Mystery lameness in loan horse

[AstonishedTrowel]

Hi all!
I'm hoping you might be able to provide some advice, opinions, experiences or just some comfort!

I have a lovely mare on full loan, she is sweet, sensible and has bags of potential. She is a 10 yo WBxID and I love her to pieces!

She had an abscess around mid-February, which drained in 2 places from her frog after soaking, poulticing and box rest. It took 2-3 weeks before it dried up so it was tough!

However, 3-4 weeks post-abscess she still isn't sound. She is slightly lame in the walk and very obviously in the trot, with a definite head nod.

Farrier says feet are all good and can't see anything else wrong. Vet has been out twice and agrees, no inflammation anywhere on her leg and no sign of an abscess anymore. Neither know what is causing it and I have just been given a 10-day course of Bute - I don't particularly like the idea, but at this stage I'll try it.
Vet doesn't think it's navicular or laminitis, tendons and bones are clean and her feet are good.

The next step if the bute doesn't help will be investigative x-rays and nerve blocking... I can't afford to do this, especially if she required further treatment so it's likely she'd have to go back to her owner which is DEVESTATING! It's literally been keeping me up at night. Her owner would most likely not take it further and instead she'd waste in a field or get put in foal just for the sake of it.

Really don't know what is wrong with her and I'm so upset about the possibility of having to say goodbye.

Any ideas what it could be? What would you do in this situation?

(The nearest place that could do nerve blocks or scans is 2 hours away and EXPENSIVE!)

Thank you for reading if you made it this far!

 

[HeyMich]

If all the owner would do would be to put her in a field, why can't you just do the same? Give her a month or two off, no further exploring at the vets for now, and see how she goes? Much cheaper, and it might just work itself out. Then, if it hasn't resolved, you can see what your options are regarding returning to the owner. Worth a try...?

 

[ycbm]

She needs x rays. There is a possibility that a foreign body caused the abscess, or that the abscess has not been resolved or possibly tracked to the bone.

I don't see what option you have but to send her back to the owner, get into huge debt yourself, , or hope the owner will pay but leave her with you.

That is the problem with loaning a horse, or keeping any horse, without insurance or enough money to pay an unexpected vet bill, sorry .

 

[Equi]

Have you actually told owner or are you just presuming what she would do?

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

Have you actually told owner or are you just presuming what she would do?

I have told the owner, she's been kept up to date of absolutely everything and to be honest, hasn't been helpful. I know that this is what she would do, she's been telling me not to bother getting the vet out and just ride her...

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

She needs x rays. There is a possibility that a foreign body caused the abscess, or that the abscess has not been resolved or possibly tracked to the bone.

I don't see what option you have but to send her back to the owner, get into huge debt yourself, , or hope the owner will pay but leave her with you.

That is the problem with loaning a horse, or keeping any horse, without insurance or enough money to pay an unexpected vet bill, sorry .

I know, I could afford an emergency vet bill and she is insured for injury (+ other stuff), but I can't justify spending that much on a horse that isn't my own.
Oh and I mentioned x-rays to the vet today (as I think that's the next logical step) but he said no, nerve blocks... Which are pretty useless in this situation IMO!

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

If all the owner would do would be to put her in a field, why can't you just do the same? Give her a month or two off, no further exploring at the vets for now, and see how she goes? Much cheaper, and it might just work itself out. Then, if it hasn't resolved, you can see what your options are regarding returning to the owner. Worth a try...?

Yeah, I think if the bute doesn't work this will be worth a shot, give myself some time to make the decision too. I just hate the thought she's in pain.

 

[Michen]

Well you have a decision to make I guess. When my loan horse coliced, his owner said it was up to me if I wanted to spend the money on operating as she wouldn't (completely fair enough). I elected for surgery and lost him anyway but was fully prepared that I was spending 7-8k on a horse I didn't own, but was about to buy.

However I was fairly sure his owner would gift him to me post surgery had he survived and she is an utterly wonderful person.

If you are really keen on this horse, might the owner gift her to you? She is essentially worthless, if lame.

 

[ycbm]

I know, I could afford an emergency vet bill and she is insured for injury (+ other stuff), but I can't justify spending that much on a horse that isn't my own.
Oh and I mentioned x-rays to the vet today (as I think that's the next logical step) but he said no, nerve blocks... Which are pretty useless in this situation IMO!

Mmm, nerve blocks three weeks after a known abscess with no return to soundness? It's a very strange suggestion, I think I might use another vet.

Why can't you claim on the insurance you have?

 

[Leo Walker]

If she is insured what is the issue?

Either way you need to get a vet to investigate or hand this horse back to the owner.

 

[Equi]

I have told the owner, she's been kept up to date of absolutely everything and to be honest, hasn't been helpful. I know that this is what she would do, she's been telling me not to bother getting the vet out and just ride her...

Reason I asked was because similar happened to me with a loan horse who was not lame but just was not right to me. I didn’t have the money for more investigations after the vets/physios etc he already had seen and owner didn’t believe he had any issues and said I was just scared to ride/too fat to ride but I knew he did. A farrier finally suggested navicular and at that point owner said don’t be silly so he went back to her. She had to retire him after finally realising it and he died not much later cause she let him get fat again after I’d spent a year getting him slim. If owner is not bothered you either need to buy and then the cost is on you for your horse or send back. If you spend loads and get it fixed (or don’t) then owner doesn’t have to but gets all the benefit of it at the end of the day.

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

Well you have a decision to make I guess. When my loan horse coliced, his owner said it was up to me if I wanted to spend the money on operating as she wouldn't (completely fair enough). I elected for surgery and lost him anyway but was fully prepared that I was spending 7-8k on a horse I didn't own, but was about to buy.

However I was fairly sure his owner would gift him to me post surgery had he survived and she is an utterly wonderful person.

If you are really keen on this horse, might the owner gift her to you? She is essentially worthless, if lame.

Oh that's heart breaking I'm so sorry!
Its a possibility, but not one that I'd bet on! Either way I'd still be a bit stuck and I'm not looking to buy just now - at that stage where moving/buying a house/marriage is on the horizon... :|

 

[teddypops]

I know, I could afford an emergency vet bill and she is insured for injury (+ other stuff), but I can't justify spending that much on a horse that isn't my own.
Oh and I mentioned x-rays to the vet today (as I think that's the next logical step) but he said no, nerve blocks... Which are pretty useless in this situation IMO!

What is the point of insuring if you’re not going to claim?

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

Mmm, nerve blocks three weeks after a known abscess with no return to soundness? It's a very strange suggestion, I think I might use another vet.

Why can't you claim on the insurance you have?

It's not for vet bills, only if the horse has an accident that incurs vet bills I believe (+rider and third party). I was surprised that he poo-pooed x-rays tbh... I live in a small town and there is only one other vet, but if it comes to it perhaps I will have him out for a second opinion...

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

If she is insured what is the issue?

Either way you need to get a vet to investigate or hand this horse back to the owner.

I have had the vet out, twice, please read the post. She is not insured for vet bills.

 

[ycbm]

What is the point of insuring if you’re not going to claim?

We don't know that she is yet. There are some insurance policies that cover only accidental injury, especially in order horses.

..

 

[ycbm]

We don't know that she is yet. There are some insurance policies that cover only accidental injury, especially in order horses.

..

See post 14, cross posted.

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

What is the point of insuring if you’re not going to claim?

It does not cover vet bills, only third party, rider and accident whilst out riding. She is not insured for vet bills.

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

Reason I asked was because similar happened to me with a loan horse who was not lame but just was not right to me. I didn’t have the money for more investigations after the vets/physios etc he already had seen and owner didn’t believe he had any issues and said I was just scared to ride/too fat to ride but I knew he did. A farrier finally suggested navicular and at that point owner said don’t be silly so he went back to her. She had to retire him after finally realising it and he died not much later cause she let him get fat again after I’d spent a year getting him slim. If owner is not bothered you either need to buy and then the cost is on you for your horse or send back. If you spend loads and get it fixed (or don’t) then owner doesn’t have to but gets all the benefit of it at the end of the day.

Ohh no, I'm so sorry. That must have been so sad and frustrating... And tbh is a similar fear for me in this situation too :/ thanks for your advice, it's a tough decision!

 

[teddypops]

It does not cover vet bills, only third party, rider and accident whilst out riding. She is not insured for vet bills.

Oh right.
Does your loan agreement not say you are responsible for vet bills while horse is in your care? Mine certainly did when I loaned a horse and when a friend loaned one of mine off me.

 

[Surbie]

She needs x rays. There is a possibility that a foreign body caused the abscess, or that the abscess has not been resolved or possibly tracked to the bone.

I don't see what option you have but to send her back to the owner, get into huge debt yourself, , or hope the owner will pay but leave her with you.

That is the problem with loaning a horse, or keeping any horse, without insurance or enough money to pay an unexpected vet bill, sorry .

I am really sorry this is what you've come up against. But having been through something very similar in 2017/18 with mine while he was an RDA horse I couldn't agree more about needing x-rays.

My now loan horse had a recurrent abcess. It kept looking as though it was healing and then would flare up again after a few weeks - he wasn't really sound inbetween. X-rays showed it was tracking horizontally in the hoof. It didn't show a foreign body but at best it couldn't drain properly so just built up over and over. It took a partial resection to get it clear and a long time on box rest/dry turnout over winter to keep the thing properly clean and allow it to grow out.

I do have full insurance for him now while he's on loan, just for peace of mind - mine and his owner's!

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

Oh right.
Does your loan agreement not say you are responsible for vet bills while horse is in your care? Mine certainly did when I loaned a horse and when a friend loaned one of mine off me.

Yes, up to £1000... tbh if I saved for a couple of months that's would be do-able but I genuinely doubt whether the owner would be willing to pay the rest, as above, she'd likely poo-poo it. The contract also states that if she is no longer fit for purpose she can be returned with notice :/ it's just tough when you fall in love with them isn't it!

 

[Michen]

Yes, up to £1000... tbh if I saved for a couple of months that's would be do-able but I genuinely doubt whether the owner would be willing to pay the rest, as above, she'd likely poo-poo it. The contract also states that if she is no longer fit for purpose she can be returned with notice :/ it's just tough when you fall in love with them isn't it!

Ummm… no. You signed an agreement saying you are responsible for bills up to that amount. Therefore you need to get the vet to x ray the horse or whatever course of treatment you see fit. If you can't afford the vet bills you AGREED to pay, you shouldn't have taken on the horse. Or you should have insured her appropriately.

Edited to add, of course if the bills exceed that then that's another matter. But it may well be that the abscess hasn't concluded and needs further digging, that there's a gas pocket, etc etc. You are responsible for this treatment, financially, until it exceeds the amount stated in the contract.

I would be furious if I sent my horse on loan with that agreement and the loanee said oh the horse will have to wait a couple of months until I have the money for the vet bills.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Perhaps get a second opinion from both a different vet and farrier until you make a decision?

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

I am really sorry this is what you've come up against. But having been through something very similar in 2017/18 with mine I couldn't agree more about needing x-rays.

My now loan horse had a recurrent abcess. It kept looking as though it was healing and then would flare up again after a few weeks. X-rays showed it was tracking horizontally in the hoof. It didn't show a foreign body but at best it couldn't drain properly so just built up over and over. It took a partial resection to get it clear and a long time on box rest/dry turnout over winter to keep the thing properly clean and allow it to grow out.

Yes, exactly! This was my first thought! Imo x-rays are a damn sight more helpful than nerve blocks too! The farrier said to get a course of antibiotics but that's a no-go. After this course of Bute it's probably worth me being a bit more forceful, I do have a doctorate to back it up...
If that was the case here I think I'd be willing to see it through, did your horse return to work ok? Were there any long-term consequences?

 

[claret09]

some years ago a horse of mine was on and off lame for a while. treated for an abscess. almost two months later he had an explosion through the top of his cornet band. there was obviously some infection that had gone through his foot. he was almost instantly sound

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

Ummm… no. You signed an agreement saying you are responsible for bills up to that amount. Therefore you need to get the vet to x ray the horse or whatever course of treatment you see fit. If you can't afford the vet bills you AGREED to pay, you shouldn't have taken on the horse. Or you should have insured her appropriately.

Edited to add, of course if the bills exceed that then that's another matter. But it may well be that the abscess hasn't concluded and needs further digging, that there's a gas pocket, etc etc. You are responsible for this treatment, financially, until it exceeds the amount stated in the contract.

I would be furious if I sent my horse on loan with that agreement and the loanee said oh the horse will have to wait a couple of months until I have the money for the vet bills.

I honestly don't think that you and her current owner are very similar. But I'll not say anymore about her as that's not helpful. If you read, I am in the process, the vet has recommended nerve blocks, poo-pooed x-rays, very keen to give bute ofc.
Before you start, I wouldn't have signed the agreement to cover up to £1000 if I wasn't good for it. End of. It is likely that x-rays will exceed that amount as I live in a small town with limited veterinary capabilities locally meaning we need to travel to specialists.
How would one dig an abscess out from the frog? Is that possible? And what is a gas pocket? (A build up of excretory material from the bacterial infection? Wouldn't that drain?)

 

[AmyMay]

I would get the foot xrayed- which actually will cost no more than about £200. Most good equine vets will have a portable machine.

If you tell us which part of the country you’re in posters may be able to recommend one.

 

[AstonishedTrowel]

Perhaps get a second opinion from both a different vet and farrier until you make a decision?

My farrier is the best in the area so I will take my hat off to him, but as I say there are only 2 vets in the area, I'd be willing to contact the other for a second opinion, although I have personally not had good experiences with him in the past.

 

[Surbie]

Yes, exactly! This was my first thought! Imo x-rays are a damn sight more helpful than nerve blocks too! The farrier said to get a course of antibiotics but that's a no-go. After this course of Bute it's probably worth me being a bit more forceful, I do have a doctorate to back it up...
If that was the case here I think I'd be willing to see it through, did your horse return to work ok? Were there any long-term consequences?

The abcesses started in June/July 2017 and the resection was at the end of October. It took a while to grow down and the special pads in his shoes had to be redone.

However he has been totally without issue on that foot since April 2018 and he's been ridden very regularly since then. The hoof wall is still a little distorted but changing back to normal with each trim. It was definitely worth doing.

I have changed his feed to include micronised linseed, a balancer and magnesium oxide and that has made a big difference to his feet too.

Happy to share more detail via PM if that would help.