Myler Combination has dented horse's nose.....bit/noseband recommendations please.

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Hi,

As some of you may know, I have an ex-racer whom I rode in training. He pulled so hard in training that when galloped on the flat he was only ridden by the trainer himself and not by me.

He was put in a Myler Combination for the flat, not a conventional choice (unlike a dexter ring bit) for a hard puller but this was essential for the safety of the rider. I have to state that I rode him in a french link snaffle, with no nose band in road work and on the hill gallops and had no problem, he is only VERY strong on the flat. I also have to state that the trainer did not to mean to cause him harm either, he just didn't realise how strongly the Myler would work and how strongly Fred would continue to pull through it!

I have had him since April now and have retired him from racing. I bough a Myler Combination at the request of the trainer for my own safety in open spaces. I have since cantered him in a snaffle in the open with no problem, but in company he is extremely strong and on occasion I have brought the Myler back out just in case.

Obviously when ridden normally he is not held on a strong contact but when he was galloped he was so strong that pulling him up day after day has left a dent in his nose.

I DO NOT want to hurt my horse and as such no longer want to use this bit in case further damage is caused. He does not seem to be sensitive over his nose or display and characteristics when being bridled or cantered but I am not sure that he is not in pain.

For those that wish to see the dent, here are some photo's of when he came to me and more recently.

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Day 2 with me, chilling out. Dent can be seen if you look closely.

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In a french link snaffle with bot guards and flash as recommended by YO.

I have also cantered him solo in a hackamore which he responded well too, but again this would be putting pressure on his nose should he decide to disagree with my asking to pull up.

So....any recommendations for a bit in which I could school him but would also have some brakes if needed. Would a NS Universal provide the options?? Also which noseband? He whistles when worked hard and this has increased with the use of a flash so I am not keen on using one, I don't want to strap his mouth shut but this has been recommended by my YO as he sticks his tongue over the bit frequently.

Should I just throw the bit away altogether? If so, how would I get him to work correctly??

Any advice most appreciated, and please no nasty comments about the Myler....he is a very strong horse in company and until this has been schooled out of him, his and my safety is paramount and nobody realised it could do that much damage, even with a fleece covering.
 
Hi,not much help on the rest of it,sorry but just wanted to say that,IMO,if he is strong enough to have needed the Myler combo like that,then an NS Universal will no way be strong enough. The NS (or Kk sprenger) universals are not,IMO,an equivalent bit to the Myler. I have seen great success with the Cheltenham gag on strong horses-use it fairly & gently (on 2 reins if you can manage them but if not,on one will still work)and it will only make him sit up and listen(and stop!)if he ignores your aids otherwise. My horse has a chelt gag for XC and hunting-tried lots of others,to no avail. Whilstsoever he behaves,he's effectively in a lozenge snaffle (I have light hands btw!) and if the brakes fail(in his head!),I can virtually pull
him up with my fingertips-no hauling,no bracing,no rein bridging,no sore mouth,no danger to me/him/anyone around. Good luck and btw,he is extremely handsome.:)
 
Just seen you asked for a bit to school him in-I'd only use a chelt gag in a situation where I thought the brakes may fail-not in a schooling situation(not flatwork schooling at any rate-XC schooling maybe!). Hopefully someone with ex-racers can help you out re:schooling bit & noseband etc:)
 
Pressure on the nose again but don't think it would cause damage but Kineton noseband has always worked wonders on some tanks that I know.

My other thought would be a double? Then you can ride off the snaffle the majority and only pick up the curb when needed.
 
How was he with a dexter? Or did you ever try a Waterford mouthpiece? Often with racehorses that run through the bit like this the reason for the dexter is they can't grab hold of it so easily. Given that he whistles and tries to get his tongue over the bit it would also be worth trying a tongue tie to see does that keep him more settled. Finally another thing you can try but you need an enclosed space to gallop in is drop the contact. You need to be extremely careful and have excellent balance yourself and put a neck strap on. If he has nothing to pull against he may pull up a lot easier and quicker
 
I have one of mine in a myler combination for XC and have applied padding coated in vet wrap as i also found the hyde covering it was a little harsh! :)

ETS: the vet wrap allows you to have nice pretty colours on your horses head, luminous pink?? - i wonder if the trend will catch on :eek: :D :p
 
Hi all,

Thankyou for all of the replies, lot's of different options to choose from.

PapaFrita, is it clearer in these photo's? It can be clearly felt when I run my hand down his nose.

dent2.jpg


and here...

dent.jpg


It was a the Myler Combination Low Port Comfort Snaffle, Level 2 with a short shank. I didn't realise they did so many options with regards to the different mouthpieces! If the dent hadn't been caused I'd quite like it as he seems to react better in general to the independent side movement of the mouthpiece.

I've never tried a dexter on him, although I have ridden other hard pullers in one and the mare in question pulled through that too!! How does a waterford or cheltenham work in it's action? I'm not quite confident enough to use two reins, I'd rather use one rein well than two sets badly!! However everyone must start somewhere so maybe trying a double in the school (when it is finally finished) might be a good start, any recommendations for makes etc?
 
Yes, can see it better now :)
The combination you describe is the one I had it. On PF it was no good at all (no steering) but Antifaz went really well in it. Have you tried wrapping the noseband in vetwrap or sheepskin?
If he goes well in it, aside from the mark on his nose, it might be worth trying one of the other variations (or padding the noseband). You can hire one from the Bit Bank
 
Another option would be to put a sheepskin cover on it.

This the problem with leverage bits, I'm afraid - the whole point of them is to increase force so what you feel in your hand is not representative to what the horse feels!

Can you borrow a Kineton? Might be worth a try, especially with a bit you've had some success with before. Not really an option with a leverage bit, though, obviously.

Have you tried a pelham? There are so many variations but they work well for many horses, despite being rather out of fashion now.

I have to ask, is his neck okay? Another forum member (who might pop up) got a horse out of racing who had a history of being almost unworkably strong and much of it stemmed, in my opinion, from discomfort in his neck. He is vastly improved now and has done his initial xc training in a snaffle. Re-education has also been a huge part of it, as in fact I've found it to be in many cases, even for horses that returned to racing after their retraining.
 
You can pad out the nose section but remember the point of this bit is to create pressure the horse will want to move off of, obviously you don't want to hurt your horse but if your horse is strong and still pulling when the nose section is applying pressure then your horse is probably not bothered about the pressure.

We use them to train horses from the beginning and sometimes the nose section will take the hair off if the horses are being particularly strong, the thing to remember is that when the horse is being good and releases the pressure from your hands that you need to give with your hands, if you continue this method then hopefully less pressure will be needed as the horse will eventually learn that is he stops fighting he wont have pressure on his face and it will be more comfortable for him.

Hope that helps :-)
 
TarrSteps said:
I have to ask, is his neck okay? Another forum member (who might pop up) got a horse out of racing who had a history of being almost unworkably strong and much of it stemmed, in my opinion, from discomfort in his neck. He is vastly improved now and has done his initial xc training in a snaffle. Re-education has also been a huge part of it, as in fact I've found it to be in many cases, even for horses that returned to racing after their retraining.
Click to expand...

I presume that'll be mine you're meaning? :) Indy had some 'issues' when he left racing, he had become very strong and with an exceptionally high head carriage which made him difficult to ride. He'd been tried in various Mylers, gags, draw reins etc etc before he was rehomed to me. His initial issue was in his neck, I'm not sure whether or not the running came first and the resulting 'holding' caused the neck issue or he hurt the neck and then started running away from it. We had to deal with the neck issue first, mostly in ridden work, before we could deal with anything else.

We worked in a snaffle and cavesson initially and I didn't put him into a situation that might wind him up until I thought he could deal with it, and even then it was in controlled way - cantering with others in the school became going out hacking on his own and having short, steady controlled canters which we gradually upped. I took him out Xc in a snaffle and again added cantering with another horse gradually. I found a way of slowing him up by putting my right hand against the neck and using my left hand to flex his neck left, when flexed left he steadies up and I keep control. It's taken months and it's been a methodical process but I'm happy now to canter and gallop alone and with others as long as we stick with the system :) I'm even planning to take him hunting as I feel we might actually survive it!

I stuck with a snaffle throughout, I found a NS Demi-Anky worked a treat - he listens when I have to take a yank on it - and I bought him a Micklem bridle which again made a big difference. He is steadier in the contact and less likely to invert against it in the Micklem. He's also been schooled in a bitless bridle at home and when he realised he had nothing pulling him he stopped pulling, it's a lot of fun and we can jump in it too. I'd definitley recommend trying a Micklem if you can, I'm just about to buy my second one for my other ex-racer who can be strong on the flat but is just lovely in one.

The biggest improvement has been in improving his flatwork. Starting in walk and working our way up, making him softer, stretchier and more balanced. The better he got a trotting and cantering around the school, the better he got at cantering and galloping out.

Good luck!
 
Another vote here for the Rubber Pelham. I used to use this on my lad if I knew we would be doing fast work and I wore no nose band at all Eventually then only used an Eggbut snaffle for schooling and slow work.
 
I know you said that he whistles but what about a ring bit and a cross noseband? Or a nosenet? Generally with really strong pullers we would always go down the ring bit and X Noseband and if that doesn't work then try a nosenet - seemed to work with a bolter. I have to agree that his nose doesn't look too bad and if the present bit works then pad him out with sheepskin.
 
That first picture is gorgeous btw- he looks such a dude!

I'm in two minds. One part of me wants to say stick a double in and just ride off the snaffle unless you need it and the pelham might give you a bit of a 'shock brake' when you pick it up.

Other part of me wants to say go back to square one and school and school the brakes into him with a snaffle with a waterford mouthpiece.

The waterford mouthpiece is jointed the whole way across so they can't lean on it or take a hold of it.
 
Thank you all so much for your advice....lot's to think about and try, thank god for bit hire!!

I had him checked out by another a physio on monday who was recommended by my YO from her eventing days and she said the only tight spots are behind his saddle on the RHS and his 'jumpers bump'. He had 'The Back Lady' out a few months ago and she also said he was a bit unlevel behind and also that he had difficulty flexing to the left so I think persevering with the recommended stretches might help.

As for a bit, I'm not supposed to be riding yet (my physio has banned me!) but I tried him out on a hack with a friends pelham in, just the one set of reins, and although I found it easy to keep him from poking his nose (were just beginning to get this), when I did ask him to stand or slow he did resist. Hard to know what to make of that reaction, I think i'll try it when cantering and see what happens then!
 
Really if you are using a pelham 2 reins are the best option and are easy to cope with once you get used to them

This means you can preserve the braking action until he requires it and ride off the snaffle rein. If using roundings, you might as well swap to a kimblewick which looks nicer and is less to clean
 
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