Napping in the school

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Stary

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Hi all,

So a quick up date first- sent the Smokey (7yo connie) on schooling livery for 5 weeks back in dec/jan, got a dually headcollar and put some brave pants on.

Smokey improved massively. First the good we are now hacking out in company in front walk trot canter forward going no issues (occasionally jumps for a bird but can forgive that- can be a bit tense when I am stressed but again essentially very good) on the ground fab- no more striking yay! But he has a new game- I take him to a local school once or twice a week (with our other horse) and he has started being consistently nappy although it is a different thing each week- today was walk to trot transitions literally throws on the breaks cow kicks with a hind leg if I ask him to go forward etc....i just ride him through it, eg 1 squeeze 2 kick 3 whip- (he is lovely and responsive on hacks never have to do more than squueze) so i think he is just being naughty and after 10mins and about 15 tantrums he will walk trot canter absoloutely fine, although after he did once or twice just stop if I asked him to trot but only half hearted.

It's so frustrating any suggestions to avoid the 10 minute arguement every single time :( - (sometimes it's a spooky corner, sometimes he won't circle one rein sometimes he won't canter) My instructor has ridden him through it, if he does it she sorts him out with one massive smack then he does a huge catleap buck (which I would come off if I did) then he is perfect forward light responsive for her for the rest of the session (and generally a couple of times without her around after that). I do not hit him anywhere near that hard. I know when i pony club kick it hurts more. My instructor says if I'm not brave enough to hit him hard when I am on him then get off hit him on floor then get back on but this isnt exactly a great solution :s

He will school in the field next to his without a hissy fit and jumps there fine too, it's literally like he is just taking the mick. We have come so far but this is now really getting me down, I hate having to argue with him everytime :(

He has a good life- living out atm, hacked out at least twice a week schooled jumped lunged groundwork obstacle course etc and at least a day off a week etc it would just be nice if he didnt feel the need to be a brat about schooling if he just got overhimself it would be 20 mins twice a week surely that is not too much to ask? Maybe I shouldnt try to reason with a horse lol.

Eventually I would like to do some low level dressage/eventing but at the moment that seems a long way off!

Any thoughts?

Thank you
 
some 7 year olds just go through a teenage phase where they test their limits. it is frustrating, but with a horse that age and that clever it's just one of those things that arises. it won't last forever and it sounds like he is getting on with the job once he is reprimanded. the chances are he will be a super little eventer/dressage horse once he grows out of it.

He sounds like he has a huge amount of positives, a clever horses can grow to love dressage and see it as a challenge once they mature a bit. he is brave and wants to go in front out hacking, which is a really positive thing. he jumps on grass fine already and has done obstacles, which is a bonus for eventing.

he's just seven, he doesn't know the rules yet, he's working out what he can get away with. if consistent riding and a wallop or pony kick fixes it, then he will learn eventually and grow to be a lovely horse.
 
My first thought is to find a proper instructor who will have a better approach than yours seems to have, telling a client to get off and hit their pony is not my idea of training neither is beating him if he is reluctant to go, it is obviously not working if he still has to be beaten to get going each time she gets on, there are far more sympathetic and correct ways to train that will have a better result long term, this way he is just learning to fight you, if he is good everywhere else I would think he finds the school difficult for some reason, the surface or the tighter turns making it harder for him.

He is not being a brat he is trying to tell you something and no one is listening, if you continue he will escalate his behaviour and it will probably start to show in the hacking as well as the school, I would check the saddle asap, he may well be uncomfortable schooling in it but fine or able to cope out hacking, you can reason with a horse but you have to know that he is able to understand and be physically able to do as you ask.
 
Thanks for the thoughts/suggestions, basically covered both sides of my thinking dilema- either teenage tantrum or struggling and trying to tell me something :s I am happy to get saddle rechecked it's not been done since autumn so worth doing :) The surface is nice, not deep (I think nicer than grass- he used to do this napping on grass but it was usually accomanied with a spin and dropping shoulder which thankfully we seem to have resolved:) ) it is a 20x40m school and the smallest I ask is a 20m circle and a few shallow loops. Hes a 15 hh compact horse so really I don't think school is too small. He can canter 15 m or smaller circles on grass. I probably ask more of him in school which he gives after his tantrums (the field is a bit long atm needs topping etc). Im not a fan of getting off to hit him either :( I just wish I knew it was just a teenage phase- then id be happy to wait it out and keep being firm but fair etc as long as there is light at the end of the tunnel as it were. We do get there after 10 mins, I did go to another local instructor and she pretty much said Im doing everything she would advise but perhaps being too patient? She occasionally flicked a lunge whip at him from the ground which helped but again not a long term solution! My instructor has only ridden him twice in the school first time he did the buck, second time he was perfect for her. So it is me :s I think I might get her to come ride him again (not been for couple of months) and see how she gets on.

It's like we go three steps forward then its a week before schooling again in menage and we have to start all over again...
 
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He sounds like the spitting image of my horse

Out of interest do you know his breeding? pm me if you like. Mine is xd with a Tb but I know he has lots of fully connie siblings
 
Just a thought - could it be the surface? My old riding mate didn't go well at all in a wood chip arena I used to ride her in and I'm currently grading my arena as I suspect it's got deep in patches due to dry weather (rubber). My current mare is being investigated for intermittent lameness and I've not ruled the school out as the cause. I'm not against pushing a horse through bad behaviour but he might be telling you something which is worth a proper think through first.
 
Your horse is 7, still a teenager, yes its a long time to leave the saddle between checks( at this age). My pony used to be difficult to mount when his saddle was wrong, then he would stand in the school and wave his hind leg about, trying to say his saddle was wrong. So many people tried to tell me he was having me on and being a "Kevin", luckily I just got him checked. So much is now labelled as behaviour/naughty when in fact a tweak of the tack is all that's required or A check from the dentist, a visit from the back man. My little cob changed shape so much between 7 and 8 it was amazing he could walk let alone carry weight in the saddle. My vet described it like trying to walk in high heels with different height heels. With the grass coming through until he was fully check I'd do my schooling out on hacks, once the grass settles and he stops growing, back into the school but keep it short and sweet. Take heart EVERYONES horse appears to go better for the instructor :) If it didn't they wouldn't be much of an instructor. Being firm and fair is good , as long as the horse is capable at that point of doing as you ask. Giving a slap/tap with the whip is not the end of the world but has to be kept for those moments when it can be effective.
My current horse Kevin started planting a few months back, i rode through it and kept him going. I had loads of advice about how not to let him get away with it, to beat him through it, he is being naughty and napping do not let him get away with it!!! My rider (solid old school type) hit him hard several times with a whip and was surprised when he went rodeo with her. She also was booting him with all her might. In the end i showed her the simple method of just waving your crop over his head. However, that is beside the point, we rode through and kept him going, so then he started to bog off, i rode though that too. i was told he was taking advantage of me and to go up a bit and break his jaw if need be (??) Apparently I was letting him get away with stuff. Then one day he just bolted in the school, I came off and took out a fence, cue broken hand and sore bottom (thank you point two, I walked away) We now think he was injured in some way, the vet thinks he was in pain and he sucked it until he could no longer. I did not listen as hard as I should have. Yes stay firm but also listen :)
 
Update- he has got gradually worse to the point he is being very nappy in field to ride too. Had physio out-possibly a bit tight back of saddle recommended remove prolite pad but everything else fine happy with saddle fit.

Equine vet came out physical exam followed by trot up, flexion tests, lunged w/t/c and I rode no lameness seen but did at least demonstrate how nappy he can be when ridden. Says he looked like he was being naughty as seems very relaxed when walking/ trotting between episodes, and doesn't appear uncomfortable, but she has given him 2 week bute trial. She was also happy with saddle fit. Awaiting saddler next week for third opinion on saddle fit. Vet says if not improved on bute then get instructor to ride. Not really looking for advice at this point but thought I would update incase anyone was interested!

Thanks
 
Thanks for the update, its so frustrating when there isn't a clear answer. As the vet said to me, "you could spend ten thousand pounds, find lots of issues and still be non the wiser as to whats causing the main issue" I do not believe in naughty horses, just misunderstood ones. It might now be ingrained behavior, which will now need to be gently trained out. In the end he is still a baby. I feel for you, as you are doing you best and its not working or at least seems not to be working. I have hit a brick wall with Kevin, he is planting again, once again everyone is doing the "oh get someone to ride him through it" like I can't but where did that get me before. Like you I am waiting for the saddler !! If Kevin doesn't come right , I am planning to turn him away for a long break and see what happens.
 
Stary said:
Update- he has got gradually worse to the point he is being very nappy in field to ride too. Had physio out-possibly a bit tight back of saddle recommended remove prolite pad but everything else fine happy with saddle fit.

Equine vet came out physical exam followed by trot up, flexion tests, lunged w/t/c and I rode no lameness seen but did at least demonstrate how nappy he can be when ridden. Says he looked like he was being naughty as seems very relaxed when walking/ trotting between episodes, and doesn't appear uncomfortable, but she has given him 2 week bute trial. She was also happy with saddle fit. Awaiting saddler next week for third opinion on saddle fit. Vet says if not improved on bute then get instructor to ride. Not really looking for advice at this point but thought I would update incase anyone was interested!

Thanks
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Has the vet not suggested scoping for ulcers ? Mine behaves this way when her tummy has flared up
 
Notimetoride said:
Has the vet not suggested scoping for ulcers ? Mine behaves this way when her tummy has flared up
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And bute will make matters worse, a bute trial is useful but it does not prove there is no pain but can prove there is so is a good starting point, the other thing to consider is PSSM, the signs can be extremely subtle and vary from horse to horse so just because he doesn't show all of them don't rule it out as he is obviously uncomfortable and getting worse, it could be behavioural but it is more likely there is a physical reason at the root of it.
 
We have a Connemara, and she has been through some real teenage phases. I have found that if I lunge her in the area I'm trying to ride in (for us, the difficult place has beenin a field, think bronco impression) and drive her forward when she's reluctant, I can then ride without difficulty. She doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between ridden and lunged work, thankfully.
These days she's grown up a lot, now 9, and we can ride straight in the field without difficulty, but it's taken a lot of persistence. Hope this helps
 
Seems to be a real Connemara thing, as my Connie x TB 5 year old is being an utter brat atm. From saint to satan.
 
Update- no improvement with bute trial (but no worse). Saddler out no issues. Had a friend lunge him then school him a couple of times and I've been riding him daily and he's come on quite well friend is riding him weekly. Hardly any napping and took him clear round jumping and he was very well behaved and waited patiently even with other horses messing around.

I think he may be a horse that just really benefits from daily work even if it's only 20 minutes. So fingers crossed onwards and upwards :) until the next thing lol
 
Sounds like progress!
Our Connie is just the same, she needs constant work, and will pretend she's forgotten everything if not regularly schooled.
I'm sure he will get better if you just keep on doing what you're doing and gradually stretch him to do more!
 
Our connie tested the boundaries when he was 6/7, became very nappy in the school and to hack on his own, although he'd happily scoot round a sj track without a stop, and gallop round a xc track (except for a ditch) but put him in the school he'd pick a place and nap with some attitude, same out on hacks. My daughter just learned to stick at it and ride him through it and by the time he was 8 he was doing a reliable test and really starting to shine in local open ODEs. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him except he was a clever pony and my daughter was 12. We invested in regular lessons with a very good trainer who was also small enough to school him, interestingly the better and more confidently she rode, the less he napped and XC ditches ceased to be a problem. Yes, of course it's important to check out tack and for physical problems when a horse starts to misbehave but IME there are occasions when what is required is consistent riding with clear boundaries and that is true whatever the age of the horse. Good luck , I hope you get this sorted. I just love connies but they can be a bit testing at times.
 
Yep my baby Connie has suddenly become nappy to hack alone- testing boundaries all over the place. Babies eh!


oldie48 said:
Our connie tested the boundaries when he was 6/7, became very nappy in the school and to hack on his own, although he'd happily scoot round a sj track without a stop, and gallop round a xc track (except for a ditch) but put him in the school he'd pick a place and nap with some attitude, same out on hacks. My daughter just learned to stick at it and ride him through it and by the time he was 8 he was doing a reliable test and really starting to shine in local open ODEs. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him except he was a clever pony and my daughter was 12. We invested in regular lessons with a very good trainer who was also small enough to school him, interestingly the better and more confidently she rode, the less he napped and XC ditches ceased to be a problem. Yes, of course it's important to check out tack and for physical problems when a horse starts to misbehave but IME there are occasions when what is required is consistent riding with clear boundaries and that is true whatever the age of the horse. Good luck , I hope you get this sorted. I just love connies but they can be a bit testing at times.
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I'm glad you have seen improvement. When I first read your post about not wanting to trot and kicking out behind I would have said 100% that your horse had gastric ulcers.
 
Sorry to jump on the thread, but I'm looking for a little advice..
I've recently acquired a pony, previously ridden with no problems by kids etc, then out of work for a while.
Now I can't for the life of me get him to stop napping! getting him to leave the gates for a hack, avoiding contact, refusing direction, pulling towards the school gate or bottom corner where the stables are visible, it's driving me mad!
He's the kind of pony that once you've sternly told him, he'll stop doing it, and I'm definitely not letting him get away with it and prasising him when he's good, but I'm at a loss! Cantering a trotting now to leads to being dragged into corners and I don't want to be rough on him...

Teeth and saddle are fine. I may try a micklem bridle?

Any advice?
I'm a confident rider and if I start something with him and he's a little s*** I'm happy to see it through and show him I'm not accepting his behaviour, but it's EVERY time!
 
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