'natural' feed balancer/supplement

Pasha said:
Yes and I suppose they are doing a better job of it than the mainstream and providing better quality minerals, but there is rarely much difference between summer and winter offerings which surely cannot be right? Should we be feeding our horses the best all year round? Again not looking for an answer, just voicing the questions that swirl about my head!
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I have carried out forage analysis at various yards and done hay, haylage and grass at different times of the year.

While there are variances in sugar and protein levels during the year, and some items like vitamin e and omega oils are missing in hay but present in grass, mineral levels have remained consistent.

Also while there are differences from yard to yard, in all calcium, manganese and iron have been high. They have varied from high to incredibly, no room left on the chart high. So for me these are things to avoid in a balancer.

On the other side Zinc,Copper and Magnesium varied from low to very low.

Iodine varied being high in one place but low in another. Phosphorous varied too but was never high.

So even doing mineral balancing, I feed the same minerals all year round but do make other changes.
 
That is very interesting - I'm now starting to become interested in iodine as that has been mentioned before. From that post the forage plus and progressive earth balancers would 'fit' in with the majority of forage analysed which is obviously why they have made them like that but none of them have iodine in. I think I'll ring Marksway and ask if they know the iodine content of their horsehage. Also just noticed you can get iodised salt licks - so if I offered my horse an ordinary salt lick and an iodised one I wonder if she'd 'know' herself if she needed the iodised one or if it would give her too much. Another thing to add to think about!
 
Pasha said:
What I don't get (and this is just me musing, I am not expecting an answer) is that we keep getting told that horses are meant to roam over hundreds of acres in the wild, gorging on summer grasses to keep them over the winter, where they use up all their fat reserves, and it is our management of them (keeping them well fed all year round) which has caused the metabolic problems we are now encountering etc etc BUT if that is the case, why do the same people (and by those I mean the Equine community/experts/nutritionists/vets) then harp on about mineral balancing and supplementing where full rations of hard feed are not fed? Would our horses really have had access to the full recommended dose of vits and mins each day all year round in the wild? Do we humans (unless we take a supplement)?

I may be an old sceptic (well not that old lol) but feed and marketing companies have a lot to answer for I think!
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^this is what I've been wondering! There's not even been any in depth scientific research done into horses vitamin/mineral requirements - it's all based on what they've found cattle do best on. And by 'do best' I guess that means make better/more milk or meat! All a big con.
Our of interest what do you feed now since having the iridologist/zoopharmacognosy visit?
 
I would be cautious with Iodine as it is one of the things that are not great in excess.
Out of 4 places I've only had to supplement once.

Tedmunster I was under the impression that research had been carried out on horses, however only at the extremes i.e. what are the effects of toxicity or severe deficiency, not on the more subtle benefits of getting the optimum balance.

What are geared to livestock are the printouts you get from the labs with colour coded high and low, however as you also get the actual numbers you can look at this.
 
tedmunster said:
^this is what I've been wondering! There's not even been any in depth scientific research done into horses vitamin/mineral requirements - it's all based on what they've found cattle do best on. And by 'do best' I guess that means make better/more milk or meat! All a big con.
Our of interest what do you feed now since having the iridologist/zoopharmacognosy visit?
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Yes and that is what my vet has told me, but there is published recommended levels for horses so who knows?

I now feed Thunderbrook Base Mix as his 'balancer' or base feed if you like with Speedi Beet - this is because it contains Micronised Linseed and Rice Bran (both ok for metabolic horses), Bio Mos, Yea Sacc, Vit E, Seasame Oil, Herbs and Fruits. My horse (and previous horse) also absolutely loves it.

I really like the fact it has no oatfeed/wheatfeed/molasses/soya oil etc

To that I add a special blend of herbs from EquiNatural - they made a blend specifically for my horse.

He has a Redmond Rock and Himalayan Salt Lick in his stable and ad-lib good quality meadow hay which is just being switched over to haylage (now it has cooked enough) that my YO produces and has been fully analysed.

In winter, and/or when competing, if he needs more I either give him grass nuts or plain grass or alfalfa with no added mollasses (I used to feed Dengie but now they've changed to Rape Seed Oil as a coating, will not be using that again I don't think! Soya Oil was bad enough!)

When he had the Iridology and Zoopharmacognosy, he was on Speedi Beet and Equimins Advanced Concentrate Metabalance, Micronised Linseed, Salt and Slippery Elm as per the ECIR Yahoo Group's recommendation (Slippery Elm for his tummy as I have always thought he had Leaky Gut or Ulcers). Catherine said his tummy was fine but he had a mineral imbalance, so that is why I changed back to Thunderbrook! He also hated the Equimins and took ages to eat his dinner, leaving most of his breakfast as well! (Catherine never recommended a feed, she just told me what the results of the iridology were - I am not sure if she endorses any one feed over another).

Catherine at Naturally Animals recommended the Redmond Rock and Himalayan Salt Block. She also recommended loads of herbs which he self selected and I used until he stopped selecting them anymore - was about 3 months! By feeding him the blend from EquiNatural I am going against Zoopharmacognosy, but alot of the blend he had selected himself and the others are specific for Cushings, so I am goimg to continue with them.

Catherine also tested if he needed more Linseed Oil, which he did as he wolfed down loads of cold pressed Linseed Oil. I brought a 5l bottle to add to his feed in addition to the Micronised Linseed he was already getting and towards the end of the bottle he had stopped selecting it.

It is very very interesting and something I think I am going to do again maybe after a year has gone past to see what he selects when in full health and full work :)
 
criso said:
I have carried out forage analysis at various yards and done hay, haylage and grass at different times of the year.

While there are variances in sugar and protein levels during the year, and some items like vitamin e and omega oils are missing in hay but present in grass, mineral levels have remained consistent.

Also while there are differences from yard to yard, in all calcium, manganese and iron have been high. They have varied from high to incredibly, no room left on the chart high. So for me these are things to avoid in a balancer.

On the other side Zinc,Copper and Magnesium varied from low to very low.

Iodine varied being high in one place but low in another. Phosphorous varied too but was never high.

So even doing mineral balancing, I feed the same minerals all year round but do make other changes.
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That's really interesting, but I guess what I still struggle with is that there is more grass in Spring/Summer, less in Winter, so even if the mineral content was technically the same, they just simply can't get as much of them as they cannot eat as much, unless you are very lucky and have enough land to be able to offer adequate grass all year round.

Sorry if I sound argumentative, I am not trying to be and I really do think mineral balancing is far better than simply buying cheap pre-mixes off the shelf, but I still have questions in my mind :)
 
Pasha said:
That's really interesting, but I guess what I still struggle with is that there is more grass in Spring/Summer, less in Winter, so even if the mineral content was technically the same, they just simply can't get as much of them as they cannot eat as much, unless you are very lucky and have enough land to be able to offer adequate grass all year round.
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If there is less grass, they should be eating more hay, so the problem is almost exactly the same.
 
criso said:
Exactly - and if your hay/haylage is not from your own land/yard you get that analysed too and take that into account.
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Well that's kind of my point about there needing to be a difference between summer and winter, as unless you are producing your own hay and haylage then the source would be different and the mineral content different! Which of course is absolutely fine if you are sourcing individual minerals and making your own blend but not if you are buying a pre-mix?

Could go round and round in circles lol!
 
Pasha said:
Well that's kind of my point about there needing to be a difference between summer and winter, as unless you are producing your own hay and haylage then the source would be different and the mineral content different! Which of course is absolutely fine if you are sourcing individual minerals and making your own blend but not if you are buying a pre-mix?

Could go round and round in circles lol!
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Sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that mineral content from a particular source would vary according to time of year.

But actually what it comes down to is if your forage comes from various sources at different times of the year then even mineral balancing becomes difficult.

With places like forageplus and progressive earth, they are providing an average but as they are looking at dozens of actual analyses they are using the info to define their formulations to provide an average. They saw trends and reacted to this.
This differs from the commercial blends who provide the RDA of everything and don't allow for the fact that a large proportion of UK grazing and forage has the same high and low elements.

Of course this won't work for everyone and that is one of the reasons that people will come on here and rave about one product while someone else will say it didn't work at all for them.
 
criso said:
Sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that mineral content from a particular source would vary according to time of year..
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Well yes I was kind of, unless you had the same amount of grass all year round or could supplement with hay or haylage from the same source... which I think we are all in agreement with :)

It's because we are all so passionate about providing the best that we can for our horses that the feed indistry has grown so huge and there is so much choice! It is now a complete minefield!

Sorry OP for going off topic :)
 
I'm lucky in that I am on a private yard and get hay from the farm across the road but lots of people have a variable hay source and can't do that. Previous yards have produced their own hay or haylage.

if you have a regular supplier then you can get that analyses but if you are buying a branded haylage it is often produced under licence by different farms so you won't know what you are getting from one week to the next.
 
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