Mystery mouth problem - possible TMJ???

[Cragrat]

So I posted a while ago asking about broken/abcsessed tooth roots - it turns out it's not that. In fact its not anything, seemingly, yet he still has the symptoms. He has been oroscoped by two experienced vets (rainbow) and when they showed nothing, he had a head CT scan. This also showed absolutely nothing.

One vet had found an extremely minor variation in his left TMJ on external examination, but apparently there was nothing significant in the CT scan. He stayed at the vets overnight so his quidding could be observed. The vet said the quids he produced were unusually small - I have never seen a quidding horse before, so I hadn't realised. They are like little oval pucks - smaller than a tea-bag.

When ridden he does an occasional head-fling, off to the left, chucking his head up a and down in short violent jerk 2-4 times. He then carries on normally. He does this once or twice a ride, more if we are schooling flat and he is moving forward up to the contact.

We have tried a vast range of bits - single/lozenge/mullen/straight/various metals/plastics etc He seems to like a NS lozenge the best, but he hasn't stopped head flinging, and he hasn't stopped quidding.

He's a 6 y/o ex racer. I've had him a year, and have always noticed a slight sensitivity around his left side of his head. I recently contacted the person I got him from, who said hey had noticed him not chewing and had had a dentist a couple of times, but hadn't found anything. They had had him about 18 months.

Any thoughts/observations/ideas gratefully received !

 

[texel]

From my experince with my horse (not ridden with a bit) showing the occasional head flick etc , after various tests which left me with no clear diagnosis, I eventually arranged for an equine chiropractor to examine her (with the vet's knowledge). The result was my mare presented with many areas of pain and stiffness; in particluar with the TMJ, poll and withers. I felt dreadful that I had not considered to call him in earlier and misinterpreted the symptoms for as long as I did. Needless to say after a couple of sessions there was much improvment and we are slowly working in hand and will eventually progress to ridden work - no rush.

I would suggest your horse is showing discomfort and is trying to let you know as he produces certain reactions to particular pressures when ridden. When we buy horses we have no real idea what pain relating to their past life, they are quietly eduring. Being stoic creatures they try their best not to show any physical weaknesses.

I am sure you will find the cause, if you try either a physio or chiropracter especially as the vet has provided some clues.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

This sounds like something that could be helped with acupuncture. We have a vet locally who does it (and he uses laser now rather than needles), we have had good results on a couple of horses.

 

[Cragrat]

Thank you - some food for thought. He has had some chiropractic sessions, and is booked in for another, so hopefully it might help. The vets have said he's an enigma and has them stumped - not much help really . Very frustrating, not least after spending all that money !

Not tried accupuncture - I think I need recommendations for a good, experienced equine accupunturist in the north east....

 

[JanetGeorge]

I would try a very good EDT (can get you some names if you'd like.) The vast majority of vets are useless with teeth, believe me! (I'm in the process of suing my ex-vet for failing to find a serious problem in a mare's mouth, despite being asked to FIND the bloody problem 4 times in 5 months. And THEY spent my money on steroids to the TMJ which had NOTHING to do with her problem. And I could write a book on what was missed. And we won't talk about the vet who totally missed 2 wolf teeth - admittedly in an odd place - that were causing constant tongue over bit because of pain! They dope them to the eyeballs - but still miss things any good EDT would find.

 

[D66]

Several vets and two edts failed to find my horses wolf tooth the cause of head flicking, asymmetric muscle development, and ulcers. Eventually cost £60 to have it removed - can't bear to think how much it cost over the years in various treatments, specialised tack and schooling.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thank you - some food for thought. He has had some chiropractic sessions, and is booked in for another, so hopefully it might help. The vets have said he's an enigma and has them stumped - not much help really . Very frustrating, not least after spending all that money !

Not tried accupuncture - I think I need recommendations for a good, experienced equine accupunturist in the north east....

When you say the North East, where are you?

 

[Britestar]

Instead of chiro you could try an equine osteopath. May spot poll/ neck issues

 

[Cragrat]

Thank you all for your thoughts

I did use two different, both highly experienced and well recommended EDT's. Neither found anything, which is why I then got my vet, who sedated him thoroughly, but still found nothing. He then referred him to Rainbow. 2 vets then examined him, he had a whole head CT scan, and a 3rd, an imaging specialist, was asked to examine the CT scan when the other vets couldn't find anything.

I would LOVE it to be something like a wolf tooth, but I honestly don't see how two oroscopes and a CT scan could miss them? I was there for the first oroscope, watching the screen and asking questions. He really did examine the whole mouth, all sides of each row of teeth.

Pearl- I'm near Whitby.

 

[daydreamer]

You could try looking on youtube for videos of the Masterson method TMJ release. It won't cost you anything, can't do any harm and may help a bit until you get a professional in.

 

[Cragrat]

Daydreamer - I have one of his books! I managed one of the realeases quite effectively , I think - he certainly did the lick /chew/ softening of his eye etc. I wasn't so clear on the other - the jaw movement one, but I don't know if it was my technique or that he is really stiff, both ways. So I might leave that for a professional!

 

[cundlegreen]

Thank you all for your thoughts

I did use two different, both highly experienced and well recommended EDT's. Neither found anything, which is why I then got my vet, who sedated him thoroughly, but still found nothing. He then referred him to Rainbow. 2 vets then examined him, he had a whole head CT scan, and a 3rd, an imaging specialist, was asked to examine the CT scan when the other vets couldn't find anything.

I would LOVE it to be something like a wolf tooth, but I honestly don't see how two oroscopes and a CT scan could miss them? I was there for the first oroscope, watching the screen and asking questions. He really did examine the whole mouth, all sides of each row of teeth.

Pearl- I'm near Whitby.

Just to rule things out, can you get some sort of soft padding under the headpiece and down the sides of the tmj? I have a mare who is very unsteady in the head, and found a particular make of bridle with a huge amount of padding. Her way of going was so much better, and we've since discovered that she has a bony lump pressing into the nucheal ligament just behind the poll, so the headpiece made sense.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Pearl- I'm near Whitby.

My vet trained, as an acupuncturist, in York, so I would imagine there is someone nearer to you that the East Lancs/W. Yorks border which is where we are.