Natural coverings... questions about how you all do it?

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Foxfolly

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Now we have our stallion I was just wondering how all you stallion owners go about the whole covering procedure.

Where, how etc...

Especially interested in if you use boots on a stallion who is shod, if so what are the best ones and where do you get them from?

Also what tips you have for a 'Virgin' stallion!!
 
The best thing you can do if you have no experience and especially if the stallion is inexperienced is firstly go to a good stud where they have stallions and go and spend some time with their stallion man, seeing coverings, see how they handle the stallions etc.
Then I would ask someone who is experienced in covering with stallions to come and work with your for the first few mares.

Manners when covering are absolutely crucial, it gets very dangerous for all concerned if stallions are not polite.
Inexperienced stallion with inexperienced handler is a recipe for disaster!
 
I breed New Forest ponies. Our young licenced stallions run with a few select mares in their first season of covering and then learn to cover in-hand the following year. They are un-shod.

All our stallions are used to being around mares on the yard, exercise etc. and are treated the same as any other horse or pony. Good manners are essential. When we first started covering in-hand we were shown & assisted by experienced breeders for the first season.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The best thing you can do if you have no experience and especially if the stallion is inexperienced is firstly go to a good stud where they have stallions and go and spend some time with their stallion man, seeing coverings, see how they handle the stallions etc.
Then I would ask someone who is experienced in covering with stallions to come and work with your for the first few mares.

Manners when covering are absolutely crucial, it gets very dangerous for all concerned if stallions are not polite.
Inexperienced stallion with inexperienced handler is a recipe for disaster!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto all of this!
Covering can be very dangerous and should be done by experienced handlers. Go and watch other stallions cover in hand and ask advice from stallion men.
I've seen hundreds of in hand coverings, and things do not always go smoothly.
 
Or you could collect semen from the stallion and artificially inseminate the mare... removing most of the factors that can cause things to not "go smoothly" (he said, controversially)
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We tease the mare over the door with the stallion.
If they are receptive they turn towards him and squirt profusely and squat.
If they aren't you have to be careful they don't kick his door and hurt themselves.
When we know they are ready we put a velcro tail cover or a tail bandage on and lead them to the side of the old indoor school, sandy surface good for getting a secure footing.
The handler goes behind the barrier which in our case is 4' 8" high and padded in front with old seats from a caravan settee, we use lunge lines on both horses, but only headcollars as all ours know what's happening.
The stallion is led out one door, in the other, the handler keeping well out of reach of his hindquarters once he is in the door.
He takes his time being experienced and we don't have any problems other than he tends to lie on the mare a very long time which pees them off.!
We then put him back and don't move the mare until he is safely shut in. Remove the tail bandage, check for any small tears (rare) and that's it.
You wil find other people who spray the stallion's penis, wash the mare etc, but we allow nature to take it's course. It's everyone's own choice how fussy they are, obviously the book method is more hygenic re cleaning both mare and stallion but in twenty five years we've never had any problem hence our own way.
I make it sound easy but to get that good at it took years and lots of mistakes, like covering the same mare every day for days to start with. You only need every other day until she is no longer keen to stand by his door.
Your stallion being young is likely to be impatient and get cross, so you need a old placid mare for his first one.
He may get too excited and become too big to cover, in which case you walk him away until he's calmed down a bit!
We've never aided any of ours, they find the right place on their own, but if they do go wrong you have to be in control enough to get them out quick enough before they cause a tear.
The mare must stand still, hence our way of leaning her against the comfy barrier with the handleer in front but out of danger, or if they suddenly move sideways you can get the stallion causing a nasty and sometimes dangerous tear, that's why you need to check every time. A small amount of blood isn't a worry , but an infection will mean no foal...
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I'll stand by for all the "experts" to tell me we do it all wrong shall I?
(last mare of the four being scanned tomorrow, three already in foal...
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)
 
Hh's post shows you a very good system but more to the point it illustrates the fundamental elements of ANY successful system:

- a standard, do-able routine
- proper, safe facilities (good footing, padded barrier, longe lines etc.)
- common sense
- education and experience under supervision
- a calm, thoughtful approach
- good "everyday" handling and training

These are all ESSENTIALS if you're going to breed in hand safely, especially with sport horses, which are big and fast and athletic by definition.

It's the sort of thing people think should be perfectly "natural" and therefore easy but breeding can be a very dangerous game and if the stallion doesn't learn safe behaviours off the top (easier with some than others) it can turn into a nightmare.

A lot of people do choose to have their horses collected these days, even if the mares are on site. For a horse that's going to have any sort of modern breeding career it's almost a necessity anyway and there is something to be said for having one system and sticking to it. But collecting at home without a vet or repro tech in attendance is not exactly uncomplicated. You *can* do it without specialised facilities - using a jump mare - but obviously having a phantom etc. makes it a lot easier. I know quite a few people who ship horses to be collected but that doesn't really make sense if the stallion is being used primarily on your few mares at home.

I'd really support the idea of getting in touch with an experienced stallion handler, perhaps even letting him/her work with your boy initially to get him into the right habits and you into a good routine.

This is not really something you want to mess around with. Mistakes can be VERY costly. (Not being alarmist. btw, I know people who have been hurt badly handling horses for breeding but more to the point I know quite a few stallions who have been seriously and irreparably injured - broken legs, unintended "castration" etc - when things went wrong.)
 
I would definately take his shoes off. Even though my boy is not a full man he has inflicted some serious injuries to my filly when I had her through mounting her with his shoes on, they can cut into the shoulders, sides etc. None of our TB stallions have shoes on for this reason too.
 
Please do get help to start with here are two examples of why.

I knew someone who went to the trouble and expense of importing a young stud prospect from North America, rather than instilling some discipline (this was lacking in all departments by the way) the horse was allowed to become increasingly aggressive towards the mares he was covering, he quickly became too much as a 2yo so was allowed to run with the mares, well he got even more opinionated after that!

He got really bad and even an experienced handler found him difficult in hand and he frightened maiden mares to death. After having had some discipline and improving the owner had him back and let him run with two mares again! The poor girls got shredded!!! He was gelded.

Story 2 imported from France, as advised he stood his first two seasons with an experienced stud who charged a handling fee, he got a little arsy but was put firmly in his place before he got ideas, this year he has covered at home in the round pen in hand and is an absolute gentleman and very easy to handle, he has gone to shows and behaved very well after covering days before and is happily being ridden in the school next to the round pen!.

I know which one I prefer!

NB a trick an old hand told me years ago, he uses a very different bridle for covering than anything else, (you can even put a small bell on it to help), they are very intelligent and soon learn the difference and behave accordingly!
 
essential pieces of kit, not for everything but just in case! -

hobbles (for mare!)
tailbandage - to completely wrap all tail hair not just top!
twitch
felt covering boots for mares hinds, a good kicking the first time he clumsily jumps on can put him off for life!
chifney (for stallion if strong / rude!)
lunge ropes on both - ideally not the nylon ones, we use the softer cotton rope ones.
spare headcollar/lungerope somewhere handy just in case!

we use different bridles for covering than riding. they def get to know which one is which!
bear in mind, when you are teasing, a 4 foot stable door is not much of an obstacle for 1/2 ton of testosterone!
and you mite think a chifney is a bit harsh but bear in mind a stay in hospital is for the handler too! safety first, and dont get trapped in a corner. we always carry a stick when handling the stallion, just in case. however nice and lovely they are, many change totally beyond recognition when covering!
if there is a good stud nearby, it is def worth watching, or even paying them to help you the first few times.
 
A lot of people use different kit on stallions when they breed. Some even have different doors/areas/procedures for leading the stallion out for breeding vs EVERYTHING else. That is one advantage of AI, it isn't like anything else you do with the horse! (Although I once handled a stallion for a lameness exam and the vets asked for it to be done partly in the breeding area . . . not a great idea. It's hard to tell if a horse is lame in front if it's trotting on its hind legs!)

When I've ridden stallions regularly I've never been the person to handle them for breeding. I think it IS possible to be both to a horse but it's much easier on everyone to divide the labour and make it very clear when certain behaviours are acceptable and when they're not.
 
The only thing I would say about a chifney is that is designed to cause pain when rearing, and you need a stallion to go up. I would not advise its use by inexperienced handlers as you could cause a lot of problems.

This year we covered our own mares at home teased by the gelding next door, foals safely out of harms way in the school stood very near mum in the round pen no twitch no boots just headcollar on a willing mare, a bridle and straight bar on the a well mannered stallion professionally educated and it was a pleasure and no more hassle than AI. It was a bit strange though no scanning so back to basics and in the dark ages!!
 
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