Napping at competitions- scared not just naughty?

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Cash

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I have had some difficulties with the TB when we are at parties. He naps out hacking anyway, but he has also done it before when leaving the collecting ring for the XC start/SJ arena. Normally I can push him through it (like I would out hacking) using my voice and being determined with my seat and legs, as sometimes he's only looked back and maybe hesistated a bit, or planted for a second or two. And luckily he is fairly intelligent, and so knows when he's about to go do something fun, so doesn't put up much of a fight..
This weekend coming I have indoor showjumping...we've been to the arena together before for an evening clinicy thing, and we were a bit late (what's new
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) so I had to head through the smaller school (used as a collecting ring) into the main arena alone. Even though we were alone in the collecting ring (ie no horses to nap back to) and he could hear and see the horses in the main arena (so theoretically he should have WANTED to go in
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) he still napped very badly, running backwards into the mpty collecting ring, rearing etc for about 3 minutes before I could get him in.
It was a bit different to when he usually naps, as normally I know he is just being obstinant and trying it on, as there seemed to be an element of fear (was spooking at the big double doors into the arena which were creaking a bit in the wind) so i couldn't really use the 'tough love' approach I would normally when he's being a g1t- tapping with whip, growling, pushing him on etc
I am very worried this will happen on Sunday- he will have even more reason to nap as the collecting ring will be full of horses. What can I do to push him through the napping, without scaring him more?
Sorry. Long.
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Use horse physcology and if he insists on not going forward but running backwards turn his back towards where you want to go, put your legs on and let him run backwards. Then once inside the ring turn him round and give him a good kick (careful not to catch him in the mouth) and give him a big pat. This worked a treat with my horse that refused to go into the stream at the local riding club. After 20 mins of running backwards away from the water I turned his bum to it and he ran straight in, albeit backwards. After that he was fine with water and we could trot, canter and jump into and out of water without a care. This 'reverse pychology' also worked on my friends horse who would plant his feet and refuse to go forwards on the way to the field for turnout, one day I ended up walking him half the length of a field backwards before he decided walking backwards was too much like hard work and he'd rather walk forwards instead. This philosophy has also helped me get past 'scary monsters' when out hacking on my own, when my horse has refused point blank to go past something - its a weird phenonomen but they don't seem to realise they are walking past the scary thing when they walk backwards!!
 
can you get someone to lead him in for you?

my 5yro does this sometimes going into the sj ring or into the xc start box but if someone puts their hand on her bridle she is fine.

i think some horses gets nerves the same way some people do, so if you can get him to do what you want with minimal fuss it will help.
getting him stressed and razzed up will likely just make him worse.
 
Is this Lordsbridge? I've been in the evenings there and it's a bit dark and creepy for them - ours always have a bit of a goggle as they go in, particularly as there are stabled horses out back. If you're going in the day, you should be alright. Just be firm and go into the class with the other horse still in the ring after they finish so he goes in towards the other one.
 
Just get someone to put a hand on him and lead him those few steps in the arena. The minute you get in and feel him take the handbrake off, send him positively forward and let him feel your own confidence.

If you make a huge deal of it (and don't win) it will just get worse, especially if you think he is genuinely nervous. By doing it this way (if he is nervous rather than being a brat) he will see that there is nothing to fuss about and it *should* stop being an issue.
 
That sounds more like nerves than naughtiness. We had a hunter that had developed a knee jerk reaction to anything he wasn't sure about doing, which involved napping and turning himself inside out if you tried to force him. Can you feel his heart pounding when he does it? I would either, as others have suggested, get someone to lead you or walk ahead of you and see if he'll follow, or as I used to do, just let him stand, talk to him, scratch his neck etc until he's calmed down, then use your voice and v quiet leg aids to ask him to walk on. Big pats if he does; if not, stop and do the same again. I think if you're too strong when they're nervous some horses will just tell you where to go, so it's better to avoid the battle if at all possible - unless you like eating dirt.
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Max, the hunter, got over it and became the confident horse that would give others a lead in spooky/scary situations.
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I would definitely get someone calm to put a hand on him at the gate but if you find that isn't enough, don't let it get into someone grabbing/pulling him.

I had one to ride that was terrified of going into the ring (he had good reason - he had the misfortune to win a 4yr old jumper class when he didn't really know what he was doing then everyone lost their heads pushing him), to the point where he would flip over (not rear, literally throw himself over backwards) in the in gate. They'd tried to drag him in, which then made it so if anyone even tried to put a hand on him he'd panic trying to get away. He would literally shake then if there was any movement or noise, he lost it completely. One person did tell me to hit him in once and against my better judgement, I did it. It was not pretty and it certainly didn't solve the problem.

We fixed it by taking him to a multi day dressage show where he could go in the ring twice every day and there weren't jumps waiting for him, and it was organised enough that I had time and space. I prepared him by filling a box with mints, getting him to associate the noise of the box shaking with getting a mint. Then he had to take a few steps towards the box to get a mint and so on. At the show we started out for the in gate with time to spare, every time he stopped we'd give him a minute to settle, then my assistant would shake the box and we'd take a few more steps, until he started to get tense again. The first class took us about 20 minutes to get there.:) Once I was in the ring (on a very tense horse) I just swallowed my pride and gave him an easy time. By the third class he walked in with only a shake and a mint at the in gate.

I did nearly get dumped though, when I was warming up for the third class and my helper, standing at ringside, took the box out of her pocket. The horse was cantering by at the time and turned around to face her so fast I was left sitting on air.
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The next time out we went to a jumper show with lots of small classes and repeated the procedure. Again, I told the management what I was up to and in the first class I think I jumped about three jumps then pulled up.

He did get much, much better and went on to jump competitively at 1.20m+ but he really should have been top class, except for coming off the rails so early. A real waste.

Any way, a whole lot further along than your horse but I think the principle is the same. Instead of the in gate being a stressful place to be avoided, try to make it a "safe" place where he won't be rushed or pushed unduly.

Of course, this all implies that he does go forward off the leg every other time you ask and the in gate problem is not just the most extreme manifestation of a larger issue. Even if nerves are an issue it will help to cement his acceptance of the leg until it's automatic that he goes forward, no matter what. That way he can take confidence in the routine of you aids and know you won't resort to "special" measure in that particular situation where he is already feeling stressed.
 
Thankyou everyone for replies.
I think getting someone to just lead him in might be the answer..I definitely don't want to make it a big deal, so he knows it's something he can make a fuss about it if that makes sense?
Kit279 yes it is at Lordsbridge, but during the day.
Baydale- well basically, it starts off with him spooking and thinking 'no definitely don't like that' (he never gets REALLY upset ie heart pounding) but then seems to turn quickly from actual fear to him just being stubborn and bratty, and doing the rearing and reversing etc..but I can't really tell when it switches from fear to obstinance, so don't know how to react. I certainly don't want to get him upset and worried when he is genuinely scared, but at the same time he is the kind of horse who needs to be handled firmly if he's just playing up, or he takes the p*ss even more- as I have found through trial and error
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So ideally I'd like to be able to reassure him when he's scared, and then push him on, without having to go through the g1t stage- but it seems to 'switch' so subtly and quickly that I don't really know how to react
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If he was JUST p1ssing around, or JUST scared, I'd know how to deal with it...argh
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I think it's also because he belongs to and has been brought on by a professional eventer (with legs about a foot longer than mine, and obviously LOADS more ability, experience and skill than me!) so he tries it on with me because he knows he can.
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It could be a bit of both then, but perhaps he's learnt to cope with nerves by being bratty, almost goading you with "go on, make me", knowing full well that he's going to win if you do take him on. However, I do think you should be able to go to neutral ground where you can both take a deep breath before you ask the question again.

It's impossible to advise without seeing him and you in that situation, so why not speak to his previous rider and see what he/she thinks?
 
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It could be a bit of both then, but perhaps he's learnt to cope with nerves by being bratty, almost goading you with "go on, make me", knowing full well that he's going to win if you do take him on.

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the 'go on, make me' bit is EXACTLY right- however I've never let him win (i may lack finesse, talent and style but I am fairly persistent!
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) even though it's often taken a very long time, but he sure puts up a good fight every time in the hope that I might give in! Just annoying really, as he loves to jump, and once he gets in the ring he's so enthusiastic you'd never guess he'd put up a fight going in..!


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It's impossible to advise without seeing him and you in that situation, so why not speak to his previous rider and see what he/she thinks?

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It's his current owner actually- he's just my long term 'in between' horse on loan from said friend while I'm looking for new livery and then new horse.
I think I will see how this weekend goes, and have a word with her if I haven't made any progress. He doesn't do it every time (eg last competition, a hunter trial, napped badly for the first 3 jumps. One before that, an ODE, went in perfectly for all 3 phases). Might get someone to video him going in actually, then if he does make a scene I can look back at it later and think about what i could/should have done better (and maybe put it on here if I'm brave enough
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)
 
Yes see that's what's weird, when he gets in the ring he loves his job, and is really enthusiastic (near unstoppable sometimes
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) so it is purely pig headedness, but started by initial fear
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Mine can be a complete angel some days, the next time out he can be the napping monster from hell (fortunatly he doesnt buck or rear!)
 
ours is an angel in the ring, but to get him in we have to canter from the collecting ring if its indoors and the surface allows if not then a very strong trot other wise he would just stand and wave at everyone! he wont hack on his own either, for something that is as brave as a lion in the ring every were else he is a cowardy custard!
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