My Yearling tried to kill me tonight - sorry, bit long.

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Feeding Harvey has always been a drama. When he was really tiny his mum would kick out at him if he tried to have a nibble of her feed.
Ever since he's been a nightmare to feed in the stable. He'll put his ears flat on his head show his teeth and kick out at whoever the unlucky person is. And when i say kick, i dont mean a poncy one leg off the ground effort.. Im talking full on, back end in the air and one leg going at it hell for leather kind of kicking. Out of the stable he's a saint, and you can stand behind him, touch his legs and he wont bat an eyelid.
So today, i fed him in the stable for ease as id got another 2 to muck out, feed and turn out. And im always prepared if i have to feed him while he's in and i take a whip in with me. This is because my tack room where i make my feeds is at the back of my stable and i have to walk from the back to the front with feeds whilst being attacked by a 14hh yearling on two legs. I sometimes tie him up but this has resulted before in kicking out whilst tied up aswell, and the tie ring is next to the door making it even harder to get out.
So today, i was rushing and made the mistake of A. not tying him up and B. letting myself get into the position where he managed to corner me with his back end. Cue his back legs going hell for leather in my direction missing me by inches. So as i was carrying a whip, first reaction is to give him one sharp whack on the bottom. (shoot me down if you like, what would you have done in that position?)
Anyway, short sharp whack resulted in an even higher buck, and a kick that missed my head by inches. However i did manage to get out, albeit rather shaken.
I accept that it was foolish to have got into the situation where i managed to get cornered.. but has anyone any experience with youngsters who have been imprinted by their dams like this?
And any advice on how i can sort this problem out before someone really does get injured would be greatly appreciated!
Wine if you got this far!!
x
 
Not a youngter, but my friend bought a 9 yr old who was like this because of his dam. To the point you couldn't graze him in hand! We just used to feed him and stand at the stable door to begin with, then open the stable door a crack etc etc. Now we can feed him on a lead. He is still a bit stressy/fidgety (he's like that if you feed him alone in his stable), that may improve with more time, who knows.....
 
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So as i was carrying a whip, first reaction is to give him one sharp whack on the bottom. (shoot me down if you like, what would you have done in that position?)

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Dont blame you .. would've done the samee x
 
I would try feeding him in the stable with you standing at the door so he gets used to you being around and not taking the food. you could progress by making a dummy and tying it to the wall, moving it around the stable. Then feed outside and gradually stand closer and closer.
Use lots of voice aids but keep it simple. A stern No is all you need!
 
i had one like this, he'd had to fight for his feed as a youngster and was always horribly defensive of his bucket. i used to put his feed in his stable and leave well alone tbh.
tbh i'd use a lunge whip if you really think it's necessary to try to teach him not to kick out like that behind at people. if you give him a tap every time he does it, he'll hopefully learn that kicking isn't worth the aggro.

many years ago one of my youngsters nearly took my head off out in the field, his hoof whistled past my ear. i totally lost it, got him in and hit him a number of times with a lunge whip, while yelling my head off at him. i don't usually condone violence but i reacted from pure fear. but, he never kicked out again...

i expect i'll get criticised for reacting like that, but it made a dangerous horse safe to handle...
 
How about shaking a rope at his face when you are near the stable door so he backs off, when you are in the doorway, if he has his ears flat back, keep shaking the rope to keep him at a distance and say 'NO' in a stern voice, this may go on for a while but until he changes his attitude and approaches you slowly with his head lowered and with a reasonable unangry face, then put his bucket down and say 'good boy' and then walk off. you have to keep it up though and for the first few days it might need some perseverance. Keep the whip with you and use it if you need to, if the rope doesnt keep him at bay. You may even need to put the heacoller on and rope to stop him turning his bum, but still use another rope to make him back off and keep a distance.

It's not 'his' stable, it's your stable, you should feel safe.
 
Could you not feed him over the door, perhaps with you holding the feed bucket at his head end so he gets to know you and trust you won't take the feed away from him (and you have a stable door between you to keep you safe)??
 
I would have given him a right wolloping,
My friends 5 year old tried to kick her when she was walking out of stable when he had his feed. She is soft and wouldnt do anything so I smacked him.

I know some people will not agree but I do not fancy risking my life or having my friend kicked in the head for the sake of a horse. If a smack is what is needed then I will without a doubt give them a smack.

I am not into the whole lets smack a horse for everything it does, but I am not soft either.
Luckily my horse is a big softie and you only have to raise your voice and he knows, but my friend has got a right bolshy horse and hes had a few bashings.
He pinned her in the back of her stable when she first got him and I managed to get out of the tackroom and smack him with a schooling whip. didnt fancy a shorter one. Never did it again though. He is now one of the most well mannered horses you will meet. And no he hasnt been battered but he has had sharp smacks where needed.
 
Agree with you Lippy. If he's willing to wallop you, then you're well within your rights to wallop him back! It's called a 'partnership' afterall
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My youngster that I lost in Feb was terrible in his stable but not from his mum, he was like it from a tiny baby. It wasn't really an issue until he came in for breaking and got bigger.
We used to do like lucyfer suggested and he wouldn't actually get his food until he backed away and he wasn't allowed to eat from his haylage net until it had been tied up and I had moved away.
I never smacked him as he would've leathered me but I was very firm with my voice and big body language. I also started out by wearing a hat and body protector.
I found the ground work with him made a huge difference too as he started to bond with me, he was never ever aggressive outside of the stable. Teaching him to move away from me with hand gestures and voice was priceless too as I could order him around the stable rather than have to touch him as this quite often annoyed him.
Gradually after keeping to routine of be nice and back off he would let me in the stable with him whilst he was eating and i could skip out around him. I would always have to keep one eye on him and he would quite often swish and show his disgust so i would stand upright and face him and make myself look big and he would submit.
It's hard and it's scary, I got pinned by him once and all I had for defence was my voice, I shouted so loud and lunged at him as if I was another horse and I think that saved me a beating.
Before I lost him I felt comfortable in the stable with him and he would move around and away just by my body language. This took almost 2 years to get to this point though.
 
Thanks for all your replies!
If i go in the stable and just stand near his head while he's eating, he'll pull faces but not do anything, its if i advance anywhere near the back of the stable and he'll kick off. So its not as though i cant actually enter the stable. Its getting out thats the hard bit!!
x
 
Then I would definately put the time in on the groundwork, teaching him to move away from your body language and commands. He will feelmore secure then too as he will be able to understand more what you are doing so wont be as worried.
JJ was like this and we were concerned that he had a problem with his eyesight but he really did improve when we learnt to communicate on his level and I am convinced his was massive insecurity that came accross as agression.
Watch how the herd interact with each other and understand their warnings and the process that they follow then apply it to your horse where possible. Tricky as we don't have th ears to flatten but you can push yyour head out and down towards him in the same way horses do when they're telling another that their behaviour isn't acceptable.
I am not saying don't smack him but with this behaviour you need to ensure you go through all of the stages another horse would to warn. Physical contact should be the last step as it is in their world.
 
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tack room where i make my feeds is at the back of my stable and i have to walk from the back to the front with feeds

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Can you prepare the feed when he is not in the stable, put it somewhere else, then you will not be trapped at the back of the stable when he is expecting feed.
WHat does he do when you go in and out of this tack room area when he is in, anything, or is it just feed?
 
If he's only like it with food, then why not just get a food manger that hangs over the stable door, that way no'one has to go in, the situation is avoided and need never arise... might sound a woosie way out, but it would avoid lots of torment for both parties.
If he's like it every time you enter the stable, then thats another thing!
 
If he's safe while you are at the front end, put a headcollar on and lead him about so he never gets a chance to 'get you'.

You are going to need some serious training time and crack this nastiness, and I think the 'reward nice faces and ears forward' behaviour is the best way. Reprimand evil faces and defensive reactions and praise/reward accepting reactions from him. You must at least be able to move freely through his box whenever you wish, although I'd probably settle for leaving him to eat in peace once he's let you in to give it him. I think a bigger box would be a start as he may be feeling claustrophbic? Not an excuse, but a reason? Or could you tie him up outside to feed him?

Sounds a bit too dangerous to be left like this and it's time for action!
 
yes i make my yearling step back when i go in with his feed then put it down then make him wait a couple of seconds then i let him eat and praise him at the same time,he is a good lad though,a friend had a youngster that was handy with its back legs so when he did it and friend was about one day they had a yard broom and just caught his legs with it as he kicked,horse never kicked again !!!
 
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