Naughty horse when tacked up..

Hormonal Filly

Hormonal Filly

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(I'm addicted to asking for advice on here, I love it! Sorry!)
Okay so my mare was kind of rescued, her first owner said she "hated her" and was taking her to meat man when she was 'rescued' and I have bought her back into work over last year! :)
Her first owner had her since she was 3, and said she use to hate the saddle/girth (MIND it was never fitted, and 18" long, when her back can only take 16") and would go crazy. So she'd stop tacking her up (let her get away with it) and re-turn her out. She would also hate being touched, so when being brushed she'd try and bite and again, be turned out and get away with it. Basically if she was naughty, she'd be turned back out and left!

Well, she's a darling.. although she's is generally a typical mare.. and one of the highest in her herd (out with 14+ mares) She is loads better.. however being can be naughty sometimes, even though her saddle is perfectly fitted (only a few weeks ago!) she is still bitey when tacked up and will try and mess about! (She is perfect with her bridle, opens her mouth!)
I can mount on her fine (She will stand still at the mount block, happily) and once I'm on her she's a diamond, and i can do my girth up.
Maybe she realises, "damn i can't get away with it now?"

All physio's and vets have said its a 'pain related' and 'behaviour issue' which is just stuck in her mind!
Would you think this is right? and has anyone got a horse like this?

Many thanks!
 
Tantrums&Tiaras said:
I think you need to get a vet/chiropractor out and maybe listen to your horse more.
The red flags for me:
1) long term ill fitted tack
2) pain responses when tacked up
3) negative change in behaviour when tacked.

A horse does not have a conscious mind like humans, they do not plan. They react to stimuli be it applied or imposed, so i would hazard a guess your mare needs looking over for soreness and then compassionately retrained to trust humans again. Bolshie behaviour can be due to fright (the whole fight or flight reaction).
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Vet and chiropractor have checked her back, and said she is not sore, or has any muscle problems. Had exact the same 'sore points' as a normal regular horse. She is brilliant to handle, can be handled by kids.
Both have said she's once had pain, and has learnt how to get around it .. Surely horses know what gets them out of something?
 
sounds very much like my boy he is cold backed once the girth is tighten it puts more presser on his back saddle perfect and everything check had muscle spasm for ill fitted saddle before I got corrected that he freaks when I got on an tightened his girth he went mad remembered the pain I lunged for a few week then got on an straight back off then started to walk round an got off an so on till he realised it was all ok an wasn't going to hurt him hope this helps x
 
My lovely natured horses would hide in the corner of his stable when he saw the saddle. Bless him he was developing ringbone on both front legs. He was sore but not showing lame. He tried to work and the only real indicator at first was hiding from the saddle. I hope your pony has a simpler reason and that you and the vet/ostio can sort it.
 
kayclover said:
sounds very much like my boy he is cold backed once the girth is tighten it puts more presser on his back saddle perfect and everything check had muscle spasm for ill fitted saddle before I got corrected that he freaks when I got on an tightened his girth he went mad remembered the pain I lunged for a few week then got on an straight back off then started to walk round an got off an so on till he realised it was all ok an wasn't going to hurt him hope this helps x
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Many thanks! I've just bought a nice new English leather saddle (currently in a old horrible wintec, but it does fit) hopefully it may help! I may invest in pressure type girth, she's very sensitive.. so maybe i need sheepskin, and everything kind on her!
 
Does she get worse around the time she's in use?

My mare was like this and it turned out to be a combination of things from the saddle she had been ridden in by her previous owner for a long time which had caused extensive bruising and pain due to the ill fit through to arthritis in one hock which caused her to hold herself incorrectly to alleviate the pain.

I've only had her a few months but in that time we've managed to get her as pain free as it's possible to be for her, reduce her weight by over 100kgs (she was obese), had a new saddle fitted and she's had extensive physiotherapy.

Girthiness wise she's great now compared to even going to fasten it seeing her flex and then snatch around to bite, brushing her anywhere near her belly caused the same reaction. In fact she didn't like to be brushed anywhere at all. Putting a rug on her was a challenge she would whip around to bite, move away etc. Sometimes she would be difficult to catch.

All these problems have all but gone. She comes to meet us at the field gate, can put her rugs on/off without having to fasten/tie her up, same with things like fly repellent. Brushing her belly - no problems at all. Girthing up no problems.

The one problem we have remaining however is the mounting block. She will swing her bum away from the block as if to prevent us mounting. I believe that this is a remembered pain issue but I'm not pushing it with her just in case it's not and it's actually her way of telling us all is not quite right still. I have what we affectionately call a "mounting tower" which my OH made for me. It's got castors and we can wheel it up to her and in effect pen her in between it and a fence to prevent the bum swinging out if we wanted. It's steps with a handrail. As she's 16.2 and I'm only 5'2" it comes in very useful and it's what I used to work with her when we first got her for getting her accustomed to her new saddle and also rebacking her.

I'm not using that with her just yet as I want to get to a position with her that she's so comfortable that the bum doesn't swing away. Basically I'm trying to give her the time she needs.

I think you need to consider taking a very slow approach with your lady. With mine I found a way around her mounting block issues (using the tower) to get on her without any stress. I believe she allowed us to do that because she is such a gentle natured horse. Looking back however had I known her better at the time I may have read more into the fact that she swung away from the mounting block and perhaps picked up that despite checking things out she was actually in some pain. I had put it down to learned behaviour.

The reason I ask about being worse around her season is that my mare was like that and I started this year feeding her a very small amount (level teaspoon daily) of agnus castus (which is often found in stressy mare/riggy geldings type supplements) a day and this has made a massive difference to her. She's not stressy, moody or sensitive around her season anymore.

This may be affecting your girl but my advice would be to try to listen to and work out what it is she's trying to tell you.

As far as the actual girthing up goes I'd take it a step at a time - tighten one hole either side until it's as tight as you want it to be and watch her reaction. Also try to avoid any girth that is elasticated one side and not the other.
 
If she was in ill fitting tack for a long time then she is probably anticipating pain rather than experiencing it. She has got so used to saddle=pain that she doesn't understand that the pain has now gone away and she need not fear it. The only thing you can do is be patient, and keep checking to make sure the pain doesn't come back. Good luck! It will be worth it.
 
I'm not saying that there's definitely nothing wrong with her, but my mare always lifts a hind leg up when I tighten her girth. Fitted saddle, humane girth & I'm not exactly rough with her - it's just a habit. It's not even a threat, just lifts it up & puts it back down, never aims at me. I would still check that she's not still suffering from the ill-fitting saddle she had before, but if you can't find a problem it may just be a case of persevering to change the habit.
 
This screams ulcers or another digestive issue! When my horse came he would hide in the corner when I tacked him up & even threw himself on the floor a few times when girthed.. Once the ulcers were treated it stopped.. I had different vets, chiros, physios etc & no one picked this up except for 1 last try with a different vet. I'm not a believer of 'cold backed' horses.. I think it's just a term for horses that have a problem which no one knows what it is. I do think horses can anticipate pain but I've found that once the pain is truly gone the horse soon forgets about it. A huge percentage of horses are thought to have gut/ulcer issues due to the way we keep them.
 
Totally agree with this ^^^^ but equally think it can often be a conclusion we jump to too quickly girthiness = ulcers. Certainly in my case it was one of my first thoughts but proved wrong. Putting that aside I think diet or poor diet management can account for an awful lot of things which get out down to other causes. Often whets going on on the outside is a reflection of problems on the inside. Whatever the case girthiness should never be ignored or simply put down to "naughtiness" IMHO.
 
When she's watching something else, at a pleasure ride or at a show I can tack her up with her ears forward and no response ATALL to the girth or saddle, I take her our regularly so this is 1/2 times a week she goes places.
Would that also be ulcers, or would it be constant?
 
Yes - they can take a long time to get over being in discomfort even when it's fixed.

It pays to have the chiro in for regular visits for a few months until the muscles have recovered their balance, girthyness can be a sign of lower neck problems.

Also may pay to have her checked for ulcers - though if she has been turned out and done nothing then it's probably not them unless she has been hard fed.

Tie her up short so she can't bite, then take your time girthing up - fit loosely then gradually tighten a hole at a time, with a leg stretch and a walk in hand before finally doing up the girth.
 
Why is it that on here the first thing that everyone thinks is something major?
Not that the mare has been ridden in ill-fitting tack which will have cause her pain at some point, probably meaning that she's had sores and girth galls, or that someone might have over tightened her girth and it pinched/hurt her. Horses remember pain and know how to avoid it. And anyway, the amount of mares that I know that are funny with their girths pure and simply because they're mareish! Also, the horse's instinct is to protect their bellies so a lot of them will.
Sorry, it just annoys me that everyone is ready to jump to conclusions about things that are probably nothing!:o
 
Emsarr said:
Why is it that on here the first thing that everyone thinks is something major?
Not that the mare has been ridden in ill-fitting tack which will have cause her pain at some point, probably meaning that she's had sores and girth galls, or that someone might have over tightened her girth and it pinched/hurt her. Horses remember pain and know how to avoid it. And anyway, the amount of mares that I know that are funny with their girths pure and simply because they're mareish! Also, the horse's instinct is to protect their bellies so a lot of them will.
Sorry, it just annoys me that everyone is ready to jump to conclusions about things that are probably nothing!:o
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Some of the people on here that give replies are very experienced horse people and know what they are talking about.

The majority of horses deal well with the ill fitting tack and the pinched girth or the odd girth gall but when a horses neck is out of alignment it makes the muscles that run under the belly very tender. A horse that doesn't like to be touched is also often a horse with a back/neck problem. If you have ever had your back/neck out of alignment you will know that any touch to the muscles around the injury is very painful.

Mares on the whole are no more touchy than geldings - I say this from experience of owning several mares and also being responsible for the care oa a good many others at stud.
 
Tnavas said:
Some of the people on here that give replies are very experienced horse people and know what they are talking about.

The majority of horses deal well with the ill fitting tack and the pinched girth or the odd girth gall but when a horses neck is out of alignment it makes the muscles that run under the belly very tender. A horse that doesn't like to be touched is also often a horse with a back/neck problem. If you have ever had your back/neck out of alignment you will know that any touch to the muscles around the injury is very painful.

Mares on the whole are no more touchy than geldings - I say this from experience of owning several mares and also being responsible for the care oa a good many others at stud.
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I'm not disputing the fact that clearly there is a lot of knowledgeable people on here but that's everyone's reaction to a horse that isn't well, next it will be a thread "I think my horse's leg fell off - advice?" and that will be caused by ulcers :rolleyes:

I've obviously been unlucky with a lot of the mares I've dealt with and lucky with the geldings then!
 
Emsarr said:
I'm not disputing the fact that clearly there is a lot of knowledgeable people on here but that's everyone's reaction to a horse that isn't well, next it will be a thread "I think my horse's leg fell off - advice?" and that will be caused by ulcers :rolleyes:

I've obviously been unlucky with a lot of the mares I've dealt with and lucky with the geldings then!
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Ulcers are renowned for causing aggressive behaviour when tacked up. The majority of hard fed horses have ulcers unless receiving adequate fibre in their diet - and if racehorses you can all but guarantee they will have stomach ulcers in varying degrees.
 
Aimeetess said:
When she's watching something else, at a pleasure ride or at a show I can tack her up with her ears forward and no response ATALL to the girth or saddle, I take her our regularly so this is 1/2 times a week she goes places.
Would that also be ulcers, or would it be constant?
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Nope it isn't always constant.. I've had a horse that would work beautifully out hacking in straight lines.. bit of adrenalin etc.. put him in a school & ask him to bed to the right.. no chance!! He's the one with the gut problems...and this one has NEVER been girthy at all.

I'm not saying your horse definately has this.. I'm not a vet but its a possibility. Different horses react differently to things.. they don't all display the same behaviour to problems such as ulcers. One of mine was girthy & had ulcers, the other one is very girthy & has kissing spine, the pony has digestive problems which are being treated at the moment & he's never been girthy so all depends..
 
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