Nasty loose dog on bridle path: what would you do?

Unless you go & talk to the owner you won't know what they plan to do & could end up avoiding a route for no good reason. We used to keep our horses in a field with houses along 1 side. New people moved in to one with a dog. Dog jumped fence into field & chased the horses. Owner was apologetic, said they didn't realise he would do that etc. I thought "yeah right, you are going to be a real problem" & was really rattled & worried. 2 hours later I went back & the guy was already putting up a really, really high fence - I think he was more upset than me! So don't jump to conclusions about dog owners. The same guy was always quick to let me know if there had been any problems in the field & even checked for bottles when he saw some teenagers drinking in the field, so I was rather glad I didn't go off on one at him.
 
PeterNatt said:
Dog attacks are one of the most frequent forms of accidents that are reported to the British Horse Society.

You mentioned that whenever you ride along this bridleway that the dogs kick off at the boundary fence. There is a solution to this problem which has been used where dogs are causing a nuisance to passing horses and that is to report the incident to your local District Council who then have the power to use the '1990 Enviromental Protection Act - as ammended' to compel the owner to take action and keep their dogs well away from the boundary of the land where the problem is occorring.

If you ever have a serious problem with dogs always report it to the police stating that you felt you where in danger of being attacked 'that the dog caused them fear or apprehension' and ask for an incident number as this will ensure that it is loged in to the system. Also report it to your local District Council Dog Warden. (It is not necessary to prove under the 1971 animals act that that a dog has a history of having previously attacked and behaved dangerously).

If you ever do have a serious problem with dogs please report it to wwww.horseaccidents.org.uk as incidents are recorded by precise geographical location and can then be used as a historic record of incidents happening at a specific location.

For more information on dangerous dogs go to www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/dogs.htm or contact defra on 08459 33 55 77

Peter Natt BHS Volunteer BHS Bridleway/Access Officer
E-mail: peter.natt@btinternet.com
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I think theres a big difference between a dog barking along a fence and a dog being out and attacking, and to say a house owner cant allow their dog to use parts of their own garden is, in many cases, an overreaction and not reasonable, since horses can and should be trained by their owners to be desensitised to noisy barking dogs, provided that dog is securely behind the boundary fence.

To me, to make someones own garden out of bounds to their own animal is slightly OTT in terms of the balance between ROW users and the house owner.

Dog attacks on the other hand are totally unacceptable as is persistent chasing by loose dogs (ie not a one off accident where dog got out)
 
I agree with Bosworth, when chased instantly turn on thedog and chase it back. Our old stallion was brilliant at this and woe betide any dog that snapped at his heels, he would wallop them in a second with front or back leg.
My husband is up in arms about bad dog owners at the moment, in the last few months he's been chased no less than 8 times by out of control dogs, every time on a young horse so not in a position to shout and go for them, so he returns and speaks to the owners later, in a not very polite manner (!).
Shouting at the dog usually brings the owner running, and the trick I found most effective with owners was to say "Please can you grab your dog quickly, this horse kicked out and killed the last dog that attacked it and I don't want to hurt your dog!"
Most of them love their dogs and act fast..
Our current stallion will rear on command which is very frightening to a dog, so he rarely gets chased, but I agree, a very frightening situation for you, perhaps a friendly visit in this case explaining how worried you are may work, after all, hedid apologise didn't he?
 
I've had a few instances of dogs barking and running about and chasing the horses. Luckily, my mare doesn't give a hoot.

My husbands horse however, will kick any dog that gets too close.

Even ask the owners to get their dog, 'it won't hurt your horse'...no dear, it's the other way round....

What happened once?

Dog went flying through the air!

Dog owner went nuts, dog VERY badly hurt.

'Gonna sue you!'...

'Sure, heres my card, I'll get onto the police right away when I get home, about a loose dog going after my horse....see you in court'

Never heard from them!
 
Originally Posted by PeterNatt
Dog attacks are one of the most frequent forms of accidents that are reported to the British Horse Society.

You mentioned that whenever you ride along this bridleway that the dogs kick off at the boundary fence. There is a solution to this problem which has been used where dogs are causing a nuisance to passing horses and that is to report the incident to your local District Council who then have the power to use the '1990 Enviromental Protection Act - as ammended' to compel the owner to take action and keep their dogs well away from the boundary of the land where the problem is occorring.

If you ever have a serious problem with dogs always report it to the police stating that you felt you where in danger of being attacked 'that the dog caused them fear or apprehension' and ask for an incident number as this will ensure that it is loged in to the system. Also report it to your local District Council Dog Warden. (It is not necessary to prove under the 1971 animals act that that a dog has a history of having previously attacked and behaved dangerously).

If you ever do have a serious problem with dogs please report it to wwww.horseaccidents.org.uk as incidents are recorded by precise geographical location and can then be used as a historic record of incidents happening at a specific location.

For more information on dangerous dogs go to http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...estic/dogs.htm or contact defra on 08459 33 55 77

Peter Natt BHS Volunteer BHS Bridleway/Access Officer
E-mail: peter.natt@btinternet.com
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I agree that the OP is perfectly within her rights to report this incident. Even though it may have been a one off and the owner apologised, it could have been a serious incident and if the owner doesn't take responsiblity to make sure their fence is secure, it could happen again. It's not just horses who are frightened by large, loose, out of control dogs but also walkers and cyclists, not to mention wildlife and livestock. Dog owners have to take responsiblity to insure that their dogs are not a menace to the general public.

Not least, the dog itself could be seriously injured if it "accidently" escapes, chases a horse, and gets kicked in the head.

If you have big dogs like Alsations who leap and snarl at every passerby, I think it is wise to keep them away from the boundary fence of a public footpath or bridleway.
 
Lets not turn this post into another anti-dog rant. I live adjacent to a byway which is regularly used by horseriders. I have six foot fencing surrounding the entire boundary of my property and own five dogs. One in particular barks at passerbys on occasion. I ride daily past a house whose terrier goes apesh.t at the fence when I pass. It doesn't bother me. It may occasionally bother my horse but I don't stress over it. :)
 
ORANGEHORSE said:
I am amazed that the well informed members of this forum haven't advised the OP to contact the BHS new website to report EXACTLY this sort of incident.
http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/
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Perhaps because the dog is normally in his own back garden doing what dogs are supposed to do?

Perhaps because this was not actually a full blown attack? Perhaps because the owner, as soon as he was aware of the situation, retrieved the dog and apologised. I suspect he has already fixed the offending fence, if he has not and the same thing happens again THEN advise the BHS/Dog Warden etc.

You know we as riders already have a bad rep with the non riding public, over reacting like this is not helping them think any better of us. We are not perfect either!
 
I'm a dimwit too then. Now and again my dogs don't come back when I call them. I too live out in the sticks, and have had all our tack and rugs stolen in broad daylight, so am quite happy for my dogs to roam my property and for them to bark now and again. They aren't vicious and won't bite (they're labs, and are more than likely to have a ball in their mouths when they come to the fence!) but they can make some noise now and again. I'm not telling them to bark, and they come back when I shout them, but thats what dogs do. Obviously if someone is scared or in trouble, I will go and catch them from by the fence, but I'm not going to tell the dogs off. Everyone should be able to manage their horses going past things that make them spook, or perhaps they shouldn't be out...


Re dogs like this, I would always carry a schooling whip, and then you can reach a dog if it does attack your horse. In 30+ years of riding I have only had one dog that seriously worried me. It is quite rare for the dog to actually attack. It depends on the horse and rider's reaction to the dog.

Different people preceive things differently. From what I read, this was an annoying dog that escaped briefly and accidentally, scaring the OP, but w as recaught by its owner. . I used to have a German Shepherd - the softest dog we have ever had, and people seem to think that they will all attack. People wouldn't walk past the house sometimes if the dog was in the garden - not even barking.

As for the poster who said that a dog chased them on a bridleway, with the owner in pursuit, and they cantered off, SHAME ON YOU! You are as much to blame as the dog owner. You created the chase situation, and probably made the dog think that it is a fun game. That dog will be even more keen to chase after horse riders in the future thanks to you, so someone else may have more problems next time. If you can see that the owner is trying to catch the dog, give them a chance, for goodness sake! Its common sense!
 
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Honey08 said:
As for the poster who said that a dog chased them on a bridleway, with the owner in pursuit, and they cantered off, SHAME ON YOU! You are as much to blame as the dog owner. You created the chase situation, and probably made the dog think that it is a fun game. That dog will be even more keen to chase after horse riders in the future thanks to you, so someone else may have more problems next time. If you can see that the owner is trying to catch the dog, give them a chance, for goodness sake! Its common sense!
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OMG, I missed that one. A candidate for a Darwin award, right there... :eek:
 
Let's turn this around for a second.

You live in a house by a bridlepath with your dogs. You aren't a huge fan of horses and maybe it annoys you a bit when droppings get left near to the house etc, but it's part of living in the country. Then one day, your dog gets out of a hole in the fence that you didn't know was there. You take your dog back in and apologise to the rider - nobody was hurt so you expect that is that.

Next thing you know, you have dog wardens, letters of complaint, BHS access officers all showing up... for a minor incident that could have happened to anyone.

Wll this make you a fan of horses and their (to your eyes) snotty, up themselves, spoilt little rich girl riders in future? No, I would say not. Will you go out of your way to keep the bridlepath clear and so on? No, I would say not.

If this was a footpath on someone's land, there would be posts going on about horrible walkers, what a pain they are, block the footpath, boobytrap gates with electric fencing, threaten to shoot their dogs, blahblahblah...
 
I do think that some of the responses on this thread have blown what was a small incident out of proportion. I mean seriously! My own dogs sometimes bark at me when I ride past them and if they're out when I return from my ride then they come running at me and my horse :rolleyes: I don't care and neither do my horses.
 
I have to be honest, whilst dogs that bark when you pass them are a PITA, it isn't the end of the world. OK, so this dog got out and you were a bit frightened, the guy retrieved his dog & apologised. No biggie really?

I know how scary it can be, I get chased by a dog whilst cantering and horse went beserk and booted it in the head. Stupid owner actually did nothing, even when his dog was lying sparkoed on the floor.

My horse is excellent with dogs, our malamute often runs alongside K when we go for a gallop and often K thinks that a running dog is a cue for a run!

There is a difference between a dog actually attacking and barking at a horse.
 
Loose, out of control dogs aren't only a threat to horses and riders but also to walkers and cyclists, not to mention livestock and wildlife. Lambing season is upon us!

It's not a matter of whose personal feelings are most offended. Legally dog owners are liable for controlling their dogs and making sure they don't become a nuisance to the general public. Even a one off situation could result in tragedy.

Any member of the general public is entitled to report the loose dog if they feel threatened by it.
 
I have nothing to say about the incident but something else you mentioned, that of taking your dog out with you when you are riding.

In our area, they have updated the dog control order and if you have your dog off the lead on the road/pavement (and in some designated areas), you are liable to a fine of £80 for not being in control of your dog.

It may be worth you looking on your local councils website to ensure you are not in breach of any new laws.
 
Has no one ever had a horse get accidentally loose? Would it be against all possibility that someone unfamiliar with horses might get frightened by your loose horse in such a situation even though no harm was actually done? Would you then want the authorities to be involved in a process that could potentially lead to your horse being PTS just because it was loose and frightened someone? Wouldn't you expect an apology and an attempt to fix the fencing so it didn't happen again to be enough?
 
brigantia said:
Loose, out of control dogs aren't only a threat to horses and riders but also to walkers and cyclists, not to mention livestock and wildlife. Lambing season is upon us!

It's not a matter of whose personal feelings are most offended. Legally dog owners are liable for controlling their dogs and making sure they don't become a nuisance to the general public. Even a one off situation could result in tragedy.

Any member of the general public is entitled to report the loose dog if they feel threatened by it.
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I think most people would support that if the dog is habitually or deliberately loose on a ROW but when the dog has been in its own garden, as a one off gets out, chases but doesnt hurt the horse, noone falls off and the owner is explained to that they must upgrade the fencing and they do and it never happens again, then thats a different scenario. And the problem with the phrase 'feel threatened' is that it is totally subjective; theres no objectivity - if I feel threatened the dog is threatening, it becomes a Kafka-esque situation where reality is purely perceptions and noone has to tolerate anything.

Of course if it hurts anything, horse person or sheep then there are much more serious consequences. Speaking as a dog horse AND sheep (25) owner on that one, having even lost a sheep to a dog attack (at night so no chance of catching it).

People have lots of 'rights' and 'entitlements' these days, there's rights to complain about almost anything. But they should use them responsibly, giving the dog owner a chance to rectify the situation first and also critically being aware of the consequences for the animal concerned (ie possible destruction), and also be aware of their own role in training their horse to deal with everyday things like barking dogs and traffic and bin bags in the hedge.

From past experience, the dogs at their own homes are a lot less trouble when riding than the dogs out on walks whose owners make no attempt to keep within sight of their dog and cannot call them off when the dog then starts chasing a horse. And if a ROW runs alongside someones garden I dont expect them to have to lose the use of half their garden for their pet.
 
I think most people would support that if the dog is habitually or deliberately loose on a ROW but when the dog has been in its own garden, as a one off gets out, chases but doesnt hurt the horse, noone falls off and the owner is explained to that they must upgrade the fencing and they do and it never happens again, then thats a different scenario. And the problem with the phrase 'feel threatened' is that it is totally subjective; theres no objectivity - if I feel threatened the dog is threatening, it becomes a Kafka-esque situation where reality is purely perceptions and noone has to tolerate anything.

Of course if it hurts anything, horse person or sheep then there are much more serious consequences. Speaking as a dog horse AND sheep (25) owner on that one, having even lost a sheep to a dog attack (at night so no chance of catching it).

People have lots of 'rights' and 'entitlements' these days, there's rights to complain about almost anything. But they should use them responsibly, giving the dog owner a chance to rectify the situation first and also critically being aware of the consequences for the animal concerned (ie possible destruction), and also be aware of their own role in training their horse to deal with everyday things like barking dogs and traffic and bin bags in the hedge.

From past experience, the dogs at their own homes are a lot less trouble when riding than the dogs out on walks whose owners make no attempt to keep within sight of their dog and cannot call them off when the dog then starts chasing a horse. And if a ROW runs alongside someones garden I dont expect them to have to lose the use of half their garden for their pet.
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Fair enough.

What I objected to was the notion that people shouldn't complain about aggressive loose dogs because then the owner of said dog might have a negative opinion of the horse owners that complain! Here I think it's more a question of who is liable than whose feelings stand to be the most offended.

Generally the law is on the side of those who consider their safety threatened by loose, out of control dogs rather than the dog owners' feelings of entitlement.

It's really up to the OP to decide appropriate course of action. She knows the situation better than we do. She might want to at least discuss her concerns with the dog owner. Reporting the incident is certainly within her rights.
 
Booboos said:
To be honest having had dogs and horses all my life I can't say I have ever had an animal under complete control 100% of the time. It may be I am a dim-whit owner, but I find my animals will always find a way to surprise me despite my best efforts to train then and contain them, so I tend to be more understanding when an animal is ACCIDENTALLY out of control as seems to be the case here.
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Have to agree whole heartedly with this...'there but for the grace of god' hey??
 
You mentioned that whenever you ride along this bridleway that the dogs kick off at the boundary fence. There is a solution to this problem which has been used where dogs are causing a nuisance to passing horses and that is to report the incident to your local District Council who then have the power to use the '1990 Enviromental Protection Act - as ammended' to compel the owner to take action and keep their dogs well away from the boundary of the land where the problem is occorring.[/QUOTE said:
Do you think I could get the scarey lorries moved off the roads too, or should I just work on getting my young horse used to every day occurances if I want to ride him out and about?!!!
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Do you think I could get the scarey lorries moved off the roads too, or should I just work on getting my young horse used to every day occurances if I want to ride him out and about?!!!
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Lorries are allowed to be on the road. That's what roads are for. But if the lorry driver was reckless and out of control, there would be harsh legal consequences.

Out of control, threatening dogs are not allowed to run loose on public property or public right of ways and become a menace to the general public.

How is one supposed to get their horse "used" to large Alsations chasing, snarling, and snapping and biting at their horse's hindquarters, as happened in the OP's post? I don't think this is acceptable.

Most horses are fine with well-behaved dogs, even well-behaved loose dogs, but loose, uncontrolled dogs that chase, snarl, bite, and snap can cause serious incidents.

For the record whenever I meet a considerate dog owner when I'm out hacking (and fortunately the vast majority are considerate), I thank them profusely and praise their dog.
 
brigantia said:
Lorries are allowed to be on the road. That's what roads are for. But if the lorry driver was reckless and out of control, there would be harsh legal consequences..
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Strictly speaking this is incorrect. There are minor penalties for being reckless and out of control, the penalties only become harsh when one's recklessness causes harm. This seems more similar to this dog case where no harm was done. The consequences for the dog must be proportionate to the harm caused.


brigantia said:
Out of control, threatening dogs are not allowed to run loose on public property or public right of ways and become a menace to the general public.

How is one supposed to get their horse "used" to large Alsations chasing, snarling, and snapping and biting at their horse's hindquarters, as happened in the OP's post? I don't think this is acceptable..
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Sorry but again this is an exaggeration. A one-off accident is not the same as a menace to the general public. OP never said the dog bit the horse nor that it reached up to the horse's hindquarters. From what she did say the dog backed down fairly easily when the rider turned her horse towards her.

We must remember that reporting a dog to the Dog Warden as dangerous is the start of a process that may lead to the dog being PTS, and while I have no qualms about having actually dangerous dogs being PTS, it seems a great shame to misuse the regulations for dogs that are behaving in a normal doggie fashion.
 
Some interesting responses ...... I don't want to get the dog warden/local council involved, as hey, I've gotta live in this area too! BUT I've had to ask myself the question time and again - how would a little kid out on a pony have coped with something like this, and the answer always comes back that even though nothing happened on this occasion, it could have been horrendous.

Some people have suggested going to see the owner to tell him what happened. OK so he's a fairly well-built guy, I'm a woman and live on my own, in the local area, with my poor old mum, so if he decides to cut-up rough about me going to see him (and he might well), then I won't feel safe any more and that will impact on mum too.

Any anyway, I'd have to run the gauntlett of the two dogs anyway - not a nice prospect.

OR I could write him a letter, being polite rather than confrontational. I'd have to give my address, which again, if he decides to be aggressive, is putting myself at risk.

My feeling, after reading everyone's responses, is that if this dog ever gets out again then there WILL be an incident of some kind. I saw the way it was eyeing the horses' back ends and it wasn't a good feeling to it at all.

I don't know whether the owner knows where the dog got out, coz if not the thing will get out again and again. It must be so frustrating for a dog like this to be kept cooped up in someone's plot and see people going past and not be able to do anything about it, owners don't seem to think of this when they coop up dogs.

Soooo, the end result is that I have two options, as far as I can see: (1) ring the Dog Warden and have a chat and perhaps they can suggest a low-key form of action or (2) I write anonymously (don't like this idea) and say what happened and where the dog got out. I don't even know the name or address of the house, would have to rely on postman knowing where the "last cottage before the bridle path starts, with the two alsations!!!"
 
brigantia said:
Lorries are allowed to be on the road. That's what roads are for. But if the lorry driver was reckless and out of control, there would be harsh legal consequences.

Out of control, threatening dogs are not allowed to run loose on public property or public right of ways and become a menace to the general public.

How is one supposed to get their horse "used" to large Alsations chasing, snarling, and snapping and biting at their horse's hindquarters, as happened in the OP's post? I don't think this is acceptable.

Most horses are fine with well-behaved dogs, even well-behaved loose dogs, but loose, uncontrolled dogs that chase, snarl, bite, and snap can cause serious incidents.

For the record whenever I meet a considerate dog owner when I'm out hacking (and fortunately the vast majority are considerate), I thank them profusely and praise their dog.
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If you bother to read my post properly, you will notice that my comment was directed to the point made about dogs barking from behind their boundry fence.....Hardly 'out of control' on public property......and for what its worth, I do agree that dog owners should do their upmost to be in control but they are animals as are horses.....(and yes I have both and no my dog has never run after a horse!!!)
 
Booboos said:
We must remember that reporting a dog to the Dog Warden as dangerous is the start of a process that may lead to the dog being PTS, and while I have no qualms about having actually dangerous dogs being PTS, it seems a great shame to misuse the regulations for dogs that are behaving in a normal doggie fashion.
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And probably spend endless months in a kennel while the case went to court!!!!
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Some interesting responses ...... I don't want to get the dog warden/local council involved, as hey, I've gotta live in this area too! BUT I've had to ask myself the question time and again - how would a little kid out on a pony have coped with something like this, and the answer always comes back that even though nothing happened on this occasion, it could have been horrendous.

Some people have suggested going to see the owner to tell him what happened. OK so he's a fairly well-built guy, I'm a woman and live on my own, in the local area, with my poor old mum, so if he decides to cut-up rough about me going to see him (and he might well), then I won't feel safe any more and that will impact on mum too.

Any anyway, I'd have to run the gauntlett of the two dogs anyway - not a nice prospect.

OR I could write him a letter, being polite rather than confrontational. I'd have to give my address, which again, if he decides to be aggressive, is putting myself at risk.



My feeling, after reading everyone's responses, is that if this dog ever gets out again then there WILL be an incident of some kind. I saw the way it was eyeing the horses' back ends and it wasn't a good feeling to it at all.

I don't know whether the owner knows where the dog got out, coz if not the thing will get out again and again. It must be so frustrating for a dog like this to be kept cooped up in someone's plot and see people going past and not be able to do anything about it, owners don't seem to think of this when they coop up dogs.

Soooo, the end result is that I have two options, as far as I can see: (1) ring the Dog Warden and have a chat and perhaps they can suggest a low-key form of action or (2) I write anonymously (don't like this idea) and say what happened and where the dog got out. I don't even know the name or address of the house, would have to rely on postman knowing where the "last cottage before the bridle path starts, with the two alsations!!!"
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You dont need to put your address on the letter, and their address shouldnt be too hard to track down with the internet these days, google streetmap photos show road names etc. I just think that since you dont know that the owner is actually not prepared to beef up fence etc, and dont even know if they even know the dog got out at all, the least they can expect is that they would be told.

I do think it would be unfair to report the dog to the warden based on not liking the way the dog looked at you and the chap being 'well built' meaning you werent prepared to even let him know about the incident. It could end with the dog being put down, and he hasnt done anything wrong except be a dog. The softest guy I know looks like you would want to hide down an alley from him, and he has Rotties! but is the most caring and sentimental chap, please dont judge purely on appearance, take someone beefy with you if you are concerned, or send the letter but do something to give the guy a chance.

If you arent prepared to him know in person, I would send the letter, without an address and let him know what happened and say what you want to see happen in terms of better fencing and obviously give him a fair warning that if it happened again you would report to the warden without further notice.

I see the 'what if it were a little kid' point but (a) you cant persecute someone based on fictional encounters that havent occurred (b) lots of kids have better stickability than adults and (c) this dog has got out once to your knowledge, it may never happen again and it is much less likely to happen if you let the guy know about the incident so he has a chance to make sure of it!

good luck with whatever you decide
 
Reporting to the dog warden is not going to result in the dog being put down unless something else happens. We had to report a neighbour to the dog warden for letting her snappy little dog out to take itself for a walk and poo all over the place. The dog warden was able to explain to the owner that they needed to keep their dog in, or on s lead and pick up after it. They have been much better since. Whereas when we tried to raise the issue all we got was verbal abuse and they boyfriend banging on our door making threats.

Op speak to the dog warden they can speak to the guy and stress the need to securely fence the garden.
 
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