My Worst Nightmare!

Vixxy

Vixxy

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2007
Messages
1,265
Location
Norway
Visit site
I sold a healthy fit 11 yr old 16.1h Branded British Warmblood 9mths ago and suddenly this week the owner is threatening to take me to court :( Warm buttery muffins and tea if you continue reading ;)

I am really upset about it all, she claims the horse has degenerative illnesses that I hid from her (but she has not actually named) apparently 3 vets have confirmed various problems but none have been named as to what they actually are. I had the horse 5 stage vetted in the UK 2 years ago before importing the mare which she passed of course otherwise I would not have bought her. The only reason I sold the mare on was due to the fact I had 2 horses and my illness had worsened at that time and I facing a hard Norwegian winter so kept the one I had owned the longest and was more hardy. The horse is now out on loan and the husband of the lady who has her on loan is a solicitor and has explained to the girl who bought the horse from me 9mths ago she has a very strong case against me.

I have various e mails form her, the first explaining that she was an amazing horse but had tripped in the school in a dressage lesson and was lame on the leg she tripped on 2 weeks after she bought her. Then a couple more positive mails, at Christmas when she ordered something from my tack shop I even sent her and the horse a small gift each and all was fine. Now 9mths on she is claiming that I purposely misled her and the horse has failed a flexion test on 3 legs and has been lame for all the time she has owned her. According to her therapist and 3 different vets and has the look and body condition of a 25 year old horse. She also is claiming she has tried to contact me with no reply, but I have a tack shop with two phone lines (one to me directly and one customer service line)and cannot 'screen' my calls or I would have no customers. The horrifying thing is she has left the horse out all winter 24/7 in a 40 acre field with a rug on in 25- and snow (stated in her letter of complaint). I did warn her at the time she bought the horse she needed stabling and fuss to keep her in the good condition I sold her in as she was a poor doer. The girl is asking for all her money back and I take back the mare.

I am really confused by this as the horse was jumping over 1m at home, doing dressage with a very good American dressage rider who was working for me the summer before I sold her and had never been lame with me in the year I owned her or sick at all. The girl who bought her did not have her vetted, she turned up paid me and took the horse due to living 9 hrs away. We had a standard selling contract that we both signed.

I have contacted the vet that I had vet her two years ago in the UK and he is faxing me a copy of the passed vetting (I cannot find my copy as it was so long ago), he is saying the girl has no case as she the bought the horse as seen and I can prove I did not 'hide anything' due to me having the horse vetted and a clean pass a year before I sold her. I have people who have offered witness statements, a lady on the board of the local riding club who rode the horse just a few days before I sold the horse and a competition rider who was riding her not long before the sale who can verify she was not lame. I also have people who saw adverts of the horse up for sale last winter not long after I sold her to the girl in the time she claims the horse was lame, being sold as a healthy fit horse (she has not mentioned to me) :confused:

I think I have a good case and nothing to fear but I am worried as I have never been in this position before. The thought of having to reply to her defending myself in between our huge farm move 9 hours away is daunting. Why does life have to be so difficult? :(

I am going to write to her with all the evidence I have and I am thinking to end it with the details of an equine solicitor stating that if she still feels she has a case to deal with my solicitor directly.Please could I have your thoughts, how would you reply to her? I add lastly it is very unlikely she will read this as she is in Norway.
 
Goodness poor you. I am so sorry it has come to this... no advice but best of luck. It sounds like they wont have a leg to stand on once you ave written back to them....
 
I'm fairly sure they don't have a leg to stand on but is it possible that if you give them all of your evidince they will have time to find something to counter it? I don't think you have anything to worry about but it's still horrible
 
I really dont think she has a leg to stand on, and if I were you I wouldnt write to her, but only deal with her via a solicitor now she is playing that game. Getting a solicitor is no indication of guilt, its merely a way to go so you dont have to deal iwth such a difficult woman. Let us know how you get on, and be reassured it will be ok!!xxx
 
The girl who bought her did not have her vetted, she turned up paid me and took the horse due to living 9 hrs away. We had a standard selling contract that we both signed.
Click to expand...

What did that contract say?

I wouldn't worry too much. I really don't think she has a hope in hell of a case, but the sounds of things.
 
I would write nothing to her, nor speak to her and go straight to a solicitor. Have them write her a letter. This will prob get her off your case immediately and if not you haven't written anything that may negatively impact your case if she persists in being an idiot!! Good luck and try not to worry! :-)
 
Thank you for the support, I know I have not done anything wrong BUT it still feels absolutely horrible. I hate confrontation, my first reaction was no problem I will buy her back get her looking healthy again and put her in foal :eek: My husband was like NOOOO, you have just bought an expensive new horse! I am such a pushover, but on this one OH is right, I just don't want her back as hard as that sounds. Ohhh I hate all this legal stuff, my OH told me to write back myself first giving all the evidence and explaining things from my point of view then leave the ball in her court to realise she has no case or she will then go to her solicitor and he/she will tell her she has no case. I am unsure what to do :(
 
i am another one who wouldn't send her all of your evidence to counter her claims.

i would send a letter saying that all future contact should be through your solicitor and give her their details.
 
Puppy it was a standard contract from the Norwegian horse societies website. It is standard practise in Norway to complete this contract. It lists the sellers/buyers full details horses details, the fact she had no vetting, she did try the horse both on the school and out on a hack, a trial was not requested/offered and to end as far as I knew the horse was fit healthy and suitable for the purpose sold. She had the right by Norwegian law to return the horse for any reason within 2 weeks, she did not do this and has only made a complaint 9 months on.
 
eesh, *hugs* Don't understand why people do this... surely any horse can go lame, vetted or not? Surely she doesn't really have a hope anyway as she did not have the horse vetted? Therefore it's simply her word against yours?
No idea, but I hope it's resolved soon and the poor mare is ok (:
 
Oh pooh! I think you are wise to collect any evidence that you can but keep it to yourself - def wouldn't send it to her at this stage, maybe just reply stating that the horse was sound when you sold it, she signed the sale contract and chose not to have it vetted so you will not be refunding or taking the horse back.

Is there a Noggy equivalent of Citizen's Advice that could help you? Or a solicitor who might give you 30 mins free advice?
 
Sadly not in Norway Wobblywibble no free consultations, there is trading standards that offers advice in cases of disputes. I have the name of one of the only equine solicitors in Norway my good friend has used (the one on the board of riding club) when dealing with a person claiming the pony she bought from my friend was dangerous. My friend had it taken no further after writing back offering statements and this solicitors details. It appears she is threatening me with a standard solicitor who is the husband of the lady that is loaning the horse.

She has provided no evidence to support her claims but has offered it if I wish to see it. The vet in the UK said her only possible angle is that I sold a horse knowing she had a degenerative illness. He said that it is hard to prove when this would have started if indeed it is true and no vet would support her in pursuing that claim 9 months after the sale. He said the fact I had her 5 staged and she passed when I bought her a year before shows no ill intent on my behalf. He said it would be viewed that she has had problems, got the mare into a poor state and is now trying to blame it on me.

I worry as there was just a huge court case here that made the national news only weeks ago where a buyer took a seller to court for selling a horse that after the sale failed flexion tests and it turned out the horse had bone spavin. The seller had to pay back the money for the horse and all costs. Norway is not used to cases like these as Norway is not of a court culture.
 
9 months later she decides the horse is lame....... i really dont think she has a leg to stand on at all.

especially as she never had the horse vetted.

what an absolute pain though.

Oh i bought a caar a year ago, and now the head gaskets gone - i want money back. Surely its the same sort of thing.
 
No help but lots of sympathy! I'm trudging through an employment tribunal atm, & like you am also finding it a nuisance having to trawl about assembling evidence. I also hate confrontation & it's like a constant black cloud, so I know how you feel. We'll both feel better when it's done & dusted.
 
There are people out there who try it on as a hobby! I breed dogs,and every now and then a joker emerges,thank God for my puppy contract that clearly states everything.I will always take a dog back,no matter it`s age..but am not a "dog library".I would ignore this,no contact,ball in her court and see what happens.Don`t feed her with anything.
 
I must admit I would go straight to a solicitor just in case in any reply I made I unwittingly did something wrong (if that made sense).

Have some honey for your buttered crumpets - I think this appalling! I personally don't think she has a leg to stand on but the law can be a strange thing so please get advice.

But I'd also be interested to know why a horse that has been lame for 9 months is out on loan!

Good luck - and I hope you're new, beautiful horse cheers you up xxx
 
Mistral that is exactly what the vet in the UK said! He compared the situation to a used car out of warranty.

Ohh my sympathies catembi, it is just hassle isn't it? Grr, has to be dealt with but...
 
9 months later! I'm sure she doesn't have a leg to stand on, but either way, I really, really wouldn't send all your evidence! Her solicitor will be laughing. I'd see your solicitor straight away so they can advise you what to do. good luck :)
 
I wouldn't worry to be honest...sounds like she regrets buying and is using this as her get out claus....echo the others deal only through solicitors, i bet this puts her off!! More fool her for not having the vetting!!
 
If I understand this right, this horse was sold under Norwegian law and if this woman wishes to pursue her case she will do so under Norwegian law? If that's the case I don't think an English vet or an English forum necessarily know anything about how it might play out.

It does seem that the woman has no leg to stand on BUT I have no clue about Norwegian laws. I would strongly suggest you spend the money required to contact a specialist, Norwegian, equine solicitor to advise you on the first step, rather than do something yourself than might affect a potential defence later. It is really stressful and unfair that you have to deal with this, but I think you have to deal with it, in which case it is better to get professional advice and do it right.

I hope the woman gives up after your solicitor's letter.
 
Booboos I think that is why I am nervous, I am unclear on Norwegian law. My husband has never dealt with a situation like this either so he is not so much help. I think on Monday I will meet up with my good friend who is Norwegian and is on the board of the riding club. I will show her all the e mails back and forth over the past 9 months (none of which are complaining in anyway) and then the 4 page complaint letter I received on Friday. I hope she will help me with the Norwegian solicitor as although my Norwegian is good I do not want anything confused between languages. My friend has already said I can call over for coffee on Monday and she will help anyway she can.

I think the worst part of this is being abroad with a foreign language. I think I just go the specialist equine solicitor route and have no contact with the buyer myself. I have read the letter but have not replied in anyway so far, which is probably the best until I have spoken with the solicitor.
 
If you have the money and the land, I'd be tempted to offer to buy her back at a reduced price and keep her as a big pet.

If you don't have the money or the land, then either ignore her or ignore then fight this one out in the courts, you are in the right -if she wasn't certified healthy by a vet when you sold her, then it's her fault for not getting a vetting done.

Horses can go lame at any time - mine has, you just can't blame the previous owner, like this one is trying to .....
 
I have just bought a rather expensive new horse, it is very complicated but my very long term horse had to be PTS ohh 4 yrs ago now, the grey in my sig was bought before my horse was PTS for my groom at the time to have something to ride. He was never really suitable for me but I inherited him when I decided to no longer employ grooms after some 4 years of employing. I did not look for a replacement for my horse for many years until the horse in question came up and with grooms/riders help (before my decision to go it alone) we could keep her in the right amount of work and in lovely condition. In honesty she was not really suitable for my needs alone so I decided to sell both horses and buy something finally for me, I just needed sometime to get over Taffy's death and not have one of my 'own'. I have spent the past four months just with my boys pony we have owned for 7 years and spent the time searching for the right horse which I have just secured.

Taking her back is not really an option due to my illness which was the reason for selling her, I have time and physical capabilities for just one riding horse and the boys pony. I also think if I offered to take her back at a reduced price she would see it as an admission of guilt and then try for the full amount she paid. I think the horse is now in better hands at the loan home, she claims she is being loaned out as a companion.

The girl who bought her was quite novicey and the only reason I sold her to the girl then in her late teens with parental support was due to the fact she was buying the horse to go to equine college for a year. So I was satisfied she would have the help and support to properly look after the mare but after the horse tripped and went lame she had to leave the college as she had no riding horse and all the school horses were already allocated (she has only just made me aware of this).

I think both her parents and herself had no idea what they were taking on financially or the ups and owns of horse ownership in hindsight and I will live to regret the sale deeply and my choice of buyer. I think had it all worked out and she stayed at college all would have been fine but the horse then going from stable luxury and expert care to a 40 acre field on the cheap in a rug in minus 25 and snow I did not foresee at all. I hope she will be cared for properly in the loan home with people who know what they are doing.

I have sold many horses and ponies over my 30 years in horses and have never lived to regret a sale until now. I do not regret the decision to sell her but I do deeply regret that I did not foresee the 'what if's' with the buyer.
 
Sounds like a good plan and your friend could perhaps help with the language issues. Scary as all this sounds to you and me, I would imagine the equine solicitor has seen it all a thousand times over and he/she will be able to re-assure you and explain your options.
 
Don't think she ha a hope in hell after all this time and with the statements you can get - the fact she wass going to sell her etc. Be polite offer to take the horse if she returns it to you at her expense - but she will not get a refund! Good luck x
 
Poor you.

I had a similar situation last year where I sold my mare to an experienced horse woman, only for her to come back 6 months later saying she was dangerous, aggressive and unrideable! She threatened to sell her to the meat man if I did not buy her back, so I offered her the meat money for her, which she refused, then she proceeded with court action.
I was lucky in that several people had ridden my mare before I sold her, and could vouch for her nature and temperament. It sounds like you are in a similar situation as people other than you rode and handled her. I appreciate things could be different in Norway, but when I received the solicitors letter from her, I simply replied, making sure I covered every point she had raised in the letter, for most points saying 'I can provide witness statements for this' etc etc. I also repeated my offer to buy her back for meat money to save her from the meat man. This was on free advice from my insurance company. I did not hear anything else - I did not even have to provide the statements even though I had gone ahead and collected a few just in case. So I did not have to go through the expense of getting my own solicitor.
I would wait until you receive something formal from a solicitor and then respond stating that you have evidence (vet's certificates, emails etc) should it be required and see what happens. It sounds like she's trying it on to be honest.
Also, would she not have to PROVE you KNEW about the disease? Is it innocent until proven guilty over there??!

Good luck but I'm sure you'll be fine!
 
Thank you for sharing you experience with me ncarter, I feel a little bit panicked about it all. Although I am a business woman and deal in large sums everyday this is different, it is personal and related to personal money. I am buying a new farm, horse and upgrading my trailer all within a month which together is very costly then this bolt out of the blue makes me worry. I have committed so much to my hobby in the past month, if I suddenly had to come up with another 4k plus all cost (which are much higher in Norway) it would be a lot of money I would estimate ending up being around 8-10k :eek:

So it is constantly on my mind, I think I will feel better after chatting to my Norwegian horse friend tomorrow and then plan my next move. I think with moving farm so many hours away with animals, kids and a business life is stressful enough at the moment without this on top. I am the type of person that has never had a speeding ticket, parking ticket, never had any altercations with anyone before despite being in business since my early twenties. I NEED TO BREATHE :o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top