Napping - how best to deal with it?

[Girlracer]

Please, someone come up with a miracle cure to stop my pony being a pain in the bum.

He has got some real issues developed in the past 2 months. It started with just planting himself out hacking, having a short battle and it being forgotten about. It escalated to a long battle, him rearing, spinning and doing everything he could not to go the way i wanted. Usually something would trigger it like a leaf in a field... that sort of pathetic excuse.

I moved to Oxford and first few weeks were the same, planting, spinning but manageable. Now however, well.... hacking is just plain dangerous, he spooks, spins and rears at EVERYTHING i can't do anymore than a walk (usually a very tense one) for fear of him planting and ditching me then galloping off wherever he fancies. I can't take him in the school without draw reins (i've NEVER used draw reins on him before, it's purely a safety thing) he's ditched me in there twice in 2 weeks by deciding he's scared of something that isn't there plunging forward, dropping his shoulder and bu**ering off in the opposite direction. Even in draw reins he tries it but i can over power him quick enough that he can't go through with it. Funnily enough it always happens away from the gate. Last time he caused this...

He's never been an easy horse, but he's always been manageable and enjoyable, a pleasure to be around and i looked forward to riding him. Now i don't want to get back on board because even if i do stay on it's totally un-enjoyable. I just don't have a clue what to do, i've never let him get away with it yet it gets worse, is he just at that age where he's testing the limits or what? He's fed 1/2 scoop Total Control Mix, 1 scoop mollichaff and is also on globalherbs supercalm. Nothing has changed before he started it, obviously we moved but a move has never effected him before and he started before we moved anyway.

Help me, i want my lovely little horse back. It wouldn't be so bad if he was a competition horse but he's my pet, i'm meant to enjoy him he's not all that nice on the ground either now... what's gone wrong?

He is up to date with teeth etc, although is due to have his teeth done next month, which is booked for the 3rd. Perhaps i can have his back checked again, and his saddle hasn't changed the whole time.

 

[abitodd]

It does sound like he is trying to tell you something,so I think it would be worth a physio session and getting the saddle checked.
I have had serious issues with napping and my trouble was I turned into a 'victim'.I would just hang on,terror struck, and my mind would go blank!

I took my boy for walks in hand,did loads of work on the ground and as my confidence in him came back I started getting on again. Sometimes,just getting on,sitting there,flexing him a bit,then much praise and get off. My 1st hacks after the napping were sometimes only a few yards.
My confidence in him grew,and his confidence in me grew.
Now when he naps(a rather pathetic attempt compared to what he used to do) I no longer become the victim. I move his shoulders,do circles,reinback, whatever I can to feep his feet moving and he soon works out its easier to do as asked and go forwards.
Good luck, its a bu**er when you stop enjoying your horse.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Sorry to hear about this, can you give us more detail on his age, type and work and if he is stabled or out, any changes there?
When the teeth are done, ask the Technician to comment on anything unusual. Run your hands all over his body, looking at his reactions, and feeling for anything unusual.
Are you near Sarah Fisher, the behaviourist, she might be able to help.
Soak all forage to remove sugars, and no molasses or hard feed.
Go back to ground work in hand using a control halter, I had to use a bridle for a while, but my boy is better now.
I know it is difficult, but keep calm, do not react to his nonsense in a fighting way.
Look at endospink hybrid horsemanship on you tube, he just keeps working away and wears them down!

 

[Girlracer]

I'm pretty positive it's not pain related, in the time that it's started i've taken him to an eventing clinic, where he was super behaved. We've been showing and came 1st and 3rd, and to the gallops (which is pretty much hacking isn't it!) and he was foot perfect everytime, if i take him out on the lorry he behaves himself. If i take him from home he's a nightmare. He's always done it to an extent (couldn't hack to the local showground as he mis behaved napping home) but this is extreme now.

MrsD he is 6, he raced as a 2yo before being turned away. I then got him from the field as a 5yo and re-backed him. He's in medium work, i work him probably 5 of 7 days although will sometimes have a few days off if work is busy (never been a problem for the past year!). He is out for a good 5-7 hours a day and in a VERY big pen at night (again not been a problem for the past year!). He's on ad-lib hay (again not a problem for a year!), i can't really remove hard feed because well... he's a thoroughbred! And again it's not been a problem for a year.

And as far as ground work goes...

I never react to him, i learnt it from day one he almost enjoys the battle. Where do i go next? Just go to a show every day of the week?

 

[Miss L Toe]

Personally, I would change his routine until the teeth are done: long reining and grid-work from the ground, I use Feedmark Steady up, but did find Magic to be very effective, just more expensive.
When he prepares to rear, you might be able to stop him by lifting the inside rein up above wither height, any turning in circles should be done in a firm but not angry way, he will pickup on your instincts, and this will not help him, so breath steadily and do not get in a panic.
Sometimes he may just plant himself, you need to move those front legs, do this by tapping with a light schooling whip on his outside shoulder, while pushing firmly with the outside leg and the inside rein shirt and above wither height
It may be that you need outside assistance, just the fact that someone is instructing and is on the ground, can help his behaviour. It needs to be an experienced , confident and capable person.

 

[Girlracer]

Personally, I would change his routine until the teeth are done: long reining and grid-work from the ground, I use Feedmark Steady up, but did find Magic to be very effective, just more expensive.
When he prepares to rear, you might be able to stop him by lifting the inside rein up above wither height, any turning in circles should be done in a firm but not angry way, he will pickup on your instincts, and this will not help him, so breath steadily and do not get in a panic.
Sometimes he may just plant himself, you need to move those front legs, do this by tapping with a light schooling whip on his outside shoulder, while pushing firmly with the outside leg and the inside rein shirt and above wither height
It may be that you need outside assistance, just the fact that someone is instructing and is on the ground, can help his behaviour. It needs to be an experienced , confident and capable person.

Thank you for the reply, i'll start by saying it won't me that straight forward with him. He's very intelligent and has a very complicated mind. He enjoys a battle so i have learnt from day one not to start one, i sit very quietly throughout any 'episode' and never trigger an argument with him. I can't carry a whip unless it's a VERY short jumping crop, may be do able with someone on the ground, but i suspect a whip however lightly used will encourage a very negative effect from him.

The rearing is not my concern so much, although of course i discourage it, it doesn't bother me as much as the shoulder dropping. He's learnt it works and so that's now what he does he knows EXACTLY what he's doing. But without the aid of draw reins he is to sharp to stop, maybe a better rider would stay put but i really don't see how you could. I can't explain very well what he does but it's awfully effective.

Honestly whilst i'm on board i do not react to him, it makes no difference. I've tried nice, firm, ignoring him all together and it has no effect. Yet when i take him away from home he is the most responsive, relaxed and obedient horse out there... how does that work??!

 

[Miss L Toe]

OK, well I suggest you only feed Speedy beet and linseed meal plus vits and minerals,which is what my boy gets, and he is fairly calm at the moment, skin is good and no weight issues.
Check any feed he is getting for sugar, it must be no more than 5 percent.
Your TB has been in training, so he will be used to lads bridging reins and, with the hands apart, moving the reins from side to side to encourage forward motion if he is reluctant to walk forward, I think this is called "rowing"
When out hacking, I have to keep a light contact most of the time, only loose reins when I am sure he is relaxed, learn to bridge the reins and let your hands rest lightly on the withers.
There are certain napping places, where he has developed a habit, this is why he is better at new places, try to select a route where he is not napping, yes I know!!! and use this route for your hack, even if it means going up and down the same road. It will take quite a while to get your horse out of these habits, and you need to watch his ears for "thinking bad thoughts", kick on as soon as you anticipate any sort of hesitation. Do not pat him to reassure him , only pat him after he is walking forwards.
Re dropping the shoulder, difficult but you could try longer length of stirrups and a neck strap, there is no shame in holding on to it, [plus the mane] iat all times, if you are happy to ride him, you need to keep his mind busy with gridwork, most work done at the walk, and some at the trot. My boy objects to a short whip more than a schooling whip, which he associates with guidance rather than punishment.
Leg yield is an invaluable exercise when out hacking, also singing!

 

[Girlracer]

OK, well I suggest you only feed Speedy beet and linseed meal plus vits and minerals,which is what my boy gets, and he is fairly calm at the moment, skin is good and no weight issues.
Check any feed he is getting for sugar, it must be no more than 5 percent.
Your TB has been in training, so he will be used to lads bridging reins and, with the hands apart, moving the reins from side to side to encourage forward motion if he is reluctant to walk forward, I think this is called "rowing"
When out hacking, I have to keep a light contact most of the time, only loose reins when I am sure he is relaxed, learn to bridge the reins and let your hands rest lightly on the withers.
There are certain napping places, where he has developed a habit, this is why he is better at new places, try to select a route where he is not napping, yes I know!!! and use this route for your hack, even if it means going up and down the same road. It will take quite a while to get your horse out of these habits, and you need to watch his ears for "thinking bad thoughts", kick on as soon as you anticipate any sort of hesitation. Do not pat him to reassure him , only pat him after he is walking forwards.

This is very interesting, ok i will try this. I'm never going to give up on him (who would want him anyway!) and i have promised him that so long as i don't have a serious circumstance change he's here for life. He's a frustrating little toad though, i've had it all with him!

 

[Miss L Toe]

You have the option of getting a good lad from a racing yard locally to come and ride him out of it, but of course you need to be prepared to keep at it until it works, and this may not be the best option, but bear it in mind

 

[jeeve]

It does sound like he is trying to tell you something,so I think it would be worth a physio session and getting the saddle checked.
I have had serious issues with napping and my trouble was I turned into a 'victim'.I would just hang on,terror struck, and my mind would go blank!

I took my boy for walks in hand,did loads of work on the ground and as my confidence in him came back I started getting on again. Sometimes,just getting on,sitting there,flexing him a bit,then much praise and get off. My 1st hacks after the napping were sometimes only a few yards.
My confidence in him grew,and his confidence in me grew.
Now when he naps(a rather pathetic attempt compared to what he used to do) I no longer become the victim. I move his shoulders,do circles,reinback, whatever I can to feep his feet moving and he soon works out its easier to do as asked and go forwards.
Good luck, its a bu**er when you stop enjoying your horse.

Good advice above, do what you feel confident doing, and if the horse will not go forward, use yields. In particular, i focus on disengagement of hindquarters, (which helps prevent rearing as well), you basically need them to flex their neck, lateral bend in neck, tip their nose a little (either to right or left - say left), and then put left leg on behind the girth, and ask left hind leg to step under the horse (in front of right hind leg), do this a couple of steps, and allow the horse to straighten, do the opposite side and straighten. After a couple of gos, give the horse the opportunity to go forward after straightening, and often they will.

I have just taught my 12 yr old daughter this as her pony has just started napping, after years of being really good. It gives her something to do instead of siting their getting frustrated. She took th pony up the road the other day, and this worked, as every time the pony stopped she just did it again (both ways) and then ask for forward. It will take a little time to break the pattern.

This pony of ours, was so bad (when we first got her), we stopped riding her for a while, as I did not want the kids on a pony that reared. But using the disengagement of hindquarters over a period of time, plus working really hard on helping her feel; comfiortable in environment where she was ridden. (She was worse in places she had not been to before). So I floated her to pony club grounds on non rally days, and we rode her there with our other ponies to help her get used to it. i also got someone experienced to ride her out 1-2 days at these grounds (a track work rider).

In the end she just completely forgot about napping and has been a dream pony. The only reason I think that she has started again, is as my daughter is now 12 she is becoming a teenager, and can get quite stressed and hormonal. I think that this is transmitting through to our very sensitive mare, she has picked up on it, and napped once or twice on the occasions my daughter has been stressed or anxious or whatever it is that teenagers are, and the napping is starting to come back. That is the problem is the rider at the moment. I had to wait until my daughter would try my suggestion, as being a teenager she does not always listen to her mum, but once she was ready to listen, she has now tried this a few times, and is making progress.

 

[amandap]

OK, well I suggest you only feed Speedy beet and linseed meal plus vits and minerals,which is what my boy gets, and he is fairly calm at the moment, skin is good and no weight issues.
Check any feed he is getting for sugar, it must be no more than 5 percent.

I'm not experienced with ridden problems but I really second this. I'd possibly add magnesium oxide as well as yea sacc or even something like succeed as stomach and or bowel soreness can cause behavioural problems. Have a look here, I have read peeps getting very good results for some horses who scoped clear. http://www.succeed-equine.com/successful-outside/temperament/
Review his grazing and possibly think about even soaking his hay to reduce sugars further.

I wouldn't push on myself until you get him stabilized and calm. Neither of you need the stress or risk.
Good luck and stay safe.

 

[deicinmerlyn]

OK, well I suggest you only feed Speedy beet and linseed meal plus vits and minerals,which is what my boy gets, and he is fairly calm at the moment, skin is good and no weight issues.
Check any feed he is getting for sugar, it must be no more than 5 percent.
Your TB has been in training, so he will be used to lads bridging reins and, with the hands apart, moving the reins from side to side to encourage forward motion if he is reluctant to walk forward, I think this is called "rowing"
When out hacking, I have to keep a light contact most of the time, only loose reins when I am sure he is relaxed, learn to bridge the reins and let your hands rest lightly on the withers.
There are certain napping places, where he has developed a habit, this is why he is better at new places, try to select a route where he is not napping, yes I know!!! and use this route for your hack, even if it means going up and down the same road. It will take quite a while to get your horse out of these habits, and you need to watch his ears for "thinking bad thoughts", kick on as soon as you anticipate any sort of hesitation. Do not pat him to reassure him , only pat him after he is walking forwards.
Re dropping the shoulder, difficult but you could try longer length of stirrups and a neck strap, there is no shame in holding on to it, [plus the mane] iat all times, if you are happy to ride him, you need to keep his mind busy with gridwork, most work done at the walk, and some at the trot. My boy objects to a short whip more than a schooling whip, which he associates with guidance rather than punishment.
Leg yield is an invaluable exercise when out hacking, also singing!

Agree with this:

Also have you considered ulcers?

Mine occasionally plants and naps. I've never allowed it to get to the rearing stage. I have found the best way with him is to just quietly sit it out for however long it takes and then he'll eventually walk on as if nothing had happened. Shouting, pony club booting and using the stick did zilch and in fact made him worse. He still occasionally tries it on but soon realises we're not going home.

 

[saddlesore]

Agree with advice given above, but I'd also get him checked for pain. Horses don't do things for no reason! I'd get a full work up by a qualified equine osteo and see what they say. Its possible that boxing up and going xc or whatever is raising his adrenaline levels enough to block out any pain, but he is very aware of it at home. If he is a complicated and sensitive horse his pain threshold may be very low hence this would make sense.

Worth a try imo!