Naughty with farrier- advice

I_A_P

I_A_P

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 March 2005
Messages
5,869
Visit site
I have asked in SY but not had a huge number of replies so thought i would try in here also.

Just wondered if anyone has any ideas. I have had my boy for over 3 years now. He has always been a bit tricky with the farrier. Generally it is when it is with his front feet and he either goes to pull them down or goes up in front and is generally a bit difficult. Mup until last year he was given sedalin which was not always fail safe especially when farrier is early/late and takes time to act.

Last year he had a problem as was feeling the hard ground and had to have wedges, gel pads in for a while until he was better. For this we had him sedated by the vet as he said he needed to make sure he was kept still to do this (fine). Anyway he is now 100% on his feet and pads etc are all off. His feet look much better now as well as do not look so flat.

Problem I have is our farrier is now saying he won't do I'm unless sedated but it's costing me £150 at least every 5 weeks to get his feet done. Does anyone have any alternatives to getting vets to sedate them or any idea of how I could make him a bit easier?

If anyone has any similar experiences at all would be helpful as wonder if it is some underlying problem rather than just naughtyness.
 
The problem is that your horse is not at one with the farrier. They sound like they have some relationship issues so I would suggest letting your farrier play the seven games with him, I am sure he would be happy to oblige if you provide the carrot stick and long white rope.If he dosen't want to bond by using the seven games maybe a go at join up could help this troubled pair.


:p


Seriously I don't really know, can you nose twitch him for the front feet? £150 is a bit expensive :eek: Do you hold him? I know that some horses on the yard are absolute buggers if you hold them but as good as gold when tied up?!
 
Might be worth trying to get some domoseden gel. It is the same sedation as the vets use, so much better than sedalin paste. It goes under the tongue. It is about £25 if your vet gives you a prescription. May be worth a go.
 
I feel your pain. My late mare was a right cow bag for the farrier I used to absolutly dread his visits. I had her for nearly 5 years and she never really got better but I did manage it as best I can. She died of digestive problems and looking back I wonder if maybe it used to hurt her to hold her feet up?! She also had very thin walls so maybe she found shoeing uncomfortable or maybe she just hated it I don't know.

What about getting two feet done one week and two the next? I used to do this in the early days with my mare, makes it a bit easier. She was also a bit better being done in the stable as nowhere for her to try to run off too. I also always used to feed her while being shod. It wasn't ideal but I used to make her up a massive bucket feed of Hifi with apples and carrotts hidden in it. She was only allowed it when the afrrier was touching her, otherwise I put it round the corner. I never tied her up either, I held her.

I also would ride her before the farrier came, a good hours work so she was nice and tired. I also used sedaline sometimes which did help take the edge off. If she did start freaking out with the farrier then I would ask him to stop and I would walk her about for a minute or two before he carried on again, if the farrier put pressure on her or shouted at her she would get worse.

I used to get into the routine of riding her, giving her 3ml of sedaline and then leaving her for an hour quietly so it could work. I'd make up her chaff and treats feed then the farrier would come.and I would hold her inside or somewhere quiet outside with the feed while he shod her. It was a right royal pain in the arse but she was normally sane enough after this routine that we could get the 4 shoes on without too much problem. I had a nice quiet farrier as well. I know your not meant to feed them while they are sedated but it was only mild oral sedation and it was chaff, if I didnt feed her she was liable to snap out of the sedation.

Hope that helps. My current horse now is a saint, it is so wonderful!! My mum horse was a bit ansty when we first got him as he was frightened of being hot shod and hes a nervous type anyway. We changed farrier and hes fine with the new one. He found the old one a bit dominant and scary so thats another thing to consider, your horse may be better with another farrier.
 
My mare is an absolute bitch with the blacksmith, always has, always will , however with a twitch she is absolutely fine, I know not everyone agrees with them but I don't want anyone to get hurt, and we have .... So now as soon as he starts hammering the twitch comes out and happy days :)
 
only_ - i started reading the first part of the post seriously lol.

He was twitched when i first had him but farrier said it was not 'good to do it everytime' and suggested sedalin. Sedalin was then used up until last year when he got injured and he insisted he was sedated properly so that he could be kept still in order to put in gel pads and wedges. He was not great on the sedalin but as it takes time to set in if he turned up early which happened often it doesnt help!

When i say at least £150 that includes his normal shoeing cost plus vet trip, plus sedation etc. He has to be done every five weeks as his feet need regular attention.

sare_bare - thanks have not heard of that. Going to phone the vets anyway to see if they have any other suggestions.

Miss L Toe - not really an option. I dont know what you mean by doing it myself either?

Firewell- i have tried holding him/ leaving him alone - doesnt sem to make much difference. He will stand there fine - then he suddenly tries to stamp his foot down or goes up in front just to wriggle away. He doesnt rear or barge around just hops out of the way. He is actually better with his back feet - more the fronts. The feeding may be an idea but of course farrier will have to agree to not have him sedated first.
Have tried wearing him out before the farrier as well but doesnt make much difference. He is not normally a stressy type of horse; although he is very aware of things going on around him and alert. I understand it may be a trial and error way of working out whats best for him as long as farrier is happy with this.

My farrier is quiet with him but am wondering if it is worth someone else's opinion. If it that his feet are still sore (even though he seems fine in his work) then maybe i can shoe him differently to improve this - i just don't know!
 
It's got to be worth trying another farrier just to see maybe?
My mare was worst on her fronts as well, she used to pull back and pull away or do half rears. I would see her starting to lean back and then she would lift her front end up and snatch her foot away normally when he was nailing which is obviously the worst part! She was ok to have her shoes taken off and her foot shaped, it was the nailing on of the new shoe and the finishing off that she was bad at.

I would try a new farrier, someone who is very calm and quiet and who doesnt give off any sort of angry or inpatient vibes! Then maybe play around with feed and sedaline and see if you can get into a routine that helps?!
 
Also maybe the farrier is nailing a bit close to the white line? You never know... I always thought with my mare that she could *feel* being shod. I had two farriers for her and she was better with second one, both were super quiet but she liked the 2nd one better for some reason. Not sure what else to suggest!!
 
I have considered changing since the problem last year- his sole was prolapsed and nothing had been mentioned to me about his feet not looking great or doing something to rectify them.

His heels are off the floor more now than they ever have been and I just think 'why has this only just been improved?'

Firewell- that is exactly what he does!!! If he is any kind of pain then i obviously want to rectify it but he needs to be shod in the meantime so will have to continue on and find some routine. It is becoming such a stress every 5 weeks at the moment and i know mum dreads the day as much as I do.

Thank you everyone. Keep the replies coming in if you have any other ideas.

Anyone recommend someone on the Norfolk/Suffolk border (around the Beccles areas) ?
 
Thanks Firewell - i just don't know enough about farriery to know what is good or not and am very paranoid about his feet now. When he had the issue last year I tried to ask the vets advice but he didnt really say either way what his opinion was.
 
Hello have you tried any bute before he is shod? This would rule out pain?

My 5 yr old ex-racer - RIP - was horrendous with the farrier (he also had other major behavioural issues) he too needed pads which take longer and were a nightmare. It turned out that his issues were pain related - he had a bone scan and the hot spots were phenomenal - lame on all 4 feet, arthritis of the spine, spavins etc etc! I am not suggesting that your horse has anything wrong but bute would rule out pain and then you know it is not an issue?

On the other hand my Welsh Sec A was also bad with the farrier - his was fear - he was never really touched before i brought him - it took 3 years but slowly, slowly he has come good with the farrier - he is just trimmed but through a v good, kind and patient farrier and a bucket of hi-fi (light!!!) he is now excellent. Again he was generally scared of life though and even picking out his feet was an issue for months - i think he thought that if all 4 were not on the ground he was not able to run from danger!!

Let us know how you get on!
 
Twigben - thanks. We did try it once but can not really remember how he was, again this is something else i have thought of doing but will need farrier to be ok with him not being sedated.

I am going to be working on picking his feet up/tapping them/ stretching his front legs forward etc just to try and get him used to this being done more and see if he improves at all.

Last year was the first year he needed pads- he had never had any foot problems at all before then. I am wondering if they had always been a little sore but then got progressivly worse due to shoeing and therefore last year flared up. Really hard to know.
 
I am with Twigben - have you tried bute before he is shod? It could well be a pain issue.

Please if you do try another farrier warn them about your horse. My hubby is a farrier and he cannot afford to risk his living with a really difficult horse. If you as the owner struggles with their horses feet then the farrier will obviously too. It never ceases to amaze me that owners expect a farrier to work miracles. I am not saying you are doing this, but many owners do. Good luck.
 
Thanks. IF i get someone else to look at him it will be with explaining things over the phone first and probably ask them to have a look rather than actually getting them to do him. I should also say that he is generally ok to do, as in I can pick his feet up and pick out - occasionally he may try to pull the leg away but is not dangerous with me! He is mainly naughty at the point of putting the new shoes on. My mum (who is there when his feet are done) says that although saying to the farrier we can't go on with getting the vet out every time due to cost he doesnt really have any other advice.

I will see if I can get some photos of his feet.

I am happier with his feet now than I have been in the past and my instructor (who's advice I trust) said they are ok. I am just not 100% trustworthy anymore due to problems last year :(I know he is never going to have amazing feet due to his type and don't expect miracles I just don't want further problems.
 
Last edited:
sam-b said:
My mare is an absolute bitch with the blacksmith, always has, always will , however with a twitch she is absolutely fine, I know not everyone agrees with them but I don't want anyone to get hurt, and we have .... So now as soon as he starts hammering the twitch comes out and happy days :)
Click to expand...

This is what I do, expect its only for her back feet, as she snatches them back. I discussed it with my farrier and said I wanted to do it as I worry about his safety as although what my mare doesn't isn't that bad if she just catches the wrong place just once.... she is 100% to shoe if I twitch her for her back feet.
 
Could be a balance or confidence issue? I say that as that's exactly how my foals and yearlings behave until they realise it is possible to stand on 3 legs. They are usually always fine with the back ones but then seem to lose balance when the fronts are lifted. Not really sure how to go about solving that except with constant practice as you've already mentioned. Good luck x
 
Our shire x was a nightmare when we first got him due to a combination of being fat, struggling to stand on three legs and the farriers being stroppy with him.

Since changing farrier he had been a different horse. He still isn't a 100% but alot better. They do him in shifts and give him breaks also. Also since he's lost weight he can now stand on three legs. He was kept fat in his last home to keep him quiet!!!!!

Would your horse cope with just front shoes on?? Also make sure it's not pain related as my first horse would rear as he had arthritis in his knees so if farriers picked his feet up too high he'd go up. I found giving him a bute the night before helped this.

Also what's he like to have his feet picked out by you?
 
Also it's the front ones ours was worse with. The bit he still struggles with is when they pull his legs forward and I think this is a balance issue. I find putting him with his bum against a wall and his side against something helps xx
 
Mally is horrible for the farrier, she hates having her clenches tightened (she is also a cow to put hoof oil on, weird sensitive creature!). She kicks, rears off the stand, flattens the farrier, breaks her lead rope and legs it and just generally gets herself in a major state!
She is no different with a haynet or food and has had to be twitched in the past, but I didn't want to always have to do that, as I know horses that have been constantly twitched and are headshy as a result.
The only thing that has worked consistantly for her is me holding her with a Horslyx parked under her nose.
She is SO much better now, although my super patient, lovely, tolerant farrier has obviously helped! :D
Mini Horslyx are a regular part of my grooming kit, they make hoof oiling and studding up do-able!
 
Millie is worse with her front feet, only fractionally now but she used to be really quite difficult for the farrier, particularly with nailing on.

A few things that may be worth trying..

I used to hammer her feet when I picked them out to try and get her used to the sensation.

My farrier nailed on with a different hammer to normal- it was a sort of soft, cloth covered little hammer and was used to stop so much vibration/echo of the banging going through her foot.

Also, if he has a history of being a little sore on his feet, does the farrier take all of the shoes off and then put the new set on or do it one at a time?
My old horse was sore without shoes so my farrier would take off/re-shoe each foot one after the other so Pilfer was never stood balancing on bare hooves- that really helped him.

Writing this has made me think how much I love my farrier- technically he is excellent but also so helpful with any little quirks/niggles they have :)
 
Thanks everyone. Am going to bang his feet (gently) whilst lifting them. He can be slightly awkward at times picking his feet out compared to other horses I have had so extra practise with this is definately happening. Have tried Horslyx as he had an addiction to these at one point lol, still doesn't stop him from pulling back although will give it another try.

Re does he take all shoes off at once- will have to ask mum as iv not been there with farrier recently. They normally do both fronts first I think rather than worry about backs just as he's usually fine with his back feet.

Just got to decide what things to try first! X
 
Leg_end said:
I think it's all in the farrier TBH! Have you tried another one?
Click to expand...

A half decent farrier will take the necessary time . . . be patient . . . help you and your horse out. My farrier comes to our yard to shoe the biggest boy on the yard (an 18hh Cleveland Bay - he's enORmous) . . . farrier shoes him in his box (hoss feels safer there), only does two feet at a time (will come back to do the other two) and takes as long as it takes . . . he is endlessly calm and patient with A (the horse) and while A is still a little twitchy about being shod, he is not much better. No twitch, no sedation . . . just patience.

P

P.S. A previous farrier apparently wacked A with a rasp when he kept snatching his foot away/pratting about . . . A's owner (who is a biiiig bloke) ordered him off the yard there and then . . .
 
Supertrooper- thinking about it I think I do this as a habit. Will make sure I do it though as makes sense.
PolarSkye- thanks. He is not rough with him in any way but that doesn't mean to say someone would be else wouldn't be better
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top