Naughty mare again this morning. Need hugs & any advice? *long*

arwenplusone

arwenplusone

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I've posted about my mare a few times now but to cut a long story short she has started being a right madam. Had her about 7 months now and for the first four she was an angel. (she's only 5 but we were jumping up to 1m and winning classes). Howver, she's started to go into bronc mode - started when we were at a show and I couldn't get her in the ring. Seemed a one off but has got more and more frequent.

But now she is doing it at home.
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This morning she did it as soon as I got on. She was so angry with it too. I hit her pretty hard twice and sent her on but this didin't do the trick and she was on concrete so I sort of half fell/half got off.
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She had her back checked about 4 months ago and was fine - could they have missed something? (If a horse bronks as soon as I get on then I would think 'back problem') However, I am really inclinded to think it is behavioural. My instructor said so too but has now said there's noithing more she can do to help me - horse is out of her league (!)

To handle she is a lovely sweet mare - doesn't put a foot wrong. She argues a bit on the lunge but normally I can send her on no problem - some days she goes beautifully for me under the saddle.

This morning was horrible and I was in tears. I don't want to ride her and have to admit I can't do this on my own. Feeling very disheartened.
Anyone experienced this - could it be her back (getting it checked again on Monday)? Or something else? I have tried Oestress etc - Up till now I thought she was testing me but now I just don't know.
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Thanks for listening - just needed to get it off my chest.
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Oh - and before you say it I do not want to sell her. I will send her for some training (and me) as I do actually believe she is my 'horse in a million' so will find a way to work through it...
 
Maybe she feels she's been pushed too hard and this is her way of saying she needs a bit of breathing room? How much schooling/training does she do?

As a bit of light relief for my youngester, I did some loose-schooling. Meant she could have a play but also reinforced the fact that I was boss and could instruct her without touching her. Seemed to give her a whole new level of respect for me while giving her a bit of a break at the same time.

And of course you don't want to sell her! I'm sure with a change of tactics you can sort her out.
 
Have you had the saddle checked? Obivously this is something that should be checked ASAP. Id even consider changing it for a different type to see if that helped. Id get her back checked this time by someone different just in case the last person missed something. One of my horses came to me very cold backed, it was hell finding a saddle - anything which was slightly too long in the seat (he was short backed) sent him into bronco mode as soon as my butt touched the saddle! For 3 years he would arch his back up and occassionally have a little bronc until I put him on NAF Superflex, I dont know how on earth it helped but after a month he stopped being weird in his back and has been normal since! It's possibly worth a try if you're realy at your witts end.

It does sound like something has gone array for her to behave so well for the first few months and now almost be unrideable! If you're not happy to ride her then Id definately send her away for training immediately as it'll only get worse if you're either scared or don't ride her as much. Or at least get a different trainer who does feel they can help you.

If it is behavioural, I would try to make riding as much fun as possible. I'd stop any pressure and just go out hacking with friends or something to see if that helped.
 
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Maybe she feels she's been pushed too hard and this is her way of saying she needs a bit of breathing room? How much schooling/training does she do?


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Yes this was my first reaction.

How much 'fun' does she have???
 
I agree with OrangeEmpire..it sounds as if you have put her under a bit of pressure jumping her to 1m and winning classes as a five year old...perhaps she just needs some time off...
Who did you buy her from? Could she go back there for a bit of schooling..?
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I know how you feel. My horse is going for tests today cos she's had all the back checks/teeth checks/re-hab and she's still not a happy horse. As long as you suspect there could be a physical problem you really need to keep trying to make absolutely sure you have looked everywhere for it. Just wondered though has her turnout been reduced drastically recently with the bad weather cos this can really affect a horse's behaviour. I'm sure you'll work through it, consider it a challenge and keep in mind how pleased you'll be when she finally proves you right and shows everyone she's a horse in a million.
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OrangeEmpire/Shilasdair/AmyMay - Good point but she has quite a lot of fun at the mo tbh.
I haven't competed her since September and we only jump once a week - if that (sometimes I jump her off the lunge and she really enjoys that too). Lately we have been hacking out (just boxing up and going to new places for a trot round) so I have taken the pressure off completely. I only ride her for 20mins at at time anyway. 2 x a week that is hacking (but maybe up to an hour) then she is lunged and/or schooled another two days a week.

I would love to loose school her but she jumps out of the arena!

I haven't yet spoken to a vet but I will do this week - perhaps needs ovaries scanning - though I would expect that to show in her general behaviour/not just ridden.

She has 14 hr day turn out pretty much so it can't be that.
Perhaps I should turn her away for a few weeks but I don't want to let the issue fester.... (with me or her).
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Tempi - I left a message for Andrew but think we keep missing each other - however he's miles away from us so might need someone a bit closer - thanks again for your help. x
 
Sounds like another view might well help then. She certainly sounds as if she's given lots of fun time, and had the pressure taken off.

Has she ever been turned away after being broken in??
 
Well at least that rules out one possible cause anyway!

I think in that case you are right to be investigating physical causes.

Any chance it could be her feed? are you still feeding her at the levels you were over the summer when she was in competition mode? My TB has a barley intollerance which makes him unrecognisable - turns from gentleman to raging with the faintest whiff!

Other than that, perhaps she needs more discipline - I don't mean being harsh on her, just laying down some rules - I used to trot my TB for miles on epic 2hr hacks. Helped him get his head straight.

Good luck - I'm sure you can get it sorted.
 
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Any chance it could be her feed?

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Good point - also is she on any suppliments, some can send them a little loopy...
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OrangeEmpire/Shilasdair/AmyMay - Good point but she has quite a lot of fun at the mo tbh.
<font color="blue"> Oh, can't be that then...your OP didn't say how often... </font>
<font color="blue">The only other things I can think of are some physical problem like a saddle not fitting (sometimes they get broader between 5 and 7yrs so it may pinch? Or perhaps a pulled muscle..? I presume you get her teeth done...and haven't changed the bit or anything?
Perhaps she's just coming out of her last season...my mare is a bit weird in her first and last seasons of the year (late Nov and early March respectively)
Hope you get her sorted out...don't worry too much....IME most youngsters have a 'teenage phase' where they'd rather be drinking with their mates than working
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Deep breath.
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Horses are not static (no more than people) - they grow and change and go through phases for all sorts of reasons, usually a little more complicated than one simple cause and effect cycle. And they are all individuals, reacting differently to the same stimuli, sometimes differently at different times.

I think of "pounds of pressure" on the horse. Each request/situation/stimulus/distraction etc. is a certain amount of pressure on the horse. Some pressure is needed for optimum performance, too much will make the horse "blow" - react too strongly or inapproprriately. EVERYTHING feeds into this loop - feed, turnout, fitness, tack fit, general health, discomfort, teeth, social relationships, management practices blah blah blah. And every horse has a differing ability to cope, which can be affected by training and conditioning.

All of this is a long winded way of saying what you are going through is not abnormal - everyone gets stuck now and then. This horse is "testing" you but how and why exactly is impossible to tell over the internet. She may only be testing your ability to decipher what she's saying!

As suggested I would really recommend getting someone out to assess the horse, preferably someone with young/"problem" horse experience (not that she is necessarily a problem, just that such people make their living assessing horses and thinking outside the box for solutions) rather than a strict "discipline specific" competition trainer although that's a generalisation.

I wouldn't send her away without having someone come to you first, in part because I think anyone worth their salt would want to see the whole picture and offer you solutions which hopefully mesh with any limitations/requirements/concerns you might have.

Have you thought very seriously about all the potential factors? When I was much younger, I worked with a horse one that was bucking it's person off regularly. The horse was a bit "humpy" but rode through it fine and there was never a real problem when I was there, although the owner still had bad days when I wasn't there. Since I didn't then know what questions to ask it took a month before she finally let me know that on some days she rode in her dressage saddle, which I never used because it was too small for me . . .! I felt like a complete idiot but looking back I can see how we missed it. The "dressage" days and the one right after were always the bad days.

I'm sure your situation is not nearly so obvious but I have learned over the years it's sometimes hard to see the tree for the forest with horses! Some times part of the key to the solution is so obvious it takes someone from the outside - someone used to looking for keys to locked doors - to see it.

But in the mean time PLEASE stay safe! I saw someone get on a difficult horse the other day on concrete and all I could think about were the million ways it could go wrong! It's one thing to take considered risks, it's quite another to ignore that little voice that keeps you safe!

Have you tried, in the short term, a brief longe before you ride? It's not a solution but it can help if tension is part of the issue. I'd still go with getting someone out but that might see you through until you can get that done.
 
My mare went thru a similar stage when she was 6 - I turned her away for two weeks then brought her back to work slowly and she was ok. I think part of the problem with her was she had hurt her back in the field and it caused her some pain but when the back person came out it was better. Because I had ridden her (before I realised) and it caused her pain she was eitther rebelling or thinking it was going to hurt her again. Either way the fortnight she had to chill did the job.
 
Hugs

I would brave it and take her cross country. If she does not buck I would say that the sj issues are behavioural and its probably to do with her doing a bit much and being a bit stale (in honesty that is what is sounds like to me)

If it does turn out that she is behaved on the xc course I would limit my jumping for the considerable future - at least three months - to xc course and loose schooling, and maybe some hunting.

At 5 this will only be beneficial to her - and you will teach her to enjoy her jumping.

Then re introduce her to jumping slowly - in lessons only and dont over do it.

You dont have to school over showjumps - and her jump wont go anywhere.

Good luck. x
 
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OrangeEmpire/Shilasdair/AmyMay - Good point but she has quite a lot of fun at the mo tbh.
I haven't competed her since September and we only jump once a week - if that (sometimes I jump her off the lunge and she really enjoys that too). Lately we have been hacking out (just boxing up and going to new places for a trot round) so I have taken the pressure off completely. I only ride her for 20mins at at time anyway. 2 x a week that is hacking (but maybe up to an hour) then she is lunged and/or schooled another two days a week.



I would love to loose school her but she jumps out of the arena!

I haven't yet spoken to a vet but I will do this week - perhaps needs ovaries scanning - though I would expect that to show in her general behaviour/not just ridden.

She has 14 hr day turn out pretty much so it can't be that.
Perhaps I should turn her away for a few weeks but I don't want to let the issue fester.... (with me or her).
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Tempi - I left a message for Andrew but think we keep missing each other - however he's miles away from us so might need someone a bit closer - thanks again for your help. x

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<font color="blue"> </font> If you are only riding for 20 mins then she sounds fresh and could be bored...make her work, but make it fun - she could still be stale with this! <font color="blue"> </font> <font color="blue"> </font>
 
Ah - thanks guys for all your help. I will keep on trying to rule out the physiological things first as you say - could be her back etc. McTimoney lady due on 17th so not too long to wait but I do need to get an expert to come and see her in the flesh to see what they think. Feed - she is on a minimum - alfalfa, oats(about a handful) and a balancer and the only supplement is Oestress - this is what she has been on (minus the Oestress)since I had her.

She doesn't just misbehave when jumping (infact maybe less so)- it is flat work and hacking.

Cruiser - thanks for a long and well thought out reply - everything you said makes perfect sense!

Just need to get to the bottom of it really!

Tempi - that would be lovely, you are so kind - thanks x
 
I would maybe stop with the oats. I feed them to my lazy cob to give him a bit of fire. And they turn him into an excitable chap- which I love! But might be firing her up the wrong way!
 
I'd try taking out the Alfa as well and switch to unmollassed chaff, fibre nuts and tons of hay. I think Alfa A makes my girl more sharp.

The fact that she's trying to buck you off before you're even on makes me think cold back. That's a hard one as it's not just the cold that will make her 'twingey'.

I'd be inclined to turn her away for a few weeks as she's still very young and at this time of year it's difficult to cope with a young fresh horse.

I know it's hard because you want to work through it and the worry would churn me up inside, but I know that if you were me, I'd be crapping myself.

Good luck
 
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