Narrow pelvis on wide horse - suggestions

[Polos Mum]

Good morning helpful people.

Does anyone have any good suggestions for how to easy hip / pelvis pain while riding a wide horse.

Tank horse has recently been fitted with a yet wider saddle as he is now 8 so mature and doing more novice level work so build proper shoulder moving muscle - that is great for him.....

But it's flared up my SI injury so I'm now back to almost constant pain across the back of my pelvis - physio yesterday said it was horrible and felt chronically inflamed.

Do the hipsaver seat savers exist anymore (a quick google couldn't find them for sale anywhere) - and does anyone rate them.

They won't help in competitions I guess as you can't have one to compete in?

Any other good suggestions - can I DIY something out of memory foam that will sit me higher in the middle - or is that a mad idea/

 

[pistolpete]

I’m sure hip savers still exist. Pain from uncomfortable saddles is miserable I have suffered too. I hope you find some help. Ultimately changing saddle is only real option I think. Good luck. The reactor panels perch you above the horse and can work for some.

 

[Polos Mum]

Thanks - I suspect the saddler will have to be back - you are right.

In which case any recommendations for brands that make a extra wide dressage saddle with a narrow twist??

Ideally interchangeable as his weight really fluctuates with fat (try as I might to keep the weight down)

 

[asmp]

Thanks - I suspect the saddler will have to be back - you are right.

In which case any recommendations for brands that make a extra wide dressage saddle with a narrow twist??

Ideally interchangeable as his weight really fluctuates with fat (try as I might to keep the weight down)

My daughter’s horse is a bit of a tank and she had a Wow saddle fitted this week (made up of second hand bits). Because the saddle has a short under flap she says it makes him feel narrower (if that makes sense!).

 

[Skib]

A gloomy reply. I cant ride a wide or flat-backed horse. Regardless of saddle and or seat saver.

But as my RI once said, there are plenty of horses out there and many I can ride. I have ridden some lovely horses and ponies over the last 20 years and have booked to try a new one for dressage next week.

 

[SEL]

WOW saddles. Can fit panels for the horse and then try out different seat shapes for you.

Not a cheap option but works for me.

Plus easy to switch out head plates and air with shape changes

 

[QueenT]

Been there, you need to find a saddle that fit both you and the horse. I went for a Prestige, but would probably get a Passier Optimum II now. All Passiers have a very flexible and adjustable tree and a lovely seat

 

[TPO]

I'm sure that @sbloom has posted about this before [from saddle fitters POV]. It might be worth searching some of her posts.

I think it was a combination of saddle fitting and pilates/stretching for the rider

 

[sbloom]

Thanks - I suspect the saddler will have to be back - you are right.

In which case any recommendations for brands that make a extra wide dressage saddle with a narrow twist??

Ideally interchangeable as his weight really fluctuates with fat (try as I might to keep the weight down)

I'm sure that @sbloom has posted about this before [from saddle fitters POV]. It might be worth searching some of her posts.

I think it was a combination of saddle fitting and pilates/stretching for the rider

I have indeed, I map pelvic shape of the rider for many of my fittings.

@Polos Mum this is a pretty new area of saddle fit in terms of the real science, and fitting from data (ie actual pelvic shape). It would be interesting to see if it's your pelvis or hips, or both. Some horses are just too wide for some people to ride and there are few good options I'm afraid. The distance between your knees as a result of his ribcage shape, may be having the greatest influence and a saddle can't help much with that. There may be options out there that suit you, for sure, but let me help with the parameters.

You need a saddle that allows your pelvis to sit in neutral, without effort/tension and in comfort. At the moment you are being tipped back I would imagine, your knee being pushed forward. A narrow twist is in the tree shape, and narrow twist trees shouldn't be used full stop, really, as they're seldom horse shaped, but certainly shouldn't be used on wide horses, the rail shape must reflect the back shape. A short, wide pelvis with narrow hips, for instance, needs a short, wide seat but then that can interfere with narrow hips, so we have to assess this all in the round, and then know how saddles fit riders in this way, the "gold standard" of rider fit as I call it, and you'll find very little out there from manufacturers apart from (mostly false) information about supposed "female" saddles, and narrow twists and monoflaps getting you closer to the horse. A wide pelvis and wide hips on a narrow horse would be VERY ill served by that. A stable rider is key for the horse to be able to carry them more easily, even a narrow rider needs support in the right place.

Below the twist is the waist, and this can be key. A traditional British saddle on a wide back will sit you on an immediately wide platform as it were - the panels are slim and wide in the middle which means no decrease in angle under the thigh, so the knee gets pushed forward. Lifting you up a little higher can certainly help, whether you do that with shimming (you could stick yoga mat shapes to the underside of a Thinline seat saver for instance, the hip saver from HM is only for treeless really) or with a different saddle, but the flexi panel saddles create width when they do that, so many not be the best choice. A deeper, rounder flocked panel may be the ultimate for this, sometimes known as a Swiss panel.

A larger seat is, usually, narrower than a smaller seat, will suit a narrower pelvis and possibly narrower hips too. Obviously you will be limited by the length of ribcage in many cases, and we still need the seat to be the right shape otherwise it still could be unsupportive.

Interchangeable restricts your options even further, be prepared to work with a shim pad when he's slimmer, if needed. Mattes and their very thin, trimmable shims is the system I use and recommend, you can sculpt the shims to fill gaps instead of relying just on a rectangle profile of thick or thin foam.

Once he's truly pushing up in front (have a look at https://www.facebook.com/share/p/QP4tz79c4CJb7QPm/, she's a RWYM trainer doing the Annie Dillon Horsemanship groundwork course and posts on her journey, it's the course I recommend the most) he'll become a little narrower in profile, if you can aim for that.

For you you may find that very focused and knowledgeable off horse trainers could help, they can often provide more than a physio, even one familiar with riders. I recommend Equimech and Pilates at Blue House and then PB Movement and their neuromechanics approach can help a lot of people.

 

[jlh]

I posted something very similar recently. I was riding in a treeless saddle on a very wide horse. There was mixed feedback but I bought a Heather Moffat hip saver and it made a world of difference. It did make me sit higher in the saddle, but I was happy with that as I was no longer in pain after 10-15 mins.
We have now sold the saddle and moved to a Wintec which, despite not being my first choice, feels amazing in comparison.
I have the hip saver in my car, ready to list. (This has reminded me to do so).

 

[Polos Mum]

I posted something very similar recently. I was riding in a treeless saddle on a very wide horse. There was mixed feedback but I bought a Heather Moffat hip saver and it made a world of difference. It did make me sit higher in the saddle, but I was happy with that as I was no longer in pain after 10-15 mins.
We have now sold the saddle and moved to a Wintec which, despite not being my first choice, feels amazing in comparison.
I have the hip saver in my car, ready to list. (This has reminded me to do so).

If you want to sell and are happy to post please PM me - def worth a try

 

[SEL]

@sbloom do you think mapping rider shape will make it into mainstream saddle fitting?

 

[sbloom]

@sbloom do you think mapping rider shape will make it into mainstream saddle fitting?

Only if people are prepared to pay for it, the assessment takes around 45 minutes to do properly and if you're adding that to a 2 hour appointment (the minimum I think it takes to fit a new saddle to a new combo) then it's hard to charge enough. I can't see it growing beyond a niche for the forseeable.

Treeless saddles can ride the widest of all but designs vary hugely so look at how much the lift you, whether they truly have any kind of twist and if so how much. See photos of riders - are most above or nearly above their feet, or are most significantly behind them? Always good to look at, gives you an idea.

 

[Polos Mum]

I have indeed, I map pelvic shape of the rider for many of my fittings.

[US

Thank you so much - I will have a detailed read.

I've had the horse since he was a ugly yearling colt. He's now 8.5 and just about mature having had several late growth phases.

I was in a wide Albion K2 jump saddle - and didn't have problems with that - I had an unhorse related injury in Jan this year so he's done less this year and is fatter than ever
My injury was just settling down (I thought)
I'm trying a Bates dressage - which I appreciate is a big leap from jumping seat.

He can only have 17 inch saddle so that's a big change too from open flat jumping to deep dressage. My bum could probably do with 17.5 in the dressage for more space (or I go on the same diet plan as him - ha ha)
but that's not an option

 

[Burnerbee]

I know how awful SI pain is - I have it on a much reduced scale to what I used to have. I don’t ride anymore but even the thought of sitting on a barrel shaped horse makes me feel a bit sick. I was thinking the other day, if I ever seriously wanted to sit on a horse again, I might have to consider side saddle! Fortunately for me I’m happy looking at them from the ground . I Hope you are able to find something that works for you but put your back / right to a pain free life, first.

 

[sbloom]

Thank you so much - I will have a detailed read.

I've had the horse since he was a ugly yearling colt. He's now 8.5 and just about mature having had several late growth phases.

I was in a wide Albion K2 jump saddle - and didn't have problems with that - I had an unhorse related injury in Jan this year so he's done less this year and is fatter than ever
My injury was just settling down (I thought)
I'm trying a Bates dressage - which I appreciate is a big leap from jumping seat.

He can only have 17 inch saddle so that's a big change too from open flat jumping to deep dressage. My bum could probably do with 17.5 in the dressage for more space (or I go on the same diet plan as him - ha ha)
but that's not an option

In which case I'd say the deep seat could just as easily be the culprit especially if you think it might be a smidge small. This https://stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk/blog-and-resources/the-search-for-knee-room may be useful too. Do you have a photo of how you sit in the seat? A deep seat is more likely to put you into anterior tilt with a hollow back, though if the twist is also too wide then the two factors will fight each other and Lord knows which symptoms would win out...in terms of how a saddle sits you I would say the hollow back is the commonest cause of back pain in the saddle.

This is an interesting discussion on FB, you'll need to join the group, Correct Schooling Discussions - https://www.facebook.com/groups/142...003&hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen and here's another from me

https://www.facebook.com/stephbloomspecialistsaddlefitter/posts/pfbid0328BuU1a9CTh34zr6EkgBqPj4a4G9tVkZ5j7BuRqHNmRBkXofUnKW5utfo7uM96EYl

 

[Polos Mum]

In which case I'd say the deep seat could just as easily be the culprit. This https://stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk/blog-and-resources/the-search-for-knee-room may be useful too. Do you have a photo of how you sit in the seat? A deep seat is more likely to put you into anterior tilt with a hollow back, though if the twist is also too wide then the two factors will fight each other and Lord knows which symptoms would win out...in terms of how a saddle sits you I would say the hollow back is the commonest cause of back pain in the saddle.

Thank you - I'll get one, I don't currently

I'd love him to have a dressage saddle as he's doing so well at that, but deep seats seem to be all that's available dressage wise !

 

[pistolpete]

So interesting @sbloom thank you.

 

[SantaVera]

I had the same issue all I can say is that I got used to it. Don't ride for too long initially and only every other day. Things stretch,my hips have widened im sure.

 

[sbloom]

Sorry, went back and edited but got distracted and you all answered in the meantime!

@Polos Mum keep hunting, they're out there (pretty much all I fit), deep seats really can be harmful, the industry has been led down the garden path and it's a part of why our horses are so flipping dysfunctional at the top level. They help riders "sit", if you can call leaning back etc sitting, on these very restricted horses that bounce around but don't allow the energy to flow through their bodies. They need big blocks as, once your knees are shoved forward from your pelvis being in anterior tilt, then you need something to hold them back, and it gives the bonus of allowing more leverage and more leaning back. Lord help us.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thank you - I'll get one, I don't currently

I'd love him to have a dressage saddle as he's doing so well at that, but deep seats seem to be all that's available dressage wise !

Get a showing type saddle the seats are flatter but they are straight cut at the front.

 

[splashgirl45]

I had an Albion legend dressage saddle which I found helped with my pain, I’ve since had both hips replaced so not such an issue, but I was in agony before and the Albion was the best saddle for me at that time…

 

[sbloom]

Get a showing type saddle the seats are flatter but they are straight cut at the front.

Although I fit quite a few they're sadly often the worst of all worlds. They tend to have wide twists to suit wide show animals, wide waists because of their construction and having double flaps, rear balanced seats (as most British saddles), a long knee roll rather than many dressage saddles actually having more knee room with a high set block and then, to top it off, GP stirrup bars instead of dressage ones. All these factors add up to make a chair seat more likely. They CAN work well, but the average showing class shows the issues for many riders quite clearly.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Although I fit quite a few they're sadly often the worst of all worlds. They tend to have wide twists to suit wide show animals, wide waists because of their construction and having double flaps, rear balanced seats (as most British saddles), a long knee roll rather than many dressage saddles actually having more knee room with a high set block and then, to top it off, GP stirrup bars instead of dressage ones. All these factors add up to make a chair seat more likely. They can work well, but the average showing class shows the issues clearly for many riders.

Totally agree just thought as op liked the flat jumping type it might be a bit of a better option.

I used to love a show saddle but I literally feel like I'm going to slide off the side now so all mine got sold.

Pancake saddles is what I call them now a lovely deep seat dressage saddle is what I love now.

 

[sbloom]

Totally agree just thought as op liked the flat jumping type it might be a bit of a better option.

I used to love a show saddle but I literally feel like I'm going to slide off the side now so all mine got sold.

Pancake saddles is what I call them now a lovely deep seat dressage saddle is what I love now.

It's interesting because if all the factors I mentioned mean you end up sitting to the back of the seat you can STILL end up with the cantle tipping your forward in the pelvis, even if it's not very high...it is SO much more complex than most people think/hope and it's why so much saddle fitting for the rider is either done to a very low baseline or is trial and error.

 

[pistolpete]

When I was struggling a lot last year I removed the knee rolls. Not sure if it will help you but made a huge difference to my comfort.

 

[poiuytrewq]

My daughter’s horse is a bit of a tank and she had a Wow saddle fitted this week (made up of second hand bits). Because the saddle has a short under flap she says it makes him feel narrower (if that makes sense!).

I was thinking that straight away but figured it was probably an extreme suggestion.
I ride a massive Normandy Cob. She’s as wide as tall.
I was expecting when I first got in her fir it to be seriously uncomfortable.
She has a wow GP saddle which is way too big for me but very comfortable width wise.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I was in a wide Albion K2 jump saddle - and didn't have problems with that - I had an unhorse related injury in Jan this year so he's done less this year and is fatter than ever
My injury was just settling down (I thought)
I'm trying a Bates dressage - which I appreciate is a big leap from jumping seat.

Given you didn't have issues with a jumping saddle is it worth considering going back to a (wider) jump saddle? That way you can probably tip forwards a little to help offload your SI, unlike in a dressage saddle where you're more 'fixed' upright?

Thinking about it, when I started riding the SuperConnie my lower back used to hurt initially - he was in a dressage saddle whereas I've only ever had jump saddles on my own horses.

 

[Marigold4]

Another gloomy reply - sorry. I had a very wide pony - a connemara but built more like a highland. XXW saddle. Caused me a lot of hip pain and sciatic pain. Sold the pony to a very flexible, yoga type lady. She is happy, and I have no more hip pain. I am just not made to ride very wide horses. Current horse is fine.

 

[Polos Mum]

When I was struggling a lot last year I removed the knee rolls. Not sure if it will help you but made a huge difference to my comfort.

I have definitely wondered about this - my knee is rammed against them (as sbloom predicted !) but having come from a very secure / blocks jump saddle to go to nothing makes me wonder if I'll just slide off - will have to check when I'm not ark building - the rain today is off the scale.