Naughty foal - advice needed

[LizzieTrippin]

I’m fairly new to breeding having bred an exceptionally well behaved colt foal once before in 2021.

I bred my lovely maiden tbx to a Connie and she produced a pretty filly on 5.07.22

when I say lovely mare…she too is incredibly cheeky but I absolutely love her and she is never ever rude. She’s a brilliant mare but throws some nasty faces occasionally and bucks for England when she’s showjumping - she’s got a lot of character but never dangerous or rude.

My issue is that when the filly was no more than two days old she threw her back legs out at me. I kid you not!!

I didn’t react to this as I obviously found it quite amusing as she was so tiny and I figured it was a good sign that she was healthy etc. As time went on she started to turn her back on me more and more (still under two weeks old) the rest of the time she is very sweet, I can get the foal slip on and off, pick up all her feet and stroke her all over - she is not afraid of me and I have handled her thoroughly every day.


My mother was with me one day at around two weeks old and said nip that in the bud but I honestly didn’t know how. I’m a firm/fair horse woman and wouldn’t stand for any messing with any of my horses but I’m also very mindful about her age and what I’m teaching her. I have attempted to tell her off but I honestly don’t quite know how to do it? Do I mimic the mare as much as possible? I feel like in the occasions since the early days - I’ve been mainly caught off guard and so reacted accordingly ie she galloped past me in the paddock and kicked out so I threw the headcollar at her back end which did shock her and another similar situation where she was in closer proximity to me she full on turned her back to me and double barrelled out, I had a heavy rubber feed bucket in my hand and wholloped her around the back end with it. She doesn’t behave like this when she’s on the lead rope. She is now 2.5 months old and is becoming more and more independent. It really amazes me how far she will go from her mum and be hanging out with the herd. She is out with 6 other horses and ponies including her mum and they do teach her well but she is just so bloody naughty and I don’t want her to be kicking out at any one if I can help it?!

all the horses in our herd are lovely, polite and gentle but I’ve seen them all bite her - she doesn’t seem worried about this and is very tough. I want to be able to walk through the field without fear of being kicked! I know a lot is her age and just being playful but equally if there’s something I can be doing to stop this, I want to make sure I’m doing it.
Any advice or have I just bred a devil mare?

 

[TheMule]

It doesn’t sound out of line with normal foal behaviour, but if you do have a problem then I think the answer in this sentence 'I have handled her thoroughly everyday'
It is great that she is out in the herd and knows the basics- at this point I would back off her a bit- just do a quick check, little scratch and move on with your day. I do the same if they do go to boss me around- chuck something soft at them or clap my hands sharply.

 

[ycbm]

I think you might have been lucky with your first one, this sounds normal to me. She isn't "naughty", she's 11 weeks old, high spirited, and playing.

I think you need to avoid putting a foal less than 3 months old into a situation where you need to throw buckets and headcollars at her to stop her kicking you. It sounds like she needs to go into a field where you don't have to run the gauntlet of her feet to get other horses in and out daily. And then leave largely unhandled to grow up. Other playful horses would be best, but that would be risky unless you can match for size.

I'd strongly advise against ever throwing a headcollar at any horse, if they trod on it and got a foot, or two, through it the result could be disastrous. (I'm no saint, I've done it myself! ).
.

 

[LizzieTrippin]

It doesn’t sound out of line with normal foal behaviour, but if you do have a problem then I think the answer in this sentence 'I have handled her thoroughly everyday'
It is great that she is out in the herd and knows the basics- at this point I would back off her a bit- just do a quick check, little scratch and move on with your day. I do the same if they do go to boss me around- chuck something soft at them or clap my hands sharply.

Thankyou for this perspective, when I said handle thoroughly daily, I tend to try and at least touch her everyday in some form then less occasionally probably twice a week run my hands down her legs/pick up feet etc. I genuinely want advice though as I am new to this! Am I doing too much? I always thought they must need to be handled daily or very often so they don’t go too feral! I’ve bought young horses before who are so head shy and bad to catch due to being nearly feral and I assumed it was because they’ve been left and not handled enough. I want to do the very best for this girl so really appreciate your view x

 

[LizzieTrippin]

I think you might have been lucky with your first one, this sounds normal to me. She isn't "naughty", she's 11 weeks old, high spirited, and playing.

I think you need to avoid putting a foal less than 3 months old into a situation where you need to throw buckets and headcollars at her to stop her kicking you. It sounds like she needs to go into a field where you don't have to run the gauntlet of her feet to get other horses in and out daily. And then leave largely unhandled to grow up. Other playful horses would be best, but that would be risky unless you can match for size.

I'd strongly advise against ever throwing a headcollar at any horse, if they trod on it and got a foot, or two, through it the result could be disastrous. (I'm no saint, I've done it myself! ).
.

thankyoi so much for your response - I genuinely want advice as I don’t feel right about it - I really want to know what is normal and to be expected and how I should behave around her. I assumed foals needed to be handled daily/weekly in order to keep them tame. After all they will be much bigger and more dangerous in a year. Do most breeders just turn away and not handle them? I thought I needed to be handling her in prep for feet trimming/routine upkeep. Some days I don’t manage to get near her and I accept this but I do try and touch her most days and weekly or so put foal slip on and off. I pick up her a feet a couple of times a week.
I do need to access other horses that are in turn out with her and that’s just the way it is. She is with other young horses and she seems to defend herself pretty well already though I don’t have any bullies luckily so she has it pretty easy. I regret throwing the objects at her (the second time with the rubber bucket was mainly to defend myself as she was double barrelling/backing up to me but I agree it is not ideal to have allowed for her to do this. Wondering if I’m doing too much but equally frightened of leaving her to go feral!

 

[ycbm]

I've only had one real youngster myself but I have a good friend who has bred a lot over the years, and heard a lot of wisdom from old timers, being one myself now. The most common view was that they need to be taught to lead and to have their feet handled, then left alone as much as possible until they are at least 2 and old enough to do some ground work. Some said 3, a few 4, and all of them were in agreement that over handled foals are more likely to be a big problem than unhandled. I have also bought several unhandled horses from 3 up to 7 years old and backed them with no problems.

In essence, you aren't actually trying to teach her manners with the problem you've got, you're trying to teach her not to play, and at her age that's too big an ask for a spirited foal.

You've got a great attitude, though, I'm sure you'll get a well behaved 4 year old. ConniexTB, very nice!
.

 

[Cortez]

Your foal won't "go feral" unless you turn it out on a mountain somewhere and it doesn't see a human for years. Once a foal has been handled enough to be caught, put headcollar on and off, led, tied and feet picked up, you can (and should) leave it to the mare to bring up. Normal routine worming, farrier, vaccinations, moving pasture, etc. means it'll get enough handling as a matter of course. I wouldn't whack a foal normally, but you can't just let it kick you either - in all my years of breeding I have only had one that did this, and it was always a difficult, bad tempered horse thereafter. We used to carry a thick stick and sort of intercept the backing up and kick, allowing him to connect with the wood. When he was older he'd get a "no!", rarely had to actually whack him.

 

[maya2008]

Both of my yearlings were left alone as foals - I didn’t handle the homebred at all bar initial vaccinations until weaning, and her buddy was out on the hills of Dartmoor at that point in her life. Both are now sociable and polite with humans, easy to lead and you can do their feet. We walked them out a little this August and they won’t do much more than the necessary handling until they are 3 now.

 

[Starzaan]

Agree with posters above - you won’t create a feral horse unless you set it free on a mountain and it doesn’t see a human for the next few years.

Standard practice is to handle enough to get headcollar on, lead nicely and pick feet up, and then turn away to play and grow up. Ideally with other young horses. He sounds like he is behaving like a perfectly normal foal.

I would Chuck him out with mum and ideally some other mares with foals, and let him play. As Cortez said, general handling of moving fields, farriers, worming etc will mean he stays handled at an appropriate level for his age.

 

[LizzieTrippin]

I've only had one real youngster myself but I have a good friend who has bred a lot over the years, and heard a lot of wisdom from old timers, being one myself now. The most common view was that they need to be taught to lead and to have their feet handled, then left alone as much as possible until they are at least 2 and old enough to do some ground work. Some said 3, a few 4, and all of them were in agreement that over handled foals are more likely to be a big problem than unhandled. I have also bought several unhandled horses from 3 up to 7 years old and backed them with no problems.

In essence, you aren't actually trying to teach her manners with the problem you've got, you're trying to teach her not to play, and at her age that's too big an ask for a spirited foal.

You've got a great attitude, though, I'm sure you'll get a well behaved 4 year old. ConniexTB, very nice!
.

I really appreciate this reply - I think I will take stock from all you’ve said and start again with a different outlook. I think she is spirited and will have my hands full when she’s 4!

 

[paddy555]

I regret throwing the objects at her (the second time with the rubber bucket was mainly to defend myself as she was double barrelling/backing up to me but I agree it is not ideal to have allowed for her to do this. Wondering if I’m doing too much but equally frightened of leaving her to go feral![/QUOTE]

I would just handle her enough to be able to trim/lead/worm etc, As she grows up she will have nice spells and Kevin the Teenager spells. You will be able to do more, leading, teaching etc in the nice spells and just turn away in the Kevin spells.

I wouldn't worry about throwing things at her. I was also in this position. I took in a 3 legged hill pony colt from the common. (long story) Before he came I had to spend a lot of time visiting him each day to be able to handle him sufficiently to get him home. He was 5 months old when I finally got him home.
I was worried about him settling in with no company other than larger horses. So I penned him in front of a horse so he had company but was safe. It was a small pen. I went in and by day 2 he had got his feet very securely under the table. He backed me into a corner and kicked the sh*t out of me.. I was totally helpless, no way could I get out or throw anything at him and I certainly would have done.
Next day I went in, prepared with the schooling whip. He chose an encore and backed me into the corner again. He soon learnt his lesson. He never did it again. It did him absolutely no harm but he did learn his place.