Natural Horsemanship

[howengold]

I was just wondering what everyones opinions and experiences are.

Basically someone I know has a mare who in recent months, since seeing a NH trainer if I am honest, has began to rear. She was backed too young by someone we don't know but who we are told was a bit 'brutal' so when the person I know (call them K) bought her they carried on riding her as they did their other mare who was a lot older. So at 2.5 years old this mare was out hackingand doing little shows including jumping classes, now don't get me wrong they didn't know how young she was at the time until vetted a year later for purchase.
They didn't handle her much between riding so she gradually got more bolshy and harder to handle so they got the NH person in. K then was supposed to handle the horse more and use her £40 controller headcollar, (of which I have seen way cheaper) for handling, which they did...well a couple of times. The NH has hardlyseen the mare ridden and the lessons have been in the most inhand. Which is fine as she needed handling but they had a saddle fitter out and had a new saddle made for her and the mare is only rearing at the start of a session, 10 minutes in and she settles down to work. To me that says she needs a bit more work and to be allowed to settle down. She rears inhand now too since doing NH which to me comes across as challenging the handler more than anything because K doesn't do it enough and the mare see's her as issuing a challenge.

I believe NH can work as most of it is common sense but when it isn't done properly surely it can be the cause of these sorts of problems. Don't get me wrong I have seen the successes too but I am just wondering what is going on with this mare, who ideally needed a few months turned away before carrying on riding after K found out how young she was.

The NH person first suggested more work then after the mare was ridden just once the following week and was on her toes, decided to turn her away, then they could just hack her but no schooling??????All this decided minus actually witnessing the riding.

K, I know is also to blame in not carrying out the handling enough as well.
I hope this makes some sort ofsense as my head is banging and I am sure I have forgotten something lol

 

[Natch]

Sessions with a good trainer shouldn't result in the horse rearing more!

I don't think its really NH's fault per se - more that the trainer isn't a good one.

 

[YorksG]

Echo naturally, but also know that in most things people want a quick fix and don't put the work in themselves (this applies to lots of things, not just horses). It doesn't matter what method you try, if you don't follow it through then it won't work IME

 

[Headpiece]

I agree with above.

You cant blame it on NH, its like everything else, there are good and there are bad out there.

 

[horselover68]

I was just wondering what everyones opinions and experiences are.

They didn't handle her much between riding so she gradually got more bolshy and harder to handle so they got the NH person in.

I believe NH can work as most of it is common sense but when it isn't done properly surely it can be the cause of these sorts of problems. Don't get me wrong I have seen the successes too but I am just wondering what is going on with this mare, who ideally needed a few months turned away before carrying on riding after K found out how young she was.

K, I know is also to blame in not carrying out the handling enough as well.

You've pretty much answered your own questions. The rearing could just be a
co-incidence but usually its either a result of lack of trust in the handler and they are either doing it out of fear or as a sign of dominance to test their handler's leadership at least this is what I was taught! My horse used to do it in hand and it was because I was asking too strongly for him to do something and once I softened my 'ask' he stopped doing it.

Like anything you get good and bad trainers in any discipline, I've had/seen examples of both so its a matter of finding the person/method that works best for you and your horse as they all teach the same sort of thing, as you said yourself done properly it is very effective but otherwise it can be dangerous for both!

 

[howengold]

I agree with above.

You cant blame it on NH, its like everything else, there are good and there are bad out there.

sorry if it come across like I am blaming NH, I'm not just seeing other peoples opinions, I have a few trains of though on it just struggling at the mo to make sense as I have a headache lol.

If you read the whole post you will see I am more blaming the owner and trainer than the NH methods. Does that make sense? I think I will leave it for today as I am struggling...

 

[runaway]

Agree with whats been posted so far. The little mare is basically telling her owner to "BOG OFF" in no uncertain terms and personally the only reason she settles is because she gives in. I would be concerned it this then develops into her doing something later in the session and more "violently".

Have they checked the usual things, being as the mare was SO young she may have issues.

I have a mare that was ridden before getting turned away. Before then you had to pin her up a wall and leg the rider on. Since coming back from grass she's no better/ can't be ridden so I've done a bit of Parelli with an experienced friend and it's helped. But she's a way off being ridden. She's only had bad experiences with a rider and I'm having to gain her trust. It does take a long time if you aren't able to work regularly and frequently with them.

Good luck, I wouldn't swop my girl as it's so rewarding when she shows her affection and her trust is growing.

 

[AndySpooner]

I don't want to start the usual 'slagging off fest' that people indulge in on here when a few key words like Natural Horsemanship or Parelli is mentioned. Most opinions have been aired in one way and another, and nothing has changed at all.

What I am saying is that it is totally unfair to back a horse badly using conventional techniques, then to try a bit of NH in an effort to put things right.

NH is certainly not a quick fix, it is something as a horse owner you need to be committed to enough to study the techniques and learn how to apply them. As with everything the finished product may look good and effortless, but a lot of hard work goes into it.

I'm not saying that NH methods are better than conventional. It's up to the individual to choose how they want to manage their horse. When you have chosen, it is your responsibility to be the best you can in whichever.

The two schools don't mix, it's either one or the other. What I would say is that it is far easier to take a conventionally trained horse and be successful in converting it to NH, than to do it the other way round. NH horses will give conventional trainers a hard time trying to convert them to conventional.

There are some fantastic conventional trainers and some poor ones, just the same as in NH, but, whichever you do you have to put the hours in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiUSlNRpUO8

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Sometimes with training (any method not just NH) things will often get worse before they get better. My boy will lift his front legs sometimes if my trainer does NH with him; this doesn't happen more, or less, with NH -v- traditional, its just his way of saying "I'm not liking the fact that I'm having to do what I'm told and am challenging the authority that I'm being presented with".

So I'm wondering whether that's the case with the rearing in the situation OP mentions. Personally I'd suspect that the horse is challenging authority and is using the rearing as a form of evasion.

Having said that, rearing isn't something that one would wish to encourage, especially with a young horse, so personally I'd be asking the NH trainer what he/she is trying to achieve with this and ask them what they consider the way forward should now be, having been presented with this behaviour - I'd be wanting to know what was happening, certainly.

Also I'd be wanting to get the horse going under saddle a bit more calmly and would expect the NH trainer to begin to work on ridden work in the very near future, whilst not compromising on the necessary groundwork first.

It would be good to chat with the NH trainer and suss out from them what they expect to achieve with this horse in the immediate future, and also in say the next few months and into ridden work.

If the training isn't working - then IMO change tack and get someone else in.