napping-what should I do?!??!

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pagancluf

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I have come to the end of my tether?!?!

The ex-racehorse I bought 7 months ago has turned out to be a monster!!

He was a pure gent, schooled nicely, jumped for England etc, now he has decided that he does not want to leave the yard for a hack! Runs backwards and then spins, on a hack he will follow but not take the lead any more? he runs backwards and if you hit him throws bucks in.

Got my instructor (and SSM's) to have a go this week and sed she needs to beat the crap out of him for a week to get him right - Sorry but is this necessary? (I am a softie-prob why prob occured etc??) but is there a kinder way? (teeth done, back done, new saddle tested etc)

Does anyone know of a more gentler approach? Horse whisperer etc as I feel so cruel. Any ideas suggestions welcome, please xxx
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OK I guess you have had all the physical checks - teeth, back, saddle done?
If so you need to be getting this horse moving forward. I wonder about lunging or even long reining him out to start with (The idea being that you are driving him forwards). Try this before riding again. I agree that you may have to get quite assertive to get him moving. If you don't feel happy you could ask your instr to try?
 
I am afraid you do need to be tougher. My mare used to do exactly this and I got to the end of my tether too, I asked her to go forwards with my leg if she tried to spin etc, she got a sharp smack. I did at times get off her and lead her up the road, but ALWAYS got back on and continued with my ride. She doesn't even give it a moments thought now and I can hack her alone anywhere. If he has been checked he is taking the pee.
 
I'm no soft touch, but sometimes beating the living daylights out them just won't work and my gelding is a prime example. You could describe him as a typical "Kevin the teenager"!! The more you smack him, the more likely he is to just plant his feet or buck/rear.
When I first backed him he was an absolute dream, like yours, it was only a few months after he'd come back from turning him away that the problems started.
Have you tried just making him stand still? Sometimes this works as eventually they can't figure out why they're standing still, and go forward. I've also taught him to walk backwards when asked, so if he wouldn't walk forward, I'd turn him round and make him walk backwards instead. However, when this recently stopped working, I started turning him in a couple of small circles, and then he'd walk on.

Maybe you ARE being too soft as I know neither you nor the horse, and maybe my suggestions are of no use at all, but they seem to be working for me! This time last year I couldn't get my lad off the yard and now I can take him pretty much anywhere, although we still have off days!)

Good luck!
 
she broke a whip on him the other day - and he pulled both back shoes off in his panic to get away from the whip on Thursday and is being poulticed every day now due to cut on sole.

Not surte thws is right?!?!!
 
Has anything happened for him to loose confidence in you? Will he leave the yard in hand with you with no problem? If yes then when he spins when you ride him, make him continue to spin, with his nose on your boot if necessary! Not just one or two circles but keep it going for a while, it worked with our old mare, who was a devil for spinning round. Good luck with it all.
 
That does sound alarming. I wonder if he has a physical problem? Or maybe she needs to be more persuasive with him.
 
Will try this - any ideas welcome - I am a nearly novice - rode an ex-racer for three years and stayed on through spooks but not SERIOUS napping before?@??

D'ont like the whip till they give approach really??
but is this the norm???
 
Ummm no that does soud way to harsh.
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Another thought do you have someone that will go on a bike. I got my OH to go in front on his bike, then eventually we would split up and meet up later making the time longer, and longer.
 
Your horse needs to be ridden more aggresively to go forward. If you are going to smack him make sure you are using your legs keeping the forward motion going. Try long reining him and dont forget to praise him for every forward movements. he must have learnt this with you over time. horses can be very cunning and you say that you are soft. He knows it. you need some schooling education too other wise he will start doing this again. Try taking him hunting (next season). cures any nappy horse..
 
I wouldn't have gone down the beating road with my girl, she was demoralised enough when she started napping on the river bank and I was so fed up that I thought s*d it and carried on spinning even though we may both have fallen in! She was bolshie and full of character, but went blank and dull for a couple of days afterwards and I thought I may have permenantly ruined her spirit, but she resumed her sparkle and we carried on sparring when she was ridden right up to her retiring three years ago age 28/29.
 
Sounds like you are being too soft....and your horse doesn't respect you as a leader. You have to either get someone else to ride him positively forward (and he may need a smack or two) or sort him out yourself (this would be best).
I used to work in a riding school where one of the DIY's thought whips were cruel. Result - she sold two horses to the school because they refused to hack out. Three smacks with the whip and they were cured!
I suggest you buy a schooling whip with a leather square at the end so it makes a good smacky noise, as the other type can cut and you don't want to do that.
Good luck
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My mare was very nappy when I bought her. The first thing I did was teach her reverse, if you 'own' reverse they can't use that against you. I was taught never to whip if they are napping as that gives them a reason not to want to go forward. If you need to give a smack turn them round to face the yard then give a smack then turn back the way you want to go and make that more pleasurable for them! I would work her in small circles, reverse her etc and basically make it harder work for her if she choses to nap, when she finally takes one step forward then release the pressure and she gets her reward. My sisters then OH is a very successful horseman in Oz and he taught me these tricks which have worked on my horse and others. If a horse refused to do anything he would use the horses decision and make it harder work for them, then when he asked for the horse to do what he initially wanted that became the 'pressure off', the horse works out whats the easiest option and then you've tricked them into believing its their idea!!!
 
change of routine/change of rider/change of attitude towrds him.


you need to get a lot firmer and stop faffing about.

show him who's in charge here, and put down some ground rules that both of you stick to.
 
Sounds like you may be a bit soft and that he has learnt to take advantage, but she has gone too far down the other extreme.
A stick should always be the last resort, unless they are seriously taking the mick.
A good crack is always better than 10 half hearted ones - it is the timing that is the key.
Personally I would change instructors for a start. You need to work thgouh this yourself.
If he is doing it in the same place/same situation (ie. when asked to go in front) then long rein him for a bit to show him he is going, and to get confidence together.
When you do ride him out again, this is what I would do.
Backwards - legs on and growl, if he speeds up pull him round and give him a crack.
Spin - Crack on the a55, inside of way he has gone. If he goes the other way straight after then pull your stick through and give him one the other side.
Buck - Laugh until he gets over it then ride him forward, there is no point in 'punishing' a horse for bucking.
It shouldnt take a week of beating, as soon as you have figured him out it will take one smack whenever he thinks about it. Within a week, he should have stopped trying altogether.
 
"she broke a whip on him the other day - and he pulled both back shoes off in his panic to get away from the whip on Thursday and is being poulticed every day now due to cut on sole.

Not surte thws is right?!?!! "
Sounds a bit OTT,
Vicijp is spot on. Admittedly when my gelding started to nap I also broke a whip - but it was a schooling whip - not ideally suited. Short whip and follow as vicijp. I dont think I would want to use the instructor that was willing to distress him so much that he pulled his shoes off. It is a case of being firm. And as Vivjp says - when he bucks - laugh - its so so so so right!
 
Ellie was a dreadful napper when i got her, infact she had been sold twice because no one could get her to leave the yard
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However I didn't know any of this so I just got on with it. She would either plant her feet in the yard or about 1/4 mile from home. Then when asked to go forward she would run backwards.

I conquered it (well almost as she still has the odd little 'try'
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) by making her stand still. She can go sideways or forwards but NOT backwards
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I did end up stood for nigh on an hour once until she decided to go forward but then she got a good pat for doing the right thing.

You could try smacking your boot rather than the horse so you get a good loud noise. If they run backwards push them forwards but if they keep running backwards then rein back until it is YOU who is dictating the direction. As soon as it is you in control ask for forward again or stop and stand. Take in the view and eventually they get sick
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If I go out by myself I wear a small pair of spurs that are only used if she naps to back up my aid. I am finding I need them very rarely now really.

Patience is the key.
Good luck
 
I hope I haven't misread that your instructor is suggesting hitting your horse. Napping to me is a sign that your horse has seriously lost it's confidence, if you allow it to be beaten you will confirm it has something to be scared of and it will get worse. I would get another instructor, go back to basics and long rein to get a proper bond and agree with vicster and fruitbat let it stand and look at whatever is bothering him until bored but do not allow spinning or reversing. If you want to keep moving turn horse round and reverse it backwards, by the time you turn back round it will be halfway past whatever is bothering it and should then get on with it.

Sorry to sound so blunt but I have been through this with my horse who had a complete lack of confidence which was pain related that then turned into habit. He is now hacking out alone past cows etc etc because of time and perseverence, if I had hit him he is the type that would never trust me again, please don't go down that route and good for you for asking for help on here, I would consider myself pretty close to novice and I have found the whole situation with my horse pretty scary at times but my word I have learnt so much so please take this as a learning opportunity and don't allow anyone to sway you from your gut instinct of protecting your horse from the heavy handed brigade. Good luck, I know that you can crack this and start to enjoy your horse
 
My pony can be a bit nappy, but is improving. He doesn't buck or rear, just wriggles backwards or plants his feet. I got some advice from people on here to teach him to go backwards when I ask, which has helped a lot. Now if he tries to go backwards of his own accord I make him do a few more steps than he wants, and he's not trying it nearly so often!.

I very rarely use my whip on him, but I do always carry one. I just kick, kick, kick until he gets bored of me kicking and goes! If I do need the whip I first do what someone else suggested and tap my boot, if he's trying to duck sideways I very gently tap his shoulder with it.

Ideally, you need to focus on WHY he's napping before you can work out what to do about it. Maybe something hurts, or has he had a bad experience out hacking, or formed a strong bond with another horse on the yard, or has he lost confidence....or alternatively has he gained some confidence and decided he'll do what he wants?

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with not making a big deal of what he's doing, hopping off, walking him past the problem area (which may be the exit from the yard), clamly walking past and getting back on. This will work for some but not others though.
 
Nsapping pony problem before and I have to say I did try everything. The YO for the livery yard we were ats approach to everything was always to be really forceful... I didnt agree with that.

She never wanted to go into the show ring but she had built up a relationship with my Dad and would just follow him in there! People were always quite impressed when she would just follow him him and then be fine!!

I know this doesnt really help the hacking situation! I just kept hacking out with my sister and eventually she got used to it. Someone has suggested someone on a bike? Could this possibl help?
 
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I very rarely use my whip on him, but I do always carry one. I just kick, kick, kick until he gets bored of me kicking and goes! If I do need the whip I first do what someone else suggested and tap my boot, if he's trying to duck sideways I very gently tap his shoulder with it.

Ideally, you need to focus on WHY he's napping before you can work out what to do about it. Maybe something hurts, or has he had a bad experience out hacking, or formed a strong bond with another horse on the yard, or has he lost confidence....or alternatively has he gained some confidence and decided he'll do what he wants?


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Agree with that
 
1st off i'd change instructor, any1 suggesting taking a horse away to beat it for a week should not be allowed near any horse. i'm a firm believer in discipline but there should be boundaries. thats abuse she's talking about, not discipline.
2nd with the napping, if physical pain has been ruled out then i'd long rein ure horse, help them to get their confidence back or to teach them they can't take the p*ss without putting urself in harms way. i've long reined loads of young TB's and never once did any of them become nappy, in company or alone, so i know its a great thing to use. and its easier to drive a horse forward from behind rather than on top.
def find a good instructor, 1 that has knowledge and patience.
. least a gud instructor wud be able to help find out why he is napping, and help solve it. i def don't think ure being soft in not wanting someone beating ure horse. in fact u must be quite restrained cause if sum1 did that to my horse they'd be getting the beating themselves lol good luck
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I'd back up everything already said... in fact as a bit of proof to the success of reversing past something I've just come back from a hack with my lad. He's an advanced endurance horse but also a very stubborn arab. He decided today that he could not possibly cross the ford at the bottom of the reservoir because there was no water in it and therefore looked totally different to how it normally does. He planted, backed up etc etc. I spun him round (think turn on forehand) to keep his feet moving - that's the important thing... that you move his feet in any direction as long as you are keeping his feet moving. This generally works but not today. So I reversed him... and reversed him. Got to the middle and let him have the chance to turn and go forwards. He still said no so I reversed him all the way across. It took a few times - with an audience of hikers who thought horses going backwards very odd! - until he'd go back and forth without protest.

It depends on the horse but with him using the stick just makes him dig his heels in even more, so much so that I never carry a stick any more.
 
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she broke a whip on him the other day - and he pulled both back shoes off in his panic to get away from the whip on Thursday and is being poulticed every day now due to cut on sole.

Not surte thws is right?!?!!

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No if's or but's , this is cruelty. Please stick up for your horse and report your instructor to the BHS for starters.
 
Unfortunately with ex race horses they can be nappy as they are used to going out with other horses. It seems that after your seven months together he may be testing you out some-what, on the other hand he may suddenly have lost some confidence and its his way of telling you.

From experience, go back to basics with him. Ex race horses have to undergo a lot of learning and seven months is a very short time frame. If you feel you have got so far, always go backwards and re-do it. Yes they learn quickly but it can give you a false impression of how they are coping, and your lad quite clearly isnt.

When I have had them, I had done my hacking out in company for at least a year and then progressed slowly, very slowly on my own.

I disagree with your instructor because what confidence he has now will be completely distroyed. You are building a bond and trust between you as a partnership and doing it the quick, easy way will only show later down the line in perhaps different ways. This horse, if given a weeks beating, could have a nervous breakdown!! He would only associate going out on his own with nasty memories.

You are quite right to ask advice, I am sorry I havent had time to read all of your replies and you sound very sensible and caring. Dont give up, it will all work out and you clearly have a lovely horse, dont let this one problem put you off, it can be resolved.
 
I would agree that if your horse is panicking then you need to calm things down. Let him stand, but not spin or reverse. My horse can get himself in a tizz if he is scared of going forward but getting beaten into it. It is better to give him a moment of standing still, then push on firmly and quietly.
 
Shilasdair - Ive been told this today and I think you may be right, will have to get harder - but bless him he must be lost without a leader so Im not doing him any favours at the mo really am I !!??
 
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