napping, how do i stop it ?

[hannah90]

i have had my new mare just over a week. Sec. D welsh cob, 4 yr old. She was an angel the first time i took her out, since then she has played up a bit. She stops dead, and refuses to move. Try and make her move she bucks, or spins around and tries to run the other way. Or just stands there and ignores me. Her teeth, back have been checked, saddle fitted so dont think its any of those. Any suggestions on how to stop this are more than welcome !

 

[evj]

Turn her in a circle, my boy forgets what he was fussing about if I do this. If she won't budge then wait her out. Sounds like she's trying it on .

 

[hannah90]

Thanks, I tried the circle thing, i think she is smarter than me though, we just ended up turning around, then stand still again ! The people in a house nearby had a great laugh ! we were there a while ! I think she is just seeing what she can get away with, just dont want it to get worse !

 

[jenni999]

I go backwards past whatever my horse is napping at so he can't see it. Soon he realises he's gone past whatever it was and walks on. He has napped for the whole 8 years I have had him but he still tries it on....

 

[AmyMay]

Take it quietly, and patiently.

Point her in the direction you want her to go, and quietly ask her to go forwards. When she spins, bucks or rears, don't react - simply turn her back around and ask her to go forwards. Repeat, and if no joy - sit it out, making sure you have plenty of time to just sit there until she just walks forwards.

Remember, she's young, you have little history on her, and have no idea what she's used to or what stage of her education she's at - so don't go in all guns firing.

 

[LauraWheeler]

Hi My pony Herbie is the king of napping so I feel your pain

When does your mare stop? Is she scared of something or just taking the micky? Is she the same in company?

There are many ways to deal with napping.

Waiting them out.

Turning circles.

Turning round and making them walk backwards.

Hacking out in company.

The only thing that worked with my boy was to get off him as soon as he stopped and litraly drag him up the road get back on and ride him till he napped again. Then I had to get off and drag him again. It was very frustraiting and tireing and took along time but he is now over his napping out hacking and I can ride him for a whole ride
It's a case of finding what works best for your horse. People will tell you one way will work but i'm afraid there is not one way to deal with napping as every horse is diffrent.
I hope you find a method that works with your mare. x

 

[evj]

Then let her get bored ;-) Mine was a horrendus napper in his previous home. Mini rears, going backwards, spinning and generally being a pita. He's only mega napped a couple of times with me, always alone and generally if he's seen something really scary (dumped sofa will do it). I always ride with a schooling whip and sometimes a little tap will send him forwards if he plants, either that or growling and basically bossing him about till he goes forwards. If he spins we keep spinning, if he reverses we keep going basically anything that makes it easier for him to give in

 

[Kallibear]

She's a baby who (as far as she's conserned) has been kidnapped from her known home and safe place and is now being told to go out and explore the big scary world, carrying someone she doesn't know or trust. First time she was on superduper good behaviour because her new human might just eat her if she didn't but, now that seems unlikely, she can refuse to go.

Entirely expected to be honest.

Spend time making friends and gaining her respect on the ground. Take her out inhand for walks. Take her out in company.

Do NOT take her out by yourself if you cannot make her go as all it teaches is proper napping.

Hitting her harder isn't the answer. With mares esp it just makes them more stubborn. Either wait the nap out, gently encouranging her to go forwards ( with your voice and legs), preventing any backwards progress (that includes even looking behind her)then praise when she goes (even if it's just single step initailly) or get off and lead her until she's confident again.

 

[Caol Ila]

I don't think anyone on the web is going to be able to solve your problem. You should find a trainer or some confident rider to help you.

How experienced are you with green horses? How well-schooled (for a 4-year old, so not very) is your horse? Does the horse understand "forward" in other contexts, like in a school? Has the horse been hacked out much before? The horse, being 4, is surely quite green. Is it comfortable with carrying a rider? I've seen loads of green horses resist because they're not yet confident with the weight of the rider, feel unbalanced, and if you're a prey animal and feel out of balance, you're not going to be happy.

When a horse "naps" (I really hate this word, by the way), 98% of the time, you get some signal that their going to balk, spin, whatever *before* they do it and this is when you need to redirect the feet. I can't tell you online what to feel for; this is why having experienced help is fundamental.

Put yourself in the horse's shoes. You're in a new, potentially dangerous, place with a new herd and your new herdmate wants you to leave the safety and security of the barn and venture out into the world with her. New herdmate has yet to convince you that she's sensible, much less that she is the herd leader, so you're not sure if it's safe to go out there with her. Why should you go?

 

[Caol Ila]

Cross-posted with Kallibear.

 

[evj]

To add mine is 10 and naps no matter how long he's lived somewhere. 4 year olds (I missed that bit) I have no experience off

 

[Mark Gilbert]

I spend alot of time with welsh sec d,s for a local stud. As a breed they are amazing allrounders, however they are very clever, but also very sensitive and have an abilty to remember things!

If you ride in company encourage her to take the lead. She is only 4 and she will take a while to grow up, 7 upwards is still young! she will take a while to get to know you and trust you (another thing they like is to get to know you before they trust you). Take your time and but be firm (use your legs not a whip this will build her trust of you and what you are asking her too do is safe). Take her back to basics as she is so young if you cant get her going by riding try lunging then move onto long reining.

It may seem mad but I swear welsh sec d's can read minds so clear your mind take a deep breath and focus on where you are going, they love positive riding, and when you have her going you will be able to get so much out of her, this is a fab breed!

 

[Scoutie]

As someone has already said she has been taken from where she felt safe and secure, she is only four and does not know much about the world. It takes time, when I got my mare she was nine and napped for Ireland (on one occassion she walked up and down a long drive nineteen times until she decided leaving the yard was the best option)! It took six months before she would walk out by herself without putting up a fight, even now (six years on) she always walks away from the yard very, very, very slowly; at every turning for home she asks if she should take it (to the point that it is now very funny!).

Using the whip made absolutely no difference at all and like your mare she just set her jaw; it was just consistent encouragement to go forward, never letting her win and basically making friends with her until she trusted me. I also found what she liked to do, hunting, and this has had a lasting impression on her thinking forward.

Just a point to note, she is always much worse when she is in season.

 

[hannah90]

Thank you all, given me some other things to try ! As some of you hsve said, she is just just a baby, just think she is pushing it ! dont want it to become a problem though ! and as for company, i dont have anyone to ride with, so if any of you are in my area, feel free to come along ! if you are very small i have a 11,2 mare you could borrow ! thanks !

 

[mightymammoth]

Some great advice on here let us know how you get on

 

[mightymammoth]

By the way what's your area? I'm on my phone so can't see

 

[hannah90]

By the way what's your area? I'm on my phone so can't see

im in pontypool, south wales

 

[jessx27]

It may seem mad but I swear welsh sec d's can read minds

Yes I believe they can!!
I had a Welsh D that would not hack out alone, nappy as anything. I found the only thing that worked was to get off and lead him for 5 minutes to get him walking forward whenever he started napping, then jump back on once he'd stopped thinking backwards. A lot of people wouldn't recommend that but it worked for me.
He would, however, go anywhere if there was someone on foot. So if another horse for company isn't an option, try that.

But in the end he reverted back and ended up getting sold. He was a nasty piece of work! I'm no longer a fan of Welsh Ds

 

[Goldenstar]

A four yo in a new home being expected to hack alone and napping is simply over faced .
It's the same as asking them to jump to high or to often ,young horses need company to learn how to hack out .
You need to find a way of getting other horses for hacking , if you cant then try a friend on a bike but although some horses who napp are being naughty and need to be firmly reprimanded I am 99.9 % sure your horse is just too inexperianced for this at the moment try to get some lesson on her and see if the intructor will go out with you even if it's on foot once she / he thinks it'ssafe.
I have broken horses who would alone from the start but they are the few most need company.

 

[Caol Ila]

As a possibly controversial side note, I would like to delete the word "nap" from the horse person's vocabulary. They don't use it in the US. I think it's too pejorative and to me, it connotes punishable, "naughty" behaviour, when most "napping" is simply horses being horses and behaving in undesirable (to us) ways due to inadequate training, health issues, lack of confidence, etc.

I can't say categorically that there isn't a horse out there who naps out of sheer bloody-minded naughtiness or to just get out of work and irritate his rider. There may be one. But I doubt this is most horses and as, supposedly, the partner in the relationship with large frontal lobes and a brain capable of handling abstract, complex problems, it's our job to work out what the "nappy" horse is trying to say.

 

[Elsbells]

She's a baby who (as far as she's conserned) has been kidnapped from her known home and safe place and is now being told to go out and explore the big scary world, carrying someone she doesn't know or trust. First time she was on superduper good behaviour because her new human might just eat her if she didn't but, now that seems unlikely, she can refuse to go.

Entirely expected to be honest.

Spend time making friends and gaining her respect on the ground. Take her out inhand for walks. Take her out in company.

Do NOT take her out by yourself if you cannot make her go as all it teaches is proper napping.

Hitting her harder isn't the answer. With mares esp it just makes them more stubborn. Either wait the nap out, gently encouranging her to go forwards ( with your voice and legs), preventing any backwards progress (that includes even looking behind her)then praise when she goes (even if it's just single step initailly) or get off and lead her until she's confident again.

^. ^
THIS

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

A four yo in a new home being expected to hack alone and napping is simply over faced .
It's the same as asking them to jump to high or to often ,young horses need company to learn how to hack out .
You need to find a way of getting other horses for hacking

My thoughts exactly! Its a big ask for a green horse in a new home to hack out solo from the word go, and TBH I think a step back is needed to get the horse confident in their new home and with the new rider, perhaps with some professional help as well.

 

[Kallibear]

most "napping" is simply horses being horses and behaving in undesirable (to us) ways due to inadequate training, health issues, lack of confidence, etc.

I can't say categorically that there isn't a horse out there who naps out of sheer bloody-minded naughtiness or to just get out of work and irritate his rider. There may be one. But I doubt this is most horses and as, supposedly, the partner in the relationship with large frontal lobes and a brain capable of handling abstract, complex problems, it's our job to work out what the "nappy" horse is trying to say.

Whilst I agree that plenty of horses nap for 'reasonable' reasons (pain, fear etc) there ARE plenty of horses who nap simply because they don't want to do what's asked, usually hard work. It's an attitude thing: not all horses have a desire to expend unnessesary energy and would much rather stay here, thanks. There is always a reason napping but it's not always an acceptable one! There are plenty of lazy horses who'd just rather not work hard (like people!) because they find it an effort.

I have one. He does as he's told because he's a submissive little soul but in reality he'd much rather just stand, dozing (or even better, eating). If he plucked up the courage he'd try nappying (he did once and got a hard smack for it!). On the other hand I have a youngster (not yet broken) who desperately loves to rush about and do some work : he's the kind of horse who would only ever nap for 'acceptable' reasons (fear/pain)

 

[hannah90]

Whilst I agree that plenty of horses nap for 'reasonable' reasons (pain, fear etc) there ARE plenty of horses who nap simply because they don't want to do what's asked, usually hard work. It's an attitude thing: not all horses have a desire to expend unnessesary energy and would much rather stay here, thanks. There is always a reason napping but it's not always an acceptable one! There are plenty of lazy horses who'd just rather not work hard (like people!) because they find it an effort.

I have one. He does as he's told because he's a submissive little soul but in reality he'd much rather just stand, dozing (or even better, eating). If he plucked up the courage he'd try nappying (he did once and got a hard smack for it!). On the other hand I have a youngster (not yet broken) who desperately loves to rush about and do some work : he's the kind of horse who would only ever nap for 'acceptable' reasons (fear/pain)

She has everything fitted properly, everything checked, so its not pain. Not fear, and she isnt lazy as such, when she is going, she is very good and forward. So i would agree that they do do it when nothing is wrong !
! And thanks for your earlier post, will try leading ! As some have said though, i think back to basics may be a good idea, long reining etc, until she is happier to go !

 

[Kallibear]

She has everything fitted properly, everything checked, so its not pain. Not fear, and she isnt lazy as such, when she is going, she is very good and forward. So i would agree that they do do it when nothing is wrong !
! And thanks for your earlier post, will try leading ! As some have said though, i think back to basics may be a good idea, long reining etc, until she is happier to go !

This is where the danger comes in tell people that sometimes they ARE just being naughty. You've automatically assumed she's just being naughty and doing her a disservice.

Your pony is one of the nervous, unsure variety. She is 4 yrs old and doesn't know you from adam. Why the hell should she trust you to hacking with?! You say she's forward going normal so there obviously isn't lazy. You feel she's not in pain. Her only reason for not wanting to go and do some work is lack of confidence, in herself and in you.

Caol Ila is right: MOST napping had a good reason for it: lack of confidence(as in your case) is the main reason. But it's untrue to say there's not just lazy little wotsits that would rather not do much work. how you deal with the two is very different and getting it wrong can be very damaging for the horse, so it's always safer to assume intitally that they're doing it for a good reason.

 

[Littlelegs]

The easiest way to stop a youngster napping is to not put it into a situation it feels it has to. So as others have said, build up slowly, you really need to find others to hack with. The horse is just doing what's entirely natural.
We have one who's behavior could fall under the heading of napping occasionally. She had separation anxiety, thus we spent a lot of time building her confidence & letting her learn that alone had positives. It was done so slowly & on her terms that she's never had cause to nap. But as she loves her work, we have the opposite problem. If she is alone & feels the hack has been too short, or boring she naps at the far end of the drive & avoids going back up it to go home, trys to march off round the block again! Luckily, its rare her hacks are too short for her liking.

 

[Polotash]

Ok, firstly she is a baby and she is a new home. This means she is uncertain/ worried about her surroundings, but she is also testing you as a new rider. Follow these steps:

1. Ride her out in company. Take it in turns to go along side and in front. This is how babies learn to be bold. If she stops and spooks get the babysitting horse to come along side but make yours take a step in front, and then the babysitter comes along side, and so on, step by step. This was she learns to lead but has support. DON'T let her tuck in behind by dropping a shoulder which they like to do. If you see something scary and want to tuck her in then YOU make the decision to tuck in and actively turn her, don't let her slither in behind!
2. Once she knows the rides and knows what cows/ bins/ round bales/ flappy plastic hide where you can start taking her out alone. Take a helper on the ground but get them to walk behind you. If she is genuinely scared of something (massive tractor etc) then your helper can come to her head while you pass the scary object, then go back behind again.
3. If she is confident with her rides but is still napping then this is when you need to be more determined. Again you need a helper. If she is used to being lunged and respects the whip (but is not scared of it) get your helper to carry one. This is NOT to smack her with, it is to give her a firm "go forward" aid which she should respond to. If she is not used to being lunged or does not respect the whip get your helped to carry a small bucket of sand or fine grit. Use as follows:

- Horse stops and is thinking about napping
- Rider gives a firm "walk on" kick and vocal aid (again, the one you use for lunging)
- If horse walks forwad, big pats - trotting forward also helps her think forward if she will
- If horse stays still and ignores the aid the helper throws a handful of grit at her bum. They don't need to get close so can't get kicked, and it just shocks the horse into moving forward, without walloping it, which leads to resentment.
- As soon as horse goes forward, even if she scoots, massive pats and praise
- Repeat as needed

Worry not, she will get more confident, and all babies nap ;0)

 

[hannah90]

Thanks littlelegs and polo tash, as i have no one to ride with, do you think OH leading our little pony along would be the same thing !? He will hate it, but im sure pony wouldnt mind a walk ! They are friends already

 

[Crugeran Celt]

She's a Sect D its in her genes to push the boundries! I would take her out in company whether thats another horse or someone walking. My sect d is 10 and he will still try to convince me that he couldn't possibly walk past the terribly scary thing that no human eye can see or human ear hear! Patience and the time to sit there and say ok we will wait, usually works as he gets bored and then walks off as if the whole thing was my fault anyway.

 

[baby_dudley]

So glad to see this as a subject as had my mare 2 months now and she has just started this. Luckily yard owner was following in the car when she done this, but she has been perfect and my ride Saturday was the first time she done this so badly. I was really disheartened. I tried the patient approach I tried the vocal approach , tried circling but she wasn't moving forwards for toffee
My mare is 10 though.