Naughty Pony rolling with Child Rider on Board

[Louisajw]

Help needed !
We have recently took on a loan of a 5 year old 12.2 h pony for my 2 girls aged 8 and 6 ( both tall girls ).
Trial ride went really well , Pony had no issues with children on his back but has never had a young rider of their age- he has been ridden by a 16 year old who he responds well too but did have a very small 12 year old rider who he was even less cooperative with. Now a month in he has issues with rolling eldest child off when on their own and not on Lunge . ( Youngest is being kept on lunge for now as she cant handle his bouncy canter ) He even did it the other day when she was doing some in hand work in the paddock - just plonked his bum down and refused to move ! He quickly moved as soon as my husband came near .He seems to be more cheeky with the kids and gave the eldest one a good nip on the tummy the other day too but then he is patient when they are grooming etc ! Luckily , owner is is very good and also a qualified riding instructor who is on hand every time we go. We are hoping this may be a work in progress - he doesnt buck or bolt with them as I think he may be too lazy for that - but really want to get them going. Luckily eldest finds it quite comical when he does it but its most definately not a laughing matter ! Any tips would be very much appreciated !

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Sounds like he is testing boundaries and seeing what his new little riders are made of. I got put on a horse that "rolled with rider on" on a hack round Windsor Great Park a few years ago. I asked where it was he did it and I made sure I was in a good forward trot at that point and kept his mind occupied, he didn't even try!

Are there any warning signs? Could she be given a schooling whip and give him a good tap on the bottom and send him forward when he looks like he might do it? The problem sounds like he got away with it once and has learned it's a great way of getting out of work for a bit. After he does it does your daughter get back on straight away and carry on?

I'd definitely get a few lessons with an instructor.

 

[Louisajw]

Nope , he did do a bit of scraping the floor but now just seems to roll when he is the furthest away from instructor. She happily gets back on but the other day he quickly attempted to go down again but got a good crack off the whip. The whip or kicking doesnt seem to be having any effect for her at all.

Thought working on ground manners with her taking him round paddock would help but he will try it on then also at times ( trying to nip and being a bit bolshy , lying down )

Instructor is with us now for all riding sessions so fingers crossed going back to basics may help.

 

[maya2008]

I too have young children. If not mine, (and I do have the experience to sort this, plus a plucky young rider at hand), I wouldn’t touch this pony with a barge pole. It needs sorting properly, every time it rolls and does not have that behaviour corrected appropriately, it is learning to do it again. It is obviously not being corrected appropriately by the instructor as it is still doing it. For all you know its saddle doesn’t fit or its teeth hurt or...

It is worth bearing in mind that BHS exams, at least as far as Stage 3 (which is all most instructors are trained to) do NOT train anyone how to TRAIN a young horse (or any horse)! They teach them how to maintain the training of an established horse.

Additionally, this pony is FIVE years old. Teenage behaviour galore. I have a five year old pony. For this year, I am riding her. My son can have her back when she turns six!

 

[Louisajw]

I too have young children. If not mine, (and I do have the experience to sort this, plus a plucky young rider at hand), I wouldn’t touch this pony with a barge pole. It needs sorting properly, every time it rolls and does not have that behaviour corrected appropriately, it is learning to do it again. It is obviously not being corrected appropriately by the instructor as it is still doing it. For all you know its saddle doesn’t fit or its teeth hurt or...

It is worth bearing in mind that BHS exams, at least as far as Stage 3 (which is all most instructors are trained to) do NOT train anyone how to TRAIN a young horse (or any horse)! They teach them how to maintain the training of an established horse.

Additionally, this pony is FIVE years old. Teenage behaviour galore. I have a five year old pony. For this year, I am riding her. My son can have her back when she turns six!

Saddle and teeth have been checked and doesnt seem to be a problem, vets checked him over etc - The instructor is super experienced and very tough- sort of been on ponies since she was a baby - her family yard, and she is also mortified but he seems to be as stubborn as they come . He is actually more responsive to 6 year old than 8 year old -who is way more experienced. They have a very small adult riding him for now once a week too (9 stone weight limit )

They are both staying on the lunge for now as he seems to be perfect in that aspect and on lead. Kids love him (and me ) and he is a character but i completely get your point .Just didnt know if we could very slowly get past it somehow!

 

[Orangehorse]

Sadly, some ponies can very quickly learn unpleasant habits. Back to that question of temperament again. A sly nip, a good way to get out of work by rolling - maybe he just doesn't like being ridden and has worked out a way to get out of it.

 

[windand rain]

Sounds like a lead rein pony that doesnt want to come off it with kids that cannot instill confidence in him, so he is trying out various ways to rid himself of the child he feels a lack of confidence in. It also sounds like he can be bullied into behaving which might be the problem. He needs to want to work with the kids it needs to be fun and confidence inspiring does he hack out with them

 

[Louisajw]

No not as yet but maybe that would help? I think your right , he is a big softie with me , very responsive . Will try out some different methods to lighten the mood maybe.

 

[Equi]

He is very young and probably far too clever for his own good. You said he was really only used to an older and wiser rider and at his age that’s probably what he still needs. A 5yo doesn’t know enough to teach young riders in my opinion unless they are also being ridden and taught by someone else (Who has more strength and riding knowledge) at the same time. I think he needs to go back to school because it’s not going to teach your kids anything right now.

 

[misst]

Another who thinks a 5yo with 2 young children (even plucky good riders at that age are lightweight and not strong physically), who has discovered he can do as pleases. I would be looking for an older tried and tested loan pony for the kids. He is also used to more weight on his back and a stronger leg when he will know he cannot get away with this.
Ponies are clever and quick and not always kind especially when younger. I hope the children don't start to loose confidence or enjoyment as this would be a pity.

 

[misst]

Just re read that and don't want to sound as if he is a "bad" pony. More that he will be a great pony for an older confident child and that provided he is not in pain, is just doing what ponies that age do.

 

[Louisajw]

He is very young and probably far too clever for his own good. You said he was really only used to an older and wiser rider and at his age that’s probably what he still needs. A 5yo doesn’t know enough to teach young riders in my opinion unless they are also being ridden and taught by someone else (Who has more strength and riding knowledge) at the same time. I think he needs to go back to school because it’s not going to teach your kids anything right now.

Yes he is now also as of last week being rode by the 72 year old very experienced yard owner at least once a week.

 

[honetpot]

I hate to say it, but the chances of an adult rider stopping this are virtually zero. We had a perfect four year old, ridden by both my daughters, who were about seven and nine, PC, hunted etc. By the age of eight he had learned some riders he could just say no, and do his own thing, not with my children but actually older children who thought they could ride. A young rider was no match for his naughtiness, the only blessing was he wasn't out to kill them, he just expected a certain level of competence.
The pony will know exactly who is riding him and act accordingly, I would look for another.

 

[Gloi]

Make sure he's had a chance to have a roll fairly recently before you tack him up so they aren't riding when he's really ready for a roll. After that you just need yourself and the riders ready to tell him off when he starts to think about it.

 

[windand rain]

Might help too if the kids could learn to recognize when it's likely to happen and stop before it starts.

 

[Shay]

This type of learnd evasion is all but impossible to correct. As others have said, he has learned that this gets him out of work and the adult on the ground is not quick enough to stop it. Some ponies are saints on the lead rein and total horrors off it. And they always seem to know which riders they can try it on with and which they can't which is what makes it so difficult to correct. An adult can correct it. A stronger competant child can corrrect it. Put soemone les esperienced on him - and back the behaviour comes again. At least for now he is only sitting down. If he actually really goes to roll he risks trapping the child beneath him. He will also write off your saddle if he rolls in it!

 

[Wishfilly]

I agree that the chances of an adult rider being able to sort this for a child is unfortunately pretty minimal. In the past when I was pretty lightweight, I often used to school children's ponies, but a teen/small adult is much stronger than an 8yo child, and applies the aids in completely different places, so it often doesn't translate.

Some ponies unfortunately never really make the transition between lead rein and first ridden, and may always need a competent rider off the lead rein.

Are you able to find something older which has a track record of doing the job you want? Ultimately this is not your pony, so I'd be wary of putting too much time/effort into sorting the behaviour.