Napping - A UK problem?

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burtie

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A couple of posts about this being a UK issue made me decide to start my own! I'm interested in your definition of Napping as I'm quite honestly surprised that non Uk horses don't nap at all! I've ridden many horses many from Europe and 1 from Canada who is reining trained and they have all napped to some degree. But then I consider any horse that walks a bit faster on the way home or show a mild interest in talking the shortest route home a bit of napping and find it very hard to believe that foreign horses don't know their way home!
 
I've ridden a few horses who used to nap in the UK. I've ridden literally tons of horses but never ever ridden a horse either on the continent or over here in North America who naps. Of course they all know their way home but they do what they are asked and do not nap if told to go a different way. Napping is going backwards when asked to go wherever, all European horse and NA horses I've ridden have been forward going.
 
I am also interested by this question. Is there some fundamental difference in training that effectively prohibits napping? If so, what is it?
 
FubsyMog said:
I am also interested by this question. Is there some fundamental difference in training that effectively prohibits napping? If so, what is it?
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I don't know; I'd guess that riders in Europe and the Americas are more no-nonsense with their horses though and DO expect them to do what they are asked. I suspect there are some horses on either continent who nap, I've just never ridden them nor seen any horse do it here or in Europe, only in the UK.
 
I guess that explains it then, to me any horse that shows even a small preference to one direction over another is showing a mild symptoms of napping. It's in their nature to want to go home and has to be taken into account when training. I was taught 'fast out, steady home' when taking horses out, to prevent any more serious symptoms developing. I've only come across a small number of horses that actually refuse to go forward or run back (or worse), but this is still just a more extreme reaction to showing a preference and is almost always developed over time by lack of rider confidence.
 
I am a bit confused by your idea of napping OP. I understand that a horse is only napping when it refuses to move froward, nothing to with knowing its way home? Or am I missing your point?
 
Well my horses all know the way home and if I decide to ride on a trail away from home direction they may well look in that direction but they don't miss a beat on going where I ask them to go.
 
I read a LOT on a US forum about 'ring sour' horses, horses that run towards the gate or won't leave the gate, and 'herd bound' horses, who are clingy and hard to convince to leave other horses. So I don't think it is a UK problem, but definitely a UK word!

I think nappiness is just not really wanting to do work, and that includes leaving the yard/other horses. I don't let my horse nap, but I know he would given half a chance, his favourite thing is sleeping, lazy beggar!
 
It is a UK word that's for sure! lol! No one over here that I know would know what the word meant or why it would happen :)

Ring sour is usually something different. And I do hear of that a fair amount; I've owned some ring-sour horses, not an issue for me as I simply don't take those ones in the arena.
 
Mumbles said:
I am a bit confused by your idea of napping OP. I understand that a horse is only napping when it refuses to move froward, nothing to with knowing its way home? Or am I missing your point?
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I guess it comes down to understanding how severe napping behaviour develops, it doesn't just happen and tends to come on from bad, ineffectual or incorrect training. Some cases can occur after a single bad incident but this is rarer. When does walking a bit faster home, become a jog. When does a horse walking slower away from home become a refusal to walk and so on. These things develop over time. I've not yet ridden a horse that doesn't have a little more purpose in each pace on the way home (not talking about disobedience in any way), so I am surprised that foreign horses don't do this at all.
 
Two of my horses (inclu. my old lad) used to nap, but in different ways. Pinto *always* knew were home was, and always wanted to go in that direction, which meant that we had discussions at every crossroads. He once very nearly unseated me when we were going at a spanking trot down one track when he suddenly made a 90degree turn up a little used track through the woods that I wasn't expecting. I didn't even know the track was there... Crafty old burger he was. Lots of positive and assertive riding was needed when approaching cross roads, but we always went in the direction *I* wanted to go in ;)

Tartine will nap to the gate in the school, not hard, and it's sometimes quite subtle, like she'll lean more heavily on the outside rein as we approach the gate. She'll also nap towards other horses if I'm sharing the school (and as it's 60x40, it's quite often!) You just need to be aware of it, and assertive riding overcomes it. Out hacking she isn't noticable different coming back than going out.

Edited to specify, both my nappers were French bred, raised and trained.
 
I'm confused by the idea of napping as well. My definition is a horse that refuses to move away from, or tries to return to somewhere, usually by planting their feet, walking backwards/sideways, spinning etc. In my experience it can occur in many places, in the school towards the gate for example - I'm not sure if I'd consider just drifting towards the gate in the school true napping though? I doubt I'd even notice if they walked a bit faster home, and I wouldn't consider a faster walk home to be napping.

I'm from Aus, I used to have a really nappy mare, so I don't think its a UK thing. She was just really lazy, and napping back to the line up of other horses at shows was her favourite party trick, but other than that she was really well schooled and she didn't do it all the time, rarely in fact.

Maybe that's the Australian definition though!
 
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Nap, napping, nappiness - I've always understood it to be when a horse seems to want to take you in usually the opposite direction you've asked it to go in - usually back towards home. A lot of young horses will try it on at one stage or another in their training, to one degree or another. It really is in the hands of the trainer/ rider as to how far it develops. It can be a mild irritation that is quickly worked through and solved, or, it can develop in to a full blown tantrum........the answer usually lies in the riders hands.

I don't think this problem is exclusive to UK horses only - I think horses are horses wherever they are - It's all in the hands of the human in charge of them that matters.
 
I have always understood that "barn sour" is the term used in the USA, when a horse doesn't want to leave its friends and go out on the trail.

In other words - napping. I understand that a nappy horse is reluctant to leave the stable and yard to go for a ride (and yes I suppose that includes rushing back to the gate if schooling in the arena), or that goes so far on a ride and then refuses to go further, and the worst sort want to whip round and bolt back, or start going backwards or rearing on being asked to go forwards.

Some horses start to jog and pull if heading for home, but that is a matter of manners. If it included wanting to go faster on the way back from a ride, I guess it would include most horses in the UK. Napping is refusing to move forward when required.
 
I'm sure horses in Europe and America do go faster on the way home. But when asked they wouldn't say their horse napped, as that is not napping??

As above, to me napping is the refusal to go forwards when asked, or worse backing up and rearing. Or napping towards the gate in the school ie. not going where it is asked.

I'm sure horses do these things in other countries, it's just given a different name.
 
I would probably define napping as the refusal to go in the direction I ask. I had one that would not always nap towards home, he would show a inclination to go a certain way, sometime even a route we had never taken. He would hesitate, plant and walk quietly backwards if pushed.

He was an ex racer so probably wasn't used to going out on his own. When I got him had just come over from France and hadn't been in the UK long enough to develop the habit here. The person I got him from was a professional so certainly it wasn't due to a novice let him get his own way.

He soon got used to going out on his own and would happily go forwards ears pricked where asked. He still sometimes showed an inclination to go a certain way but no more than a start towards a turning and easily corrected.
 
Napping, or baulking, or barn sour, or whatever term is used to describe a horse refusing to answer the forward aids, is I am sure not unique to the UK. It is however very, very prevalent there; more so than in other places in my experience of working with horses on 4 continents. The reason for this is not mysterious and lies (IMO) in the teaching and training methods deployed in the UK.
 
like Casey i live in France and i've seen an enormous amount of nappy horses, in fact so many here nap that when you look for horses for sale you have to specifically ask if they can be ridden ' seul ' ( alone) and many sellers try to avoid the subject altogether. they say things like 'needs a confident rider ', 'will show a bit of white if worried ' pahh , it all means the same thing, they nap.!
 
I'd consider it as napping the second the horse drops behind the leg. If it's picked up on at that point and dealt with the more serious evasions are a lot less likely to occur.
 
Gloi said:
I'd consider it as napping the second the horse drops behind the leg. If it's picked up on at that point and dealt with the more serious evasions are a lot less likely to occur.
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This!! You said in one sentence what I wasn't explaining well in 3 or 4 paragraphs!
 
Napping generally occurs when you have a novice/or ineffective rider riding the horse and the horse has some security issues.

Napping horses are generally either young and inexperienced, poorly schooled or cunning.

Most of the time if you put an experienced rider on board the horse will stop misbehaving.

Horses in NZ nap too!
 
Half my ponies are entire. It is a matter of safety that they go forward on command, NO MATTER WHAT, and for any rider. The last thing you want is an entire thinking he can stop and chat to an interesting new horse and ignore you. I think knowing that it matters more makes the rider more positive. They get a quick reminder with the schooling whip the moment they disregard the leg when ridden out as youngsters, and quickly learn not to nap.
 
Probably so prevalent in this country due to our horses status as 'pets' & small issues not getting nipped in the bud before they escalate. I also think a lot of napping originates with not enough ground training done prior to riding (long reining) when initially broken. Lot's of apparently experienced horse owners undertake to start a horse, and either just try to ride it with no prep whatsoever, or with vague work on the lunge with no real idea what they need to be achieving. This explains the vast majority of ridden issues in my opinion.
 
Napping to me is a horse that won't go forward when asked e.g. planting when being asked to leave the yard - if asked more forcefully this could result in spinning, rearing, bucking….basically the horse trying to get its own way by behaving badly.

Very interesting to hear that less horses on the continent do it….I always assumed it was a worlwide horse behaviour!
 
L&M said:
Napping to me is a horse that won't go forward when asked e.g. planting when being asked to leave the yard - if asked more forcefully this could result in spinning, rearing, bucking….basically the horse trying to get its own way by behaving badly.

Very interesting to hear that less horses on the continent do it….I always assumed it was a worlwide horse behaviour!
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I've trained and ridden all over the world for going on 40 years, and the only place where I have found napping to be a common problem was in the UK. Most places I have trained horses it is unheard of, the only times I've come across it is where there are lots of amateur, weak or uneducated riders. I think where there are very soft, ineffectual riders who perhaps don't have access to pro trainers/instructors napping and disobedient horses are the result.
 
Not sure about the horses on the continent. I know a few people who had warmbloods recently imported who were problematic to hack from the start because it hadn't been part of their experience. Whether it becomes a bigger problem or is quickly dealt depends on the new owner.
 
criso said:
Not sure about the horses on the continent. I know a few people who had warmbloods recently imported who were problematic to hack from the start because it hadn't been part of their experience. Whether it becomes a bigger problem or is quickly dealt depends on the new owner.
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Precisely.
 
We have two Andalusian mares who were imported from Spain about a month before we got them, and hadn't really been ridden when in the UK, both nap occasionally. I don't think it's only a problem in the UK.
 
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