Napping - I need some help please!!

[Sophie&Edward]

Hi All,

Thank you very much in advance for any feedback that I might get from this. I am struggling to handle it on my own at the moment!

A couple of months ago I purchased a beautiful 4 year old KWPN who is 17hh and still filling out! He is very well behaved apart form his napping on the roads. It started with him not leaving the yard but I have got round this by walking him down the road in hand and getting on using somebody's garden wall! However this has now progressed to him refusing to walk past certain scary stuff (which we usually manage to get past after lots of persuasion). The main problem is when there are other horses on the side of the road or going in the opposite direction. I can't get him past them once he has seen them so I have to get off and walk because I refuse to turn him around. If I stay on him then we tend to get rearing and feet stamping which I'm worried could get dangerous with lots of cars around! I'm struggling at the moment to find other people to ride with as well so we have to find a way past the napping!

If anybody has any suggestions they will be very welcome.

Thank you.

 

[webble]

Does he do it in company or just if you are on your own? He sounds like he is lacking confidence at being away from other horses especially if he is still getting to know you

Can you get someone to hack with you start by following them then build up to going in front? Or maybe have someone on foot walk with you a few times then progress to them walking behind you?

You have my sympathies I had similar problems with my mare last year and still do now and then - flippin horses

 

[Sophie&Edward]

Thank you for the advice (and sympathy), it is very annoying and takes forever to ride out because I'm on and off like a yoyo! He only does it when he's out on his own but because my other horse is out of action at the moment I don't have much choice. Do you think I'm doing more damage by getting off and walking him past the horses when he messes about? I always get back on again afterwards, even if i'm very close to home because I don't want him to think he will get away with it!

 

[lamlyn2012]

I don't think it is wrong to get off and lead him past. You are defusing a situation without making a big fuss. I find the best thing to do is turn the horse in very tight circles again and again until he gets fed up and wants to go forward. Turn him to his soft side, the number of turns you do will depend on his respone but if he refuses to go forwards you circle again and again until he does. You will need to protect his legs with brushing boots.

 

[webble]

Thank you for the advice (and sympathy), it is very annoying and takes forever to ride out because I'm on and off like a yoyo! He only does it when he's out on his own but because my other horse is out of action at the moment I don't have much choice. Do you think I'm doing more damage by getting off and walking him past the horses when he messes about? I always get back on again afterwards, even if i'm very close to home because I don't want him to think he will get away with it!

Possibly I was told not to get off but sometimes it is just safer not to have the argument especially on the road and on something that big!! As long as you keep going the way you want to he still hasnt won and thats what matters

 

[EAST KENT]

spurs are good!

 

[webble]

spurs are good!

Depends on the horse my mare is a proper mare and when she gets into a tizz napping its patience and softly softly a tap with a whip or spurs just annoys her and she gets stroppy

 

[Surreydeb]

I don't see anything wrong in hopping off and giving a young horse some confidence on the ground, so long as you end up going where YOU want. My youngster was walked in hand absolutely everywhere before being broken and is so confident enquiring and happy to ride anywhere alone past anything. I think the bond made on the ground has translated to a horse who is happy and confident to go anywhere I ask mounted. I don't like battling with a youngster, I don't think it helps their confidence at all. Mine will approach anything new she is asked and will often investigate with her nose and suss out its ok!

 

[Sophie&Edward]

This is great advice and make me feel a lot better about how I've been going about everything! Although it is annoying to keep getting on and off when out hacking (especially 17 hands up!) I don't want to have arguments with him because as mentioned, I feel like it will destroy his confidence and our relationship. Good advice about the spurs and the circles though, thank you. I might see if a martingale helps as well... not sure though :-/...

 

[Victoria25]

I had an ex racer that did this and it was soooooo annoying so i feel your annoyance. He'd just refuse to move and I mean not move. I'd be riding down a main road and he'd just stop - the amount of people that stopped and asked me if I was ok .. lol ... yer Im fine just having a rest I'd kick, kick a bit more - then after 10 mins of just stood there I resembled that kid and Thelwell pony - kicking screaming throwing reins at him - anything for a reaction whilst he took in the sights .... then next thing, he'd just walk on ...

Like you he was 16.2 and me at only 5ft 3 (on a high day) meant I needed a garden wal but because he wasnt the easiest horse to ride in the world I think the whole thing was a non-starter!

I agree with what someone else said though - I dont think getting off, leading past scary object is a bad thing - you dont want an accident

 

[Floxie]

I don't think it is wrong to get off and lead him past. You are defusing a situation without making a big fuss. I find the best thing to do is turn the horse in very tight circles again and again until he gets fed up and wants to go forward. Turn him to his soft side, the number of turns you do will depend on his respone but if he refuses to go forwards you circle again and again until he does. You will need to protect his legs with brushing boots.

Thanks for this - I have a similar problem where he gets it into his head that he's just not going to go (sometimes even with a horse to follow) and we get bunny hops, spinning and reversing. I usually give in and hop off (always if there's likely to be traffic) but was wondering how to deal with it from up top - seems leaving it too long and getting into a battle of wills is counterproductive, but I'd like to 'win' occasionally without having to find somewhere to get back on

 

[Brightbay]

See, I don't look on it as winning or losing. I look at it in terms of what behaviour's being reinforced (I'm a psychologist ). So I have a tricky, nappy horse - and the aim of a hack is that the horse and human walk or trot calmly around a route chosen by me. The aim is that we don't stand still for any length of time unless we're waiting at a junction (so standing still needs to be something horse will do willingly when asked) and the other aim is that we go the direction I want.

So based on that, I think it is always better to dismount if there's a discussion about something, because the alternative is that my horse gets to try out a whole range of different behaviours, none of which are the ones I want , and some of which may even succeed, even temporarily and thus get stored in his "things I can do when there's something scary" memory bank.

On the other hand, me getting off and leading briskly past the scary sticky point fulfils my aims, and gives me the chance to have "standing still in unusual location while small rider clambers back on 17hh horse" practice

And since I haven't "punished" standing still (when he's napping) by flapping, spurring, kicking etc., when I DO want him to stand still, he does

Just a different way of looking at it - it's my biggest bugbear, but I rather have a low energy, low stress hack and dismount if necessary than have disagreements The more I've taken this approach, the less I've had to dismount...

 

[spacefaer]

If a horse is http://m.equitationscience.co.uk/Clinics.htmlttp://m.equitationscience.co.uk/Clinics.htmlapping, it means that it's "go" response is not sufficiently established - the horse should understand the forward aid well enough and trust the rider that they walk past scary objects and other horses.

You need to go back to basics and make sure that your horse is truly listening to the aids - getting off and leading him is sensible in the short term as you are avoiding escalating the situation and establishing the behaviour, but until he listens and accepts the "go" aid, you won't progress.

I regularly re-educate nappy horses and riders and it's something which can help in all aspects of handling and ridden work.

 

[spacefaer]

If a horse is napping, it means that it's "go" response is not sufficiently established - the horse should understand the forward aid well enough and trust the rider that they walk past scary objects and other horses.

You need to go back to basics and make sure that your horse is truly listening to the aids - getting off and leading him is sensible in the short term as you are avoiding escalating the situation and establishing the behaviour, but until he listens and accepts the "go" aid, you won't progress.

I regularly re-educate nappy horses and their riders and it's something which can help in all aspects of handling and ridden work

EDITED - on phone so can't edit the original post - this is what I meant to say - sorry!

 

[Echo Bravo]

Many years ago my young mare would stop and start, and I would ask her to go a few steps further than she wanted to go and as soon as she did this a pat on the neck than home, but sometimes she really could be a right cow and plant herself. SOOO I'd just sit there on her and not do a thing, till she got bored and moved on and then I'd make her go much further, once I sat there for an hour and that day we went all the way round with out a further hitch, some days she'd play madam but only the odd turn.

 

[Highlands]

Check leg aids are understood, then leading out in company with you leading the whole way to build up confidence, then blinkers on ( sheepskin) cheeks to stop the nosy..., I want to talk stop.......

Short and sweet, small circular route with a whip whoop etc.Dont let her stop.

If still dressage whip etc and don't be afraid to use. My mums highland is lazy at best of time if she was let she would nap. She tried it, mum gave her two cracks with a whip... Never again and before someone comments no she was not hurt ( just shocked)

 

[Charlotte&&Prince]

Could you not try having someone walk out on foot with you just to give you a lead when he stops. It just needs to be someone who knows when his behaviour is getting dangerous. Obviously if he's likely to rear even if someone is on the ground to help give confidence then you might need to rethink the idea. I find that whilst hacking with another horse is great at first, it very quickly makes a horse rely on company too much. The issue here is that he's not stepping out properly without another horse so maybe having a lead on the ground, just someone to lead him past the big scary leaf, might help him a bit. Also you could try desensitising him, tarpauline, a traffic cone, pilates ball, plastic bag on a crop, even a whistle or something. Whilst it'll help with any spooking, it might also give him a bit of confidence in himself to deal with whatever has scared him. Also long rein him on the roads, long reining builds SO much confidence in younger and older horses! It requires the horse to move forward and in front. Take someone else with you if you can to both keep you company and also help tuck him into hedges if a car comes past!

 

[lamlyn2012]

As Charlotte&prince has said, we have had good results with having someone walk in front too.it just gives them that extra bit of confidence.

 

[BevyB]

My girl does this and at times it can be so dangerous. Any new hack I do now I always tend to walk in hand the first time so that there isn't too many surprises next time round in the saddle. She still naps but no where near as bad if I hadn't walked it with her first.

 

[mandwhy]

I feel your pain it can be very frustrating. Nothing wrong with getting off at all, as long as you are still going forward and never letting the behaviour equal the reward of turning back. I don't think of it as letting them win so much as allowing them to give in to their anxiety and saying 'yes you're right, its too hard, maybe we should go back', which we would all like to do sometimes when life gets tough!

I took my horse out loads in hand before I rode her and still do now, in fact I did today just for fun and she is so relaxed and forward and doesn't care now, you will get there! If we did, you will

An instructor will help if you still have trouble, I had literally one lesson and it was about 50% better, in my case it was more 'ignoring the aids because you can't make me' rather than 'im scared and I want to go home!' Although she does do both! There is a difference and its important to be understanding but show that it will be ok to still keep going.

That first lesson did involve a few smacks from the whip, but have rarely had to use it recently. I wouldn't smack a horse that was terrified and wanting to rear, and don't forget sometimes its ok to let them look and take something in rather than always pushing, but can be difficult when you hare roads to deal with I know.

 

[Caol Ila]

If a horse is napping, it means that it's "go" response is not sufficiently established - the horse should understand the forward aid well enough and trust the rider that they walk past scary objects and other horses.

You need to go back to basics and make sure that your horse is truly listening to the aids - getting off and leading him is sensible in the short term as you are avoiding escalating the situation and establishing the behaviour, but until he listens and accepts the "go" aid, you won't progress.

I regularly re-educate nappy horses and their riders and it's something which can help in all aspects of handling and ridden work

EDITED - on phone so can't edit the original post - this is what I meant to say - sorry!

This. A lot of my students have horses with napping issues and when I sit on these horses, one of the first things I find is that they are not remotely in front of the leg. Of course, a horse who is perfectly forward in the arena can get scared and refuse to go when out hacking, but I often find nappy horses who are very behind the leg at all times. If your horse takes a massive amount of leg to get going when it's happy and relaxed, you're stuffed when you encounter that scary plastic bag on the trail.

The second thing is increasing the horse's confidence in you and in hacking out alone in general. Remember, your horse has millions of years of evolution telling him that leaving his herd and venturing out of his safe environment is a bad career move. You get the odd horse who isn't bothered and would hack out on its own the day after you back it, but this is the exception rather than the rule (I had one -- he was fantastic, but I thought if he lived in the wild, he'd last about five minutes as he would have boldly sauntered up to a mountain lion to say hi). Take out the horse in groups of well-behaved, confident horses so he has miles on the road in company. Let him lead the group on occasion. Ride away from the group, as far as he lets you without throwing a fit, and then return. Also, ride away from the yard and if there is a point where he refuses to go, turn around before that point, while he is still being good. Then (if the geography of your yard allows this), ride off in a different direction as far as he will go without a tantrum.

I also like to occasionally school them in the arena after a hack, as I don't want them to always associate going back to the barn with being untacked and returning to their mates and grass.

 

[spacefaer]

I couldn't endorse your post more Caol Ila!

A further approach I have worked with, if I feel the horse is genuinely worried by hacking, whether not happy about leaving the herd, or not confident about the world away from the yard, is to ride and lead

Obviously your ride horse has to be 100% trustworthy but if you get the nappy horse out happily like that, the rider can then accompany the ride horse herself. If you back this up with work getting the horse more obedient to the aids in the school, it can then transfer to the nappy horse/rider combination hacking out confidently together

 

[LizzieWizzie]

Hi All,

Thank you very much in advance for any feedback that I might get from this. I am struggling to handle it on my own at the moment!

A couple of months ago I purchased a beautiful 4 year old KWPN who is 17hh and still filling out! He is very well behaved apart form his napping on the roads. It started with him not leaving the yard but I have got round this by walking him down the road in hand and getting on using somebody's garden wall! However this has now progressed to him refusing to walk past certain scary stuff (which we usually manage to get past after lots of persuasion). The main problem is when there are other horses on the side of the road or going in the opposite direction. I can't get him past them once he has seen them so I have to get off and walk because I refuse to turn him around. If I stay on him then we tend to get rearing and feet stamping which I'm worried could get dangerous with lots of cars around! I'm struggling at the moment to find other people to ride with as well so we have to find a way past the napping!

If anybody has any suggestions they will be very welcome.

Thank you.

I realise I am re-igniting an older thread! Apols all... But was wondering how the OP had progressed with the napping / rearing issue? Have come across this thread looking for advice for a very similar situation which I have with my young ISH. Have walked out in hand for miles, lots of ground work, some schooling. he's very forward and mostly brave, but then something gets him - horses calling from a field we passed today - and we've spun around, he's reversing into the hedge and threatening to rear bouncing on his front feet. Have been under a horse that's flipped before and don't fancy being there again, so would like to nip this in the bud without creating an argument at all... Am sure it's a confidence issue, he can be stubborn and a bit of a teenager, was hoping to take him out more with my vintage mare, but the hard ground has got the better of her old legs

Would be great to hear if OP worked through this.... Thanks everyone.