My tb's feet one week on!!!! Can't believe it.

[PapaFrita]

I'm really happy and also have a different farrier coming to trim him next time who seems to understand bare foot.
And to think a few months ago I was so anti " no shoes"

I used to have mine barefoot when I lived in the UK. It was actually my farrier who suggested it so I'm rather surprised when people say their farriers are against it.

 

[indie999]

I did have mine in shoes and due to retirement they are off with no problem(although they are better since the nail holes are grown out). I will ask my 100 year old farrier(he isnt really 100) as he turned his nose up when bare foot was mentioned but I am going to interrogate him further as to why he thinks barefoot isnt the way to go?? I have no idea why he was against it. I hope its not financial that he is going to lose money if everyone just has a trim? But anyone else had a response from their farrier on why some are against it.

A lot of the horses I viewed recently were barefoot and they looked fine although a few of the owners seemed to think they didnt like shingle ie on driveways. If I am honest I preferred to know if the horse would take shoes if needed. But most of the bare feet I saw looked very strong and healthy.

 

[TigerTail]

I ask because my horses are given hard feed, supplements,

That will be your problem - the contents of the feed/ supplements. Give us a list of what theyre fed Remember you are what you eat - and what horses eat comes out in their feet.

 

[Jesstickle]

I used to have mine barefoot when I lived in the UK. It was actually my farrier who suggested it so I'm rather surprised when people say their farriers are against it.

You weren't near me too were you PF?

 

[JessandCharlie]

Fantastic, isn't it?

I had little Ozz's shoes taken off a few months ago, and Len's taken off on Thursday. Both have moved so differently straight away. Much more confident and free.

Must stress that my farrier is fantastic, and never shod them badly and yet there was a definite difference. He was also totally supportive of my decision.

Won't be going back any time soon

J&C

 

[amandap]

As someone who has hardly shod my horses behind for 10yrs what is the secret? I ask because my horses are given hard feed, supplements, etc & yet when we have tried fully bare-foot we have failed because the foot was not growing enough for the work being done. Even now after all these years one of them might have to return to hind shoes because her feet are wearing too quickly. Also TBH I am not sure about using boots for eventing, anyone have photos? If I could have my horses bare-foot I would, especially when one mare returns to work after foaling.

Is he sore or 'footy'? Growth of horn starts to speed up quite quickly and I believe it's very unusual for horses hooves to wear too much. Barefoot hooves should be short, the wall is only slightly above the live calloused sole. The wall only sometimes needs leaving slightly longer at the heels if the back of the hoof is weak. Here's some pics to show what I mean. http://www.progressivehorse.co.uk/html/pin-ups.html

 

[PapaFrita]

You weren't near me too were you PF?

I was in Cambridge

 

[Jesstickle]

I was in Cambridge

I thought you were a Cambridge person. I seem to have this strange, almost stalkerish, ability to remember when people live near me! I don't do it on purpose though I promise.

Must be something about the farriers of Cambridge it would seem. Dafthoss is near here too

 

[cptrayes]

Also TBH I am not sure about using boots for eventing, anyone have photos? .

Boots are not allowed in BE eventing and most RC/local events follow BE rules. I evented to Novice without.

 

[cptrayes]

As someone who has hardly shod my horses behind for 10yrs what is the secret? I ask because my horses are given hard feed, supplements, etc & yet when we have tried fully bare-foot we have failed because the foot was not growing enough for the work being done. Even now after all these years one of them might have to return to hind shoes because her feet are wearing too quickly.

What do you mean by "wearing too quickly"?

Unless the horse is sore, there is no such thing as wearing too quickly. Bare feet are usually very short. If your horse was sore, that's probably a nutrition issue.

 

[PapaFrita]

I thought you were a Cambridge person. I seem to have this strange, almost stalkerish, ability to remember when people live near me! I don't do it on purpose though I promise.

Must be something about the farriers of Cambridge it would seem. Dafthoss is near here too

How funny, and most strange Maybe it is Cambridge farriers.

 

[superpony]

I am another convert!

My tb has been having remedial shoeing for the past 18 months for navicular and for the past 4 months we couldn't keep him sound, he was getting worse and worse with each shoeing.

He had his shoes took off 3 weeks ago and the difference is unbelivable he is sound and striding out, hoping to get back on him soon! Something which a few months ago looked like was never going to happen again!

 

[tonitot]

My mare is going completly barefoot on Thursday although this is only because I'm not able to ride for up to 6 weeks (injured myself) so she'll just be in the field. She has spavins in her hocks which the vet has said will be okay if she's kept in work and has shoes with raised heels on her hinds. I'd love to have her barefoot the whole time but vet has said she really needs the shoes to help her spavins. Has anyone got any advice on this as to whether she could go barefoot? well done with your horse OP

 

[Oberon]

As someone who has hardly shod my horses behind for 10yrs what is the secret? I ask because my horses are given hard feed, supplements, etc & yet when we have tried fully bare-foot we have failed because the foot was not growing enough for the work being done. Even now after all these years one of them might have to return to hind shoes because her feet are wearing too quickly. Also TBH I am not sure about using boots for eventing, anyone have photos? If I could have my horses bare-foot I would, especially when one mare returns to work after foaling.

Hooves are designed to do 15 - 20 miles a day, every day from the second day of birth. They thrive on work and abuse on all surfaces.

So why do our domestic horses not cope?

Is it the riding?
I don't think so - not many of our horses will be doing 15 - 20 miles a day and I can't imagine anyone weighs so much that they affect the wear of the hooves that badly....

It's all about diet and hoof care.

Hooves WILL outgrow wear every time. You will wear your backside out first
But ONLY when we provide the correct fuel for the growth.
Unfortunately this often means 'going off of the menu' as far as commercial feeds go

.

Hoof care is trimming sympathetically to encourage the hoof - not to stifle it.

These are all tips picked up from those who have gone before us. We learn from their failures and successes.

 

[Oberon]

P.S. Barefoot endurance horses have some of the best hooves around. And they can do 80+ miles a day without wearing their hooves out and STILL need trimming

 

[cptrayes]

My mare is going completly barefoot on Thursday although this is only because I'm not able to ride for up to 6 weeks (injured myself) so she'll just be in the field. She has spavins in her hocks which the vet has said will be okay if she's kept in work and has shoes with raised heels on her hinds. I'd love to have her barefoot the whole time but vet has said she really needs the shoes to help her spavins. Has anyone got any advice on this as to whether she could go barefoot? well done with your horse OP

Your mare is not going barefoot she will be temporarily shoeless.

I have had two spavined horses barefoot. One has never been lame but he has a lump, and I am not exaggerating, the size of half a boiled egg. He competes affiliated dressage Medium and trains at Advanced. The other worked through with a bit of bute for a while and is now sound.

Your horse does not need shoes to help her spavins, she needs to be allowed to grow the lopsided (higher on the inside) foot that she will produce if you leave her to grow her own foot.

 

[Oberon]

My mare is going completly barefoot on Thursday although this is only because I'm not able to ride for up to 6 weeks (injured myself) so she'll just be in the field. She has spavins in her hocks which the vet has said will be okay if she's kept in work and has shoes with raised heels on her hinds. I'd love to have her barefoot the whole time but vet has said she really needs the shoes to help her spavins. Has anyone got any advice on this as to whether she could go barefoot? well done with your horse OP

If you search on here there has been discussion on this recently, with input from people who've gone barefoot with spavined horses.

We freaks believe that with a pathology, the horse will grow the hoof balance it needs to in order to stabilise the limb. Even with Xrays and the best farrier in the world, a human can't duplicate this in the way the horse can.
Barefooters have reported improvements in spavined horses when this balance is respected.

This isn't documented science, so the vets don't recognise this and won't recommend it

This seems to go for some farriers too

Obviously the dietry advice in order to provide enough growth to match wear also applies...

 

[tonitot]

Thanks for the correction, but I'm hoping to have her go barefoot permanently. She goes lame if she's not worked, but goes sound again once back in work. Someone else mentioned about letting the heel grow so they're naturally raised, I haven't asked my vet about that yet but I asked him before if she definatly needed the shoes and he was adamant that she had to have them. Would a trimmer be better than a farrier with regards to allowing her feet to grow lopsided? Would it be better to start my own thread on this rather than hijacking

 

[cptrayes]

Tonitot you are unfortunate with your vet who is simply trotting out his received wisdom.

You should not allow her to grow high heels as that would remove her frog from ground bearing where it needs to be. What will probably happen, though, is that she will develop the internal structures of her foot and her heel will get "meatier" as opposed to just "higher". She will, if she does what mine have done, grow one collateral groove deeper than the other. Her foot will not look lopsided, but internally that's how it will be and it will be what she needs for her level of lameness at the time.

Many farriers are good barefoot trimmers, it depends on your farrier. Things to watch out for are trimming the sole (normally a complete no-no), sculpting the frog into shape and allowing the horse to grow a "horseshoe" of hoof wall. Normal barefoot horses walk on the inside edge of the wall, the frog, the heels and parts of their sole particularly at the toe.

It is a hard thing to go against your vet but we will help if we can.

 

[tonitot]

Thanks Santa Paws, think I will make my own thread tomorrow to get more info about her diet and other things to help me understand it all better

 

[Oberon]

Thanks for the correction, but I'm hoping to have her go barefoot permanently. She goes lame if she's not worked, but goes sound again once back in work. Someone else mentioned about letting the heel grow so they're naturally raised, I haven't asked my vet about that yet but I asked him before if she definatly needed the shoes and he was adamant that she had to have them. Would a trimmer be better than a farrier with regards to allowing her feet to grow lopsided? Would it be better to start my own thread on this rather than hijacking

Not that I'm suggesting you go against the advice of your vet....

but one of my favourite sayings is, "Never follow anyone over a cliff"

If you think you are right, then try it. You can always put shoes back on if it doesn't work.
All the barefooters with spavined horses who I know of have found improvements in each horse.

Most professionals view hooves as things that need supporting, guiding and moulding and that without the right intervention, they will break down and take the rest of the horse down too.

The secret that we are finding is that the hooves are actually dynamic. They will adapt and support the body in times of trouble. The problems come in when we start interfering with this process. In cases such as this, it's not about growing this or trimming that - it's about standing back and trusting them. Provide the nutrition and they'll do the rest.
They are amazing.

 

[Gracie]

Santa Paws i'd love your advice- ive been barefoot with my 4yr old TB for a year now and the improvement in her feet, as a result of intelligent feeding (speedibeet and micronised linseed, soaked hay, appropriate supplements to support gut function -charcoal, pink powder + Calmag etc and daily exercise has been brilliant. However a couple of things concern me, studs for eventing have been described to me as having a similar effect to wearing football boots whilst running across a muddy field. Although her feet should be able to feel the terrain best without shoes, im not convinced she'll have the grip and power she could have with studs in. Do you think wearing plastic shoes (eponas) could be an option?

Secondly id love to go out hunting, but my cavallo's really don't stay on when faced with ploughed and very muddy fields. Even with all the improvement in her feet, she remains footy on stony ground without them. In an ideal world i'd build up work over stony terrain slowly, but the dark nights and long working days mean the only regular exercise options I have are the sandschool and horsewalker. Again im wondering if plastic shoes glued on to the hoof could work, or if there is anything better than the cavallos!

 

[tallyho!]

What a lovely thread to read first thing on a Sunday with my coffee

OP, I think you will find all will be well. Stick to the diet rules, spring will be very hard as grass is so sugary and this really affects hooves. I used a muzzle last spring, needed our boots a few times. Had a confusing period with alfalfa - had to take him off it, but back on it no probs now - it is definitely a learning curve. Read as much as you can and don't be afraid to get second opinions from EPAUK or UKNHCP if needed.

One thing I found useful is monitoring wee. I know, hardly glamorous. If cloudy and smelly, detox needed and diet needs "cleaning". I found Roger Hatch at Trinity Consultants the most interesting and knowlegdeable man. Call him if you need a detox. Global herbs do a good one, but not as good as Roger's.

Oh and also do a fair bit of crest-wobbling. Wobbly crest = ok. Stiff crest = eeeekkkk - get t'muzzle on 'im!!!!!

Nice to see lots of people paddling their own canoes

Being barefoot is just that. No two horses are the same, one's bf diet will be different to anothers' depending on the needs of that individual.

I must admit, I also went along with convention for many years believing horses needed shoes (if it ain't broke ) until.................... I met my special horse. He taught me a single most valuable lesson... be brave and listen to your instincts. They are always right.

 

[tallyho!]

Secondly id love to go out hunting, but my cavallo's really don't stay on when faced with ploughed and very muddy fields. Even with all the improvement in her feet, she remains footy on stony ground without them. In an ideal world i'd build up work over stony terrain slowly, but the dark nights and long working days mean the only regular exercise options I have are the sandschool and horsewalker. Again im wondering if plastic shoes glued on to the hoof could work, or if there is anything better than the cavallos!

In an ideal world, you would give her the time she needs to grow you a hunting foot. In this instance, I would put shoes back on if you want to go out hunting as your mare clearly won't cope all that well.

The hoof is indeed a simple marvel but one that takes time to adjust. It adjusts quickly, however, unless you can provide conditioning for the hoof to cope with terrain you want to go over after removing shoes, it is unlikely to cope.

Glue on shoes are indeed an option.. I have no experience with them. Maybe someone else has...

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

Mag ox is excellent for helping footy barefoot horses (especially spring and autumn), usually see a difference in about a week. I have kept all sorts of horses barefoot (TB's, Irish draught, cons, ponies, navicular case, bone and big spavin

 

[Miss L Toe]

My tbx developed collapsed heels this year and despite my farriers efforts with wedges etc she was still going lame - vet didn't recommend taking off her shoes because she is so flat soled but I felt I didn't have any choice - she has always been barefoot on her hind feet - so off the shoes came. Immediately she was sounder on soft ground but obviously too sore for hard ground. Cavallo boots didn't fit brilliantly - were ok for a short walk however I have just read today that they need breaking in like a new pair of shoes - so will persist with them next spring - giving her the winter off for her feet to grow back to normally - fingers crossed.

The cavallos must not swivel when you put them on, if they do they are to big, it is only the leather that needs breaking in, can be softened with oil

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

The secret is, good diet, less than 10% starch and low sugar (low sugar sugar beat is fab) with high fibre and oil, access to fibre all yr round, especially when grass growing and sugar levels r high (so plenty of soaked hay, ensures sugars digested in correct part of gut), regular exercise (booted if needed, cavellos and old macs r good), annual teeth/back/saddle checks, but most of all a barefoot trimmer (look up equine podiatry). These often don't cost much less than having shoes, but they r worth their weight in gold!!

 

[Gracie]

Love it that everyone is up so early : ), thank you for your replies

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

Ps going barefoot is not a quick fix, but please persist if u have the time. My friends TB has taken about 3 months to come sound. But we have had to get his diet right and address other issue (rotated pelivis), on the other hand my navicular horse came sound straight off!! Also time ur transition to barefoot right. Horses hoof growth generally slows down considerably in the winter. U may find when tge grass suddenly grows so do their feet, so it may b better to wait until spring if the footage structure needs to improve a lot! Talk to an EP for specific advice on this. Xx

 

[Gracie]

Im going to stick with barefoot as i do think it is the way forward. Maybe i can find someone to hack her out in the winter while im in the office... depressing thought! Am interested in others experiences barefoot out eventing though, wondering how their horses handle it without studs... Ps it is great to chat to you all, my yard is very traditional and everyone there has told me to put shoes on! Gets a bit boring after a while!