Natural horsemanship methods

Robert Whitaker looooooves Parelli - his horse had mixed opinions, though. Funnily enough, it's really hard to find any videos of that one. :(
 
iloveCharlie5 said:
Could you recommend any groundwork exercises that would help the horse respect me and stop being bargy and pushy? Thanks so much!
Kath
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I think that to get any success with any method you need to explore it, find out the principles and reasoning as to why its done and even have some lessons / discussions with someone who is good at that particular method you think suits your way of thinking. Timing is also something you need to learn as in every methodology. To give a few examples at this stage might not really be that helpful if you are actually wanting to explore and them maybe embrace something else..... you might for example chose clicker training in the end ;) :D :rolleyes:


you asked for positive experiences of natural horsemanship methods so I am guessing that you want information / experiences .... its therefore not helpful for people to start denigrating methods using one or two examples or extreme examples as that can apply to any and all methods especially if being used / applied by people with poor understanding / skills or timing ...... or using the method in extreme ways.

One can point out the potential riskes / effects of something if applied in certain circumstances but that does not mean that the method is flawed.... eg mugging can occur in clicker training, as can frustration, but an experienced clicker trainer will recognise this and know how to get through it or not have i happen in the first place.... whereas someone new to it that has not considered it might get in a right pickle and say the method "does not work".

Natural horsemanship has its extremes ( as do others) and is a very wide "net" encompassing a wide variation of application "methods" and "clinicians" and the "severity" with which they will apply pressure to the equines.


My advice Ilovecharlie would be to read books, look at videos etc and look to what you believe and how you want your relationship to be with your horse ... look at various practitioners and their values and their horses.


My journey to where I am with my horse took me from "BHS" style and starting clicker through IH and looking at Parelli (which although I did not like led me to Silversand) and I think that journey taught me a lot. . There are "good" and "bad" elements in relation to my ethics in most of these methods and you may well find the same .......(Stayed mainly with clicker ;) ) .....just look closely and dont just accept what the blurb says ;) .
 
Monty Roberts has created a Equus online university where you can join and pay monthly to learn all his methods. It works out about £6 a month. If you're really serious about learning, it's a great way to start.

I learnt first from Richard Maxwell, but I had been to one of Montys demo's before seeing Max.
My horse was very bolshy, bargy and would pull away if I tied him up. It took about 15 minutes of initial halter work and after that, over the next few months of regular ground work, he became the perfect gentleman. Loading took two minutes instead of an hour, and I he was much calmer because he trusted me to look after him.
Over the years I have helped lots of people load un-loadable horses and caught ponies who wouldn't be caught in the field etc.
If used correctly, it makes horse owning a pleasure again for people who's lives are ruled by pushy and rude horses.
 
tazzle said:
I think that to get any success with any method you need to explore it, find out the principles and reasoning as to why its done and even have some lessons / discussions with someone who is good at that particular method you think suits your way of thinking. Timing is also something you need to learn as in every methodology. To give a few examples at this stage might not really be that helpful if you are actually wanting to explore and them maybe embrace something else..... you might for example chose clicker training in the end ;) :D :rolleyes:


you asked for positive experiences of natural horsemanship methods so I am guessing that you want information / experiences .... its therefore not helpful for people to start denigrating methods using one or two examples or extreme examples as that can apply to any and all methods especially if being used / applied by people with poor understanding / skills or timing ...... or using the method in extreme ways.

One can point out the potential riskes / effects of something if applied in certain circumstances but that does not mean that the method is flawed.... eg mugging can occur in clicker training, as can frustration, but an experienced clicker trainer will recognise this and know how to get through it or not have i happen in the first place.... whereas someone new to it that has not considered it might get in a right pickle and say the method "does not work".

Natural horsemanship has its extremes ( as do others) and is a very wide "net" encompassing a wide variation of application "methods" and "clinicians" and the "severity" with which they will apply pressure to the equines.


My advice Ilovecharlie would be to read books, look at videos etc and look to what you believe and how you want your relationship to be with your horse ... look at various practitioners and their values and their horses.


My journey to where I am with my horse took me from "BHS" style and starting clicker through IH and looking at Parelli (which although I did not like led me to Silversand) and I think that journey taught me a lot. . There are "good" and "bad" elements in relation to my ethics in most of these methods and you may well find the same .......(Stayed mainly with clicker ;) ) .....just look closely and dont just accept what the blurb says ;) .
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Thank you so much for all your advice! I will definitely look out for any new books about various ground work exercises!!!
Thanks again!!!
Kath :)
 
I got taught how to join up by an IH practitioner but I don't really use join up very much as it feels a bit like a punishment unless the horse is already running away or if the horse has a specific issue. However I am much more aware of my body language around horses now but I think that has also come with experience, I have read up more and know the more subtle signs of stress and anxiety which monty roberts methods seem to gloss over. I think as others have said it is really just common sense - it's just a shame that common sense is no longer common knowledge
 
I do have a problem with learning from a book/dvd only, i you wish to pursue ANY equine training method, BHS, Parelli, Monty Roberts, common sense, then it is VITAL that you have an actual person who knows what they are talking about and HOW to teach others to use it. I think this is where the 'packaged' training methods fall down, a days workshop watching someone with a horse you know nothing about, is no substitute for hands on consistant and continuous training. Only this can teach timing and reacting in the right way to the situation at hand.
I have seen a few horses who were very reluctant to have a bridle or headcollar over the poll. It transpired that the horses, owned by different people, had all been tied up in a pressure halter, and had pulled back. Subsequently were either sore on the poll or very nervous.
 
ridefast said:
I got taught how to join up by an IH practitioner but I don't really use join up very much as it feels a bit like a punishment unless the horse is already running away or if the horse has a specific issue. However I am much more aware of my body language around horses now but I think that has also come with experience, I have read up more and know the more subtle signs of stress and anxiety which monty roberts methods seem to gloss over. I think as others have said it is really just common sense - it's just a shame that common sense is no longer common knowledge
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I have always been nervy about using Join Up in case the horse doesn't come back after you send it away and you loose whatever trust you have with the horse already.. :/
 
Paris1 said:
I do have a problem with learning from a book/dvd only, i you wish to pursue ANY equine training method, BHS, Parelli, Monty Roberts, common sense, then it is VITAL that you have an actual person who knows what they are talking about and HOW to teach others to use it. I think this is where the 'packaged' training methods fall down, a days workshop watching someone with a horse you know nothing about, is no substitute for hands on consistant and continuous training. Only this can teach timing and reacting in the right way to the situation at hand.
I have seen a few horses who were very reluctant to have a bridle or headcollar over the poll. It transpired that the horses, owned by different people, had all been tied up in a pressure halter, and had pulled back. Subsequently were either sore on the poll or very nervous.
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Would it be okay to learn from a DVD but have someone who knows about that sort of stuff nearby who you can turn to if you have any questions? because I have a friend who knows all about that sorta stuff but I would like to be independent in my learning. Thanks :)
 
JFTD said:
just choked on my baked potato :D

Why don't you think this is the way forward, OP?
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oops! ;) my pony is quite pushy, and I think he would just resist more to a smack.
Also, he does a little buck if I give him an encouraging tap with the whip to help him into the canter transition, and hates being told off... :/
 
Paris1 said:
I do have a problem with learning from a book/dvd only, i you wish to pursue ANY equine training method, BHS, Parelli, Monty Roberts, common sense, then it is VITAL that you have an actual person who knows what they are talking about and HOW to teach others to use it. I think this is where the 'packaged' training methods fall down, a days workshop watching someone with a horse you know nothing about, is no substitute for hands on consistant and continuous training. Only this can teach timing and reacting in the right way to the situation at hand.
I have seen a few horses who were very reluctant to have a bridle or headcollar over the poll. It transpired that the horses, owned by different people, had all been tied up in a pressure halter, and had pulled back. Subsequently were either sore on the poll or very nervous.
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totally agree with this. I would never encourage anyone to start their horse with just the use of dvds, they can't really teach you the subtle body language etc. I had help from a brilliant horsewoman who used a mix of parelli and good old fashioned horse sense. My horse was never struck with a carrot stick or any other stick, it was so well done and my mare is an absolute pleasure. she didn't understand boundaries and was quite aggressive thro fear, she was terribly headshy and scared of the bit. now she is brilliant, not in the slightest headshy or aggressive, great to hack and we have a great partnership. I think a big problem with some of the horses that have been 'ruined' by any of the methods is due to people with little experience watching the dvds and thinking it is easy. I learned so much from this lady, she worked with my horse and i together.
 
Paris1 said:
I do have a problem with learning from a book/dvd only, i you wish to pursue ANY equine training method, BHS, Parelli, Monty Roberts, common sense, then it is VITAL that you have an actual person who knows what they are talking about and HOW to teach others to use it. I think this is where the 'packaged' training methods fall down, a days workshop watching someone with a horse you know nothing about, is no substitute for hands on consistant and continuous training. Only this can teach timing and reacting in the right way to the situation at hand.
.
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totally agree.....read, look the vids etc only to give an idea of what the principles are then get lessons with someone reccomended..... they can then feedback to you what you are actually doing as to compared with what you think you are doing ;)

Though I have to admit sometimes that option is not always available and one has to learn the hard way.... there were no other clicker trainers of horses around when I started so I had to adapt experience and knowledge from using it with dogs ;). I that situation its important to take it slow and think it all through very carefully ..... and be prepared to look at oneself if and when it all goes pearshaped :D :D :D :D


its not always advisable to give anyone advice about exercises to do with horses with some sort of behaviour "problem" ......sorry ilovecharlie ..... we dont know the person ( knowledge and skills) / horse / circumstances / reactions that might occur ;) . Bop one horse on the nose and he might cower in the back of the stable :( ... bop another on the nose and he might kick bopper right into next week :eek:
 
iloveCharlie5 said:
Would it be okay to learn from a DVD but have someone who knows about that sort of stuff nearby who you can turn to if you have any questions? because I have a friend who knows all about that sorta stuff but I would like to be independent in my learning. Thanks :)
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I would always rather prevent problems rather than fix them once they are there. And I think a person who is properly trained in teaching the field you are interested in is essential to beggining your learning, once there is a good grounding I think tips and new ideas can be learned from a DVD or book. But that's my humble opinion.
 
iloveCharlie5 said:
oops! ;) my pony is quite pushy, and I think he would just resist more to a smack.
Also, he does a little buck if I give him an encouraging tap with the whip to help him into the canter transition, and hates being told off... :/
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better try asking him much nicer then..

owner, please mr pony will you canter

pony, no i want to eat grass

owner, but mr pony you may as soon as you canter

pony, you cant make me

owner, i can "tap" with whip

pony, ohhhhh that tickled but now your scared so your not going to ask again so i get to eat grass quick..

:rolleyes:
 
tazzle said:
totally agree.....read, look the vids etc only to give an idea of what the principles are then get lessons with someone reccomended..... they can then feedback to you what you are actually doing as to compared with what you think you are doing ;)

Though I have to admit sometimes that option is not always available and one has to learn the hard way.... there were no other clicker trainers of horses around when I started so I had to adapt experience and knowledge from using it with dogs ;). I that situation its important to take it slow and think it all through very carefully ..... and be prepared to look at oneself if and when it all goes pearshaped :D :D :D :D


its not always advisable to give anyone advice about exercises to do with horses with some sort of behaviour "problem" ......sorry ilovecharlie ..... we dont know the person ( knowledge and skills) / horse / circumstances / reactions that might occur ;) . Bop one horse on the nose and he might cower in the back of the stable :( ... bop another on the nose and he might kick bopper right into next week :eek:
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That is what I am worried about if I do bop him on the nose; he is quite a self-confident horse in the stable and I don't want him to end up retaliating.
 
iloveCharlie5 said:
I have always been nervy about using Join Up in case the horse doesn't come back after you send it away and you loose whatever trust you have with the horse already.. :/
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It's not about the horse "coming back" with join up you're sending the horse away continually until the horse asks to come back to you. But if the horse already trusts you then I don't think join up is necessary
 
jhoward said:
better try asking him much nicer then..

owner, please mr pony will you canter

pony, no i want to eat grass

owner, but mr pony you may as soon as you canter

pony, you cant make me

owner, i can "tap" with whip

pony, ohhhhh that tickled but now your scared so your not going to ask again so i get to eat grass quick..

:rolleyes:
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You may joke about it (fear) and it's seen as a weakness, but life's way too short to be embarrassed about being scared!!! :D I doubt anyone has had a life where they weren't scared of anything!!! :)
 
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