! I'm hoping it was just an off day & a one off..but in the back of my mind I'm not so sure...blinking vets! I hope I don't have to wait till monday before they remember to ring!!;-)
 
OH I'm so sorry for your friends loss, it must have been hard for you too having known him so long...its heartbreaking but when they give us so much its worth all the tears. Thank you for mentioning this as it will only be changes i notice that will show the true story-I don't care what anyone says but vets never know your horse as well as you do..sometimes you need to push a bit to get them to look further...tho I'm hoping he's having a delayed teenage rebellion or something nice & simple like the grass.Time will tell I guess...and in the mean time...all I need to do is track down the munchkin that chewed the flexible part of my brand new lunge whip which is now a schooling whip & a fillet string at best!:-)
 
Is there any chance that he caught himself on an electric fence - or maybe got a shock from one shorting out?

Have a look at what you are feeding him now that you are bringing him in. I'd suggest that maybe for a couple of weeks you cut ouot all his hard feed, and feed ad lib hay instead. Until he is behaving either lead out in a bridle, or lunge cavesson, with a long lead and please wear a helmet.
 
YorksG said:
Hello, nice to meet you, just wish it was under happier circumstances! Your morning sounds pretty hairy :eek: Have there been any changes round and about, such as pigs, goats etc been put in nearby fields? Just thinking that the smell might have freaked him out. Otherwise things like wasps nest spring to mind, unless there is something wrong with him. The other thing I would be looking at is if he has had a change of feed, even a new bag of feed that may have some contaminent in, or a change of ingrediants which you are not aware of. The latter is very much worth a look at.
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Those would be the things I looked at. Too sudden to be much else with a horse this kind. Could even be a change of perfume or deodorant for the poster?

Please don't take any risks and make sure you are not handling him alone until this is resolved.
 
If you are anything like us, there is still a lot of goodness in the grass and horses are feeling very 'well'

I had a similar incident with a TB ex racer, that is usually so laid back he has trouble in standing!
I was bringing him and another horse in when he spooked at nothing, trod on my heel, tripping me and then proceeded to mess around like a lunatic.

I doubt it was anything other than him feeling well, showing off and totally forgetting his manners.

If I had gone back to him with the whip and he prated around then he would have felt what a whip was for and got a good crack across his legs. If a horse that knows better, puts me at risk then he will get the fright of his life because I will reciprocate with frightening the bejesus out of them. (Not necessarily beating the crap out of them ether)
 
I would be suspicious about the changes to his mane. I've seen a horse with cushings/lami and the only "sign" was that her ears had become fluffy.

Suggest you speak to vet and please take care to wear hat, carry phone etc when you are handling your horse.
 
I've seen a horse with cushings/lami and the only "sign" was that her ears had become fluffy.
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my thoughts exactly. And cushings can lead to dramatic changes in behaviour. Although i agree it could link in with some kind of brain tumor. But it could equally be something simplar- food or just feeling well. But it sounds a bit viscious to be a feeling well excitement...that usually doesnt involve hooves aimed at a persons head especially in a normally gentle soul.
Speak to your vet and get blood tests done would be my point of call. Also wear hat gloves lunge line until its resolved.
 
Hi, how scarey. It does seem to be an odd thing to have happen to a normally nice horse. I hope the vet rings you back pretty sharpish, I think I would be really worried about him.
Please wear a hat and stay safe. Let us know what happens
 
I ws thinking cushings too. There are so many different ways it can affect them. My Gelding was diagnosed at 14 & one of my mares has just been diagnosed at 19.
My friends horse was pts with a suspected brain tumour after her attacked her out of the blue in the field.
Good luck OP & keep us updated. i hope it's nothing :-) x
 
Sounds like he was having a bit of a 'woopie' moment. When they go up like that yanking the rope just makes it worse, and although frightening for you I can't believe there was any maliciousness intended.

Have a little look at your turn out arrangements. It's usually the obvious and simplest solutions that solve a problem.

Does he have company in his field?
 
How terrifying for you especially bad as from horse you know well.
With the mane changing as well I thought cushing's too. My boy has it and before he was diagnosed he changed in himself although he wasn't aggressive but their all different. I would have the vet, no question. In the meantime could you use a control halter to give you a bit more control when leading him and/or possibly leave him out?

I hope nothing that cant be solved. Stay safe.
 
for goodness sake all TB's, ex racehorses, horses in training even cobs do this when they are feeling well and want to be let off the lead and have a good ole gallop, and if you are going to be in their vicinity esp when they see you as being part of their herd they are going to want to play but they dont think rationally like humans cos they are horses, even my Cob was prancing about when i put him in the field this morning, i dont think he has an ass-tumor when he farted though!!!!
 
beeswax said:
for goodness sake all TB's, ex racehorses, horses in training even cobs do this when they are feeling well and want to be let off the lead and have a good ole gallop, and if you are going to be in their vicinity esp when they see you as being part of their herd they are going to want to play but they dont think rationally like humans cos they are horses, even my Cob was prancing about when i put him in the field this morning, i dont think he has an ass-tumor when he farted though!!!!
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Gosh....mine don't and I wouldn't accept that behaviour as playful!! And this was when she was bringing her chap in. Prancing a bit and maybe a bit of a spin when they get to the field and want to out but I have never had one rear and strike at my face! As this is out of character I would be concerned if I was the OP too...
 
I do think that if he does it again you should be prepared to hit him firmly with something, never mind flicking him with the lead-rope. He has to know that this is unacceptable. I read that you had just had a shower before you led him out, did you use a new shower-gel?
I used to have a TBx whose behaviour could be very erratic and got worse over the years. She threatened every-one she came into contact with but was always very careful not to hurt me. That behaviour was eventually found to be caused by food. She often did appear to be 'beside herself' but as I say never completely lost control. She was like a different horse when we changed her diet.
 
My first thought when you mentioned the curly mane was Cushings as well. I think your vet should pay him a visit and take bloods.

Brain tumours do cause horses to behave spectacularly badly ,very suddenly, for no reason. Years ago I worked with a "devil" horse who was usually very well behaved and quiet, but would suddenly turn on you for no reason. The owner had him pts because of his increasing unpredictability and it was discovered he had a brain tumour.

I really don't think hitting your horse will help.
 
beeswax said:
for goodness sake all TB's, ex racehorses, horses in training even cobs do this when they are feeling well and want to be let off the lead and have a good ole gallop, and if you are going to be in their vicinity esp when they see you as being part of their herd they are going to want to play but they dont think rationally like humans cos they are horses, even my Cob was prancing about when i put him in the field this morning, i dont think he has an ass-tumor when he farted though!!!!
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Do your horses really regularly behave as the OP describes, Beeswax? :eek:

There's a difference between "prancing about" and rearing up and striking at a person's head! I don't blame the OP for being unnerved.
 
No mine do not rear up at me because they know better and they also do enough work and get enough turn out that they wouldnt feel fresh, but i do watch 200 racehorses everyday doing their thing and those that are fresh or have the wind up their tail do rear up and naturally strike out, but that doesnt mean they are deliberatly striking out at the handler, it is just the way their front legs go when they rear and may seem that they are striking out. TB's believe it or not were bred to be more flight/fright animals than others so it doesnt surprise me when i see it happen and it tends to happen more when the lead has got a bit long whilst leading the horse or the persons body has moved away from its shoulder whilst leading the horse, it is a horse thing, what does concern me (and I am entitled to my opinion whilst others may not agree or like it) is there are so many people getting horses and possibly the wrong type of horse for their experience and the minute it does anything normal to a horse but out of the ordinary to a human it suddenly has a tumour or cushings or some other problem, instead of the likely hood that it is over fed, not exercised enough, handled by a not so confident person and/or being led out/ridden in windy conditions, all you have to do is look at the H&H forum there are posts on a regular basis about this.
 
A horse also does not know what the different parts of the human body are all they see us as is a complete thing so I do not believe it is striking out at the persons head because it knows it is the persons head and if it strikes at that part of this thing it is going to injure it. It is called a horses height vs human height thing.
 
You poor thing, not only would it be awful to happen with any horse but your sane dependable friend is un nerving.

A few years ago- i borrowed a friends 100% safe pony who they had owned years with no problem to take my little girl out for a ride (me on foot) half way round he suddenly went absolutely mental- I managed to get my daughter out the way as he reared, spun bucked everything. I took it home and the owners very very worried called a vet who found what looked like a snake bite by his hind hoof. He has never behaved badly since (this is the only time from the age of 4-13 yrs)

We assume the bite occurred at this moment?
 
Tammytoo said:
This lady has had this horse for seven years and it's the first time it's done this. Sounds a bit more worrying that just high spirits!
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I agree. When you know a horse so well and have worked with it for so long, you also know straight away if its behaviour is completely out of character.

If there's been no change of diet or routine I think a caring owner would be wise to have her horse checked out for possible health problems.
 
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