Nasty mare in the stable

[LaVivaElDiva]

Please bare with me as this may be a long post.

I have a 15.3 thoroughbred mare who I’ve owned for 4 years. Usually has been fine but has had a few medical issues lameness, field accidents and kissing spines (diagnosed in dec 19). Her behaviour hasn’t always been great as she is very mareish anyway but the last few weeks have been horrendous.

1. Being in the stable with her is a mission she turns to bite when you go in (hasn’t bit me yet) once she has tried she will go and put her head in the corner of the stable scowl and have her ears right back.

2. We have been riding since she was diagnosed in December for kissing spines. First few weeks were fab (abit girthy but always has been) and now we’ve hit a brick wall where she will stop dead and buck if I ask her for trot ears flat back and everything. Obviously riding has stopped as I don’t want to upset her.

3. Lunging her is a nightmare. Go in with her bridle again goes and stands in the corner again face like a slapped arse and genuinely fuming. Even putting the roller near her or standing next to her with it she will try and bite. Once she’s tried i put it on and try and girth it up and again bites. Twice tonight she has tried and about took my face off. I had been sat on a box in her stable for half an hour before I did anything and even to touch her she would go for me.

4. Whilst actually lunging her she runs into the circle to come and get me. Ears back face on the lot and as much as I don’t run away from her I’m terrified that she will come all the way and get me. Otherwise she lunges beautifully and is usually good to ride.

5. Hacking on our own she is foot perfect take her out with anything else she’s a bucking bronko mouth wide open and trying to run away from the contact and genuinely jogging 90%of the way round.

Feeding time obviously she’s as happy as a pig in shit and loves me being around her.

I need people’s opinions I’m clearly not enjoying spending time with her at the moment and with everything going on it’s usually my release from everything else. Would you say this is suspected ulcers?
Would you say this is psychological from before she was diagnosed with ks?

Anyone’s advice would be great just don’t be too harsh because all I want is to be able to enjoy it again. Thanks.

 

[AUB]

I think you need to get the vet out. This sounds like pain. Could be her KS, could be ulcers, could be something else.

 

[be positive]

You say she was diagnosed but not what treatment was given, it sounds as if there is more going on that ether has not yet been found or that the treatment so far has not been successful.
The mare here at livery was diagnosed with KS late last year, further investigation found very minor changes to one hock so that was treated as it was considered the primary issue, she has been rehabbed all winter, being taken very slowly and her attitude has improved very gradually, she was extremely grumpy and nearly bit the vet at her first examination but that has just about gone now and she is back to her old self.

 

[Gingerwitch]

May be her ovaries.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm very sorry that you are having such a difficult time with your mare. I hope what I'm about to type doesn't come across as too harsh but I do feel that I need to put my thoughts down in a simple and plain speaking manner.

Take a step back... if she was a gelding would you view the behaviours differently?

The whole post just says 'pain, pain, pain' to me.

I know it's very difficult at the moment but I really feel that she needs a full veterinary work up with a specialist... and I wouldn't discount euthanasia unless what is found is treatable, with a good outcome and excellent long term prognosis.

 

[WandaMare]

Its difficult to know if she is still in pain or just being nappy. Interesting that she hacks fine on her own but turns into a nightmare with other horses near her, that sounds more like temperament. You say she comes at you when you lunge her which is very dominant behaviour and if you get nervous, she will pick up on that very quickly.

If she was mine, firstly I would get a quality professional to come and assess her behaviour and watch you working with her and see what they advise, and if that doesn't help then talk to your vet again.

 

[Bellaboo18]

She definitely sounds in pain and therefore probably has ulcers.
You need to work with your vet to see the whole picture. You say she's had SI issues. Sadly there's probably a lot more than the KS going on.

 

[Shilasdair]

I'm another one who thinks your poor mare is trying to tell you that she's in pain (and it sounds like severe pain).

Stop working her, get a vet (when you can, after lockdown). Try to treat her as though for ulcers etc. until you can get a diagnosis.

I hope you find the cause, and things get easier for you both.

 

[DabDab]

It sounds like she's hurting, she's angry and she's letting you know

 

[AmyMay]

She has KS. Why are you working her?

 

[Bellaboo18]

Its difficult to know if she is still in pain or just being nappy. Interesting that she hacks fine on her own but turns into a nightmare with other horses near her, that sounds more like temperament. You say she comes at you when you lunge her which is very dominant behaviour and if you get nervous, she will pick up on that very quickly.

If she was mine, firstly I would get a quality professional to come and assess her behaviour and watch you working with her and see what they advise, and if that doesn't help then talk to your vet again.

I think it's easy to say she's in pain.
"Now we’ve hit a brick wall where she will stop dead and buck if I ask her for trot ears flat back and everything. Obviously riding has stopped as I don’t want to upset her".
That's nothing to do with dominance. A vet is needed.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would be prepared to bet she is in pain

 

[popcorn1]

Oh bless her. If she were mine I would turn her away for the summer to just be a horse and reassess her in the autumn.

 

[ShoutyWoman]

Agree with the others, sounds like she’s screaming at you to stop and listen cos she’s in pain. It can be hard when you’re stuck in a situation to step back and see what’s going on but hopefully writing the whole thing down will help you see the situation more objectively. If she really wanted to hurt you she would have. I think she’s asking you to stop and help her

 

[tiahatti]

I would add stress and pain especially if this is new behaviour. I take it she used to be fine in the stable, to lunge etc.

 

[meleeka]

Poor mare, she’s telling you loud and clear that she’s not comfortable. What treatment has she had for KS?

 

[AmyMay]

Poor mare, she’s telling you loud and clear that she’s not comfortable. What treatment has she had for KS?

Having read other posts on another thread, it seems the mare had injections, but she also has a history of SI problems.

OP, please get your vet back, and turn her away until this can happen.

 

[Green Bean]

I have had a recent diagnosis of KS in two spinal processes for my horse. I had ears back and out of normal bucking which led to where I am now. The vet started her on Regumate to rule out painful ovaries, then saddle fitting and blood test. Then finally scope for ulcers and X-ray. No ulcers but KS in the middle of where the saddle sits. To get to my point, there is no clear ‘yes this is the issue, you need to do x y z and it will be okay’ . All you have to go on is your horse’s reaction to you. Very difficult, what is pain, what is behaviour? Also, what is learned behaviour, in other words, pain memory, and what is real fear and pain? How long is a piece of string? Do you go all the way to an operation? Will that be the ultimate answer? KS diagnosis is the unknown, not clear like ulcers or arthritis.

 

[Bellaboo18]

I have had a recent diagnosis of KS in two spinal processes for my horse. I had ears back and out of normal bucking which led to where I am now. The vet started her on Regumate to rule out painful ovaries, then saddle fitting and blood test. Then finally scope for ulcers and X-ray. No ulcers but KS in the middle of where the saddle sits. To get to my point, there is no clear ‘yes this is the issue, you need to do x y z and it will be okay’ . All you have to go on is your horse’s reaction to you. Very difficult, what is pain, what is behaviour? Also, what is learned behaviour, in other words, pain memory, and what is real fear and pain? How long is a piece of string? Do you go all the way to an operation? Will that be the ultimate answer? KS diagnosis is the unknown, not clear like ulcers or arthritis.

I find it worrying when people suggest such extreme behaviour isn't down to pain.
I also believe it's unlikely the KS isn't secondary to other problems.

 

[be positive]

I find it worrying when people suggest such extreme behaviour isn't down to pain.
I also believe it's unlikely the KS isn't secondary to other problems.

I also believe that extreme behaviour due to pain is the last resort for many horses, most show more subtle signs first, which can be missed for numerous reasons, when they start to really shout they are usually well past the stoic stage and that if the owner doesn't listen the 'behaviour' can become more ingrained than if something is done earlier, if this is then called remembered pain it is not so much remembered as trained into them by the rider not listening.

If help is sought early enough, ideally before the shouting stage, and the issue can be found and treated, most quickly revert to the horse they were before, if they continue to shout then the treatment has not worked, the treatment has missed part of the issue, the rehab has not been effective for some reason, the rider is still not listening to the subtle signs or they are still 'training' the wrong things, possibly a combination of all 5.

Rehabbing a horse with KS takes months, it is then a case of managing for life , the OP's horse was only diagnosed in Dec so is still relatively early into rehab and probably has more going on than just the KS which is usually secondary to something else, the work needs to stop until further investigations can be done.

 

[WandaMare]

I think it's easy to say she's in pain.
"Now we’ve hit a brick wall where she will stop dead and buck if I ask her for trot ears flat back and everything. Obviously riding has stopped as I don’t want to upset her".
That's nothing to do with dominance. A vet is needed.

Yes I agree, it does sound like these are behavioural issues caused by pain. With suspected back issues, I personally find it useful to have my instructor observe because they can pick up on really valuable information to help in discussions with the vet. They are then involved from the beginning which helps when the horse comes back into work, hence my suggesting getting a professional involved early. These problems can be really complicated to work through on your own and the vets don't have as much time to advise on day to day management and handling of the horse while it recovers....in my experience anyway.