Naming and shaming

Thatnks for posting that. It's very interesting to see who's been told off and for what. I'm highly unlikely to ever be on that list because it's highly unlikely I'll ever compete at a FEI event!
 
you have to bear in mind that often these 'crimes' are in the opinion of the steward/official and often the only evidence is one word against another.
One extremely famous rider on that list was apperntly riding a horse i know extremely well, owned by a friend and he is still riding it now. He wouldnt be if he had abused her darling in front of her (and she was present) so not really sure what that one is refering too.
The inapropriate behaviour one refers often to giving an official a mouthful.
 
I like the 'incorrect behaviour - dismounting in front of a XC obstacle'. I've been tempted many, many times
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and also performed this a time or two (albeit involuntarily
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).

I'm think I'm currently on the BE equivalent list for my inability to count
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. Horse ran past the second last fence at an event; I circled, jumped it and continued over the last fence and finished. Unfortunately it had had two run-outs previously on the course so I shouldn't have carried on. Sadly Gamebird forgot to keep a count on her fingers and had to have a wee word with the steward shortly after finishing
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. They were very nice and excused me, though I believe it's still written down somewhere
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.

I shall be practising counting to 3 before embarking on further FEI adventures!
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"you have to bear in mind that often these 'crimes' are in the opinion of the steward/official and often the only evidence is one word against another" - Actually it takes a considerable amount to get on the list. You couldn't just have one official decide that a rider used their whip too many times or that a horse was not fit for the competition. There is a system, and the bottom line is, if you're on that list - shame on you.

My question is, why only for FEI?. We've all cringed at seeing tired horses fall through the finish. Or like the ill tempered brat I saw at Lincoln leather her pony as she came out of the sj, and proceed to beast it over the practice fence repeatedly. It doesn't look good for the sport, it's not fair on the horses and all too often in BE, people mutter and frown but nothing gets said. It sort of comes back to the Pony trial thread. AB should have learned what's acceptable and what's not during her time on ponies, perhaps then she wouldn't be on the FEI list in March 2008?
 
Am i not right in saying that she was then put on the pony team after the incident which got her on the list!!
In my eyes if the incident was bad enough to be put on the list then she should not have been put on a team riding the same pony!!
 
i am probably more aware than you of the proceedure teddy, unless you are actually an official, but if you were you would be aware that BE also has a disciplinary list, which also used to be published in the omibus. (I have no idea why they stopped doing this btw.).
I believe BE also have several other lists, e.g. for those who have been seen to ride dangerously, meaning that there is some scrutiny even at national level but as i said originally most of these offences are entirely dependent on the words of one against another. There is a proceedure but unless there is video evidence, how else do you think these things are brought to the attention of the FEI steward.
here is an example of what i mean. in a CIC** in England last year a steward made what i will call a rather unfortunately timed comment about a very minor transgression to a rider who at the time I am going to say hand their hands full. It was not the time for a discussion over a tiny point of law that did not pertain to that horse and the rider said so rather bluntly but no swearing involved. To all of our astonishment shortly afterwards the FEI steward appeared saying a complaint had been made and the rider could expect a disciplinary and what was their side of the story. he explained as he had not been there himself, if there was no other evidence/witnesses he was duty bound to back the officials (obviously) but as he knew the rider quite well he said off the record perhaps the rider could go find said official and 'make peace' before the official report was filed. As it happens i could have backed the rider if it hd come to that but often in the case of inappropriate behaviour' there isnt really another person concerned.
In the case of 'tired horses' at a three day, that will have been witnessed by the vet team in the finish area, who are required to monitor the horses pulse etc upon finishing and how it recovers. some horses look tired but recover their TPR to within normal parameters very quickly in which case there is no case, the horse is just not so forward thinking or whatever, but if one looks tired and is does not recover within set times then it was either not fit enough or carrying some other health issue and the rider can then concievbly be disciplined for 'finishing on a tired horse' because the scientific evidence from a vet team will back up the steward or ground jury member who made the complaint.
I think it is good that there is an obvious disciplinary deterent to bad behaviour but dont be fooled because there is proceedure. There is one rider on that list who got done for something most riders would have considered reasonable behaviour on an unruly horse (tactful description
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) who got away with another potentially much more serious because the 'proceedure' was not followed as it perhaps should have been,
 
"you have to bear in mind that often these 'crimes' are in the opinion of the steward/official and often the only evidence is one word against another."
Have to say I kind of agree with this. Whilst obviously the FEI and BE need to make sure horse welfare is the top priority, some of these, especially those for "dangerous riding" are very subjective...the incident log run by BE, for example, takes fence judge reports as evidence and while some of these people are very knowledgeable...some are not - know someone last year who was done for speeding in my opinion unfairly. So lets not be quick to judge people for things we don't really know about - I think its probably easier than you might think to fall the wrong side of these rules (eg Gamebird's counting!).
 
precisely. i know another who was disqulified from a major 3DE when the frangible pin broke (first year it was implemented that meant auto disqulaification under FEI rules) despite the fact that the horse was almost last to go, hit the fence so lightly it was not impeded AT ALL, and the fence, scene of several falls that day had not had the pin checked. The fence judges were adamant the horse had stood off, belly flopped the horse and would had certainly fallen if the pin hadnt gone. the video was lost apparently (or no camera on that fence) but the fence judges were completely backed despite the horse finishing (with one stop after being held) and not having a single mark on it (white grey horse) despite having allegedly hit this fnce bodily with enough force to touch dislodge the pin. Even the FEI vet (who eventually was persuaded to look at said horse as we tried to appeal this disqualification) said there was NO EVIDENCE of am inpact with anything, the horse was fit, well and sound, not a a mark on him, but it did eventually boil down to the riders words v the fence judges and the rider lost.
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Interesting reading. I knew about the one regarding 'excessive use of the spurs'. This was a horse that was simply rubbed by the spurs, it hadnt drawn blood or anything. It just had a slightly sore patch on one side from the spurs.
So, watch out if you have a thin skinned horse at FEI events...........
 
perhaps the same horse that was disqualified at a thrree day in the dressage for this despite the fact the rider demonstrated the mark was nowhere near his leg and had been caused by the hard edge of a dressage square under the saddle when the horse excessively sweated in 80' heat when excercising the previous day......
 
That was a shock I know several people on it.
I am pretty unimpressed with OT riding tired horses, his comment of the horse will be better for a run like that angered me at the time, the damn horse should be fit before the event, not made fit by going round it on the day. I know what he means but that fine edge to fitness is not achieved by pushing a very tired horse, it's obtained by them reaching peak fitness as they do more.
I felt perhaps the losing control of the horse penalty sounded rather unfair, what do you do under those circumstances, I would imagine you're already doing your utmost to to regain control anyway!
We've probably been lucky to never get one, in the days when Jack used to ditch C before her dressage she most certainly jumped up and smacked him several times with her whip, getting decanted before you get from the lorry park to the collecting ring isn't funny. I'm hoping he's outgrown that trick now.
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I'm not sure how much the system will actually achieve, the people who push tired horses obviously aren't that bothered by anyone else's opinion of them anyway, and this is supposed to be trial by shame isn't it?
 
It's a shame that a few of the well respected Irish riders are on the list!
I'm a bit shocked that so many "big" names are on there too!
Makes interesting reading anyway.
 
Henryhorn does make a point - the sort of people who behave inappropriately in public (vs a one off mistake or regrettable loss of control) are not that concerned with what other people think, or they wouldn't behave that way in the first place. That said, having your name on a list for all to see IS a pretty damning indictment.

There is an appeals process in place and hopefully riders can present their cases if accused, but as with all such processes, you can't always keep personal feelings and bias out of the mix. I was involved in an incident years ago when a rider was accused of rapping at an event (when PS had been videoed and rapping was big news) . . . by the competitor who stood to win if said rider was eliminated. Unfortunately the accusing rider was also a Team member, a well known coach and generally well connected. The accusation came because someone - a coach with bad history with the accusing rider - was touching the pole of the warm up fence when the rider was jumping. After MAJOR drama, both at the event and subsequently about whether or not the accused rider should be eliminated (yes, after two reversals) and then deserved a yellow card, it was decided to issue a verbal warning, I suspect because to NOT do so at that point would have been to loose face. So did the rider abuse the horse? No, not at any point. But a rule was broken and reasonably enough, I guess, someone had to pay. Now I've seen people do worse and get away with it but it doesn't change being caught on the day.

So yes, there are always stories to tell. Not everyone who gets "caught" is intentionally breaking the rules. Some people get caught because it's a one off but still a reasonable accusation. Some people get caught because everyone "knows" there's a problem and they're being watched accordingly. No way to tell from the list. But by the same token, NOT getting caught doesn't necessarily make someone innocent.
 
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