Navicluar - Good Farrier needed

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LMacqueen

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My young (5yr old) horse has been diagnosed via x-ray and nerve blocks with navicular. He was subsequently treated with Tildren and Hyanate (?) and I was told to put wedge shoes on. He became sound very quickly and I continued competing. Subsequently he has gone lame again and more nerve blocks show that the pain is now in the soft tissue. He is off for an MRI on monday but I believe the soft tissue problems are a result of the wedge shoe which has effectively changed his conformation tipping him onto his toes.

After reading loads on the internet I have decided to try the barefoot route so had the shoes taken off last Friday and Ted is now very uncomfortable, I think from heel pain rather than soreness. My farrier has not been any help, just doing as I ask rather then advising/helping and hasnt answered my calls since and the vet thinks the horse should have the heel support from the wedge. Any help/thoughts gratefully received. Does anyone know a good farrier that could help me more in the Herts area.? or have you had a similar experience.?
 
Hi there - I cant help with regard to farrier as I live in suffolk but you could see if any farriers around the newmarket area have experience of this as my farrier worked in Newmarket with TBs and similar experience.

I may or may not be having the same experience as you - I have written numerous posts about my boy who has very bad collapsed heels and went lame. The vet diagnosed naviuclar syndrome following nerve blocks / xrays (pedal bone is horizontal but no damage show to nav bone so could be soft tssue) He has had Tildren and was originally in sole supports which made him worse then heartbars which have aggravated the collapsed heels so he is is now in natural balance with Equilox to raise his heels and get the HPA more correct and the pedal bone better placed - farrier said he probably would feel awkward for a week or so until the tendons and ligaments / pressures become familar to different stresses. Equilox seems very good and farrier says it basically will achieve better results in much shorter time than heart bars.

When vet saw him last week he was sound in straight line so have been advised to start very light hacking to see how he holds up.

Barefoot is a good option for some horses but it depends on foot confirmation and you need a farrier who will look at xrays and work with them. My previous farrier sounded very much like yours so I feel your pain - I do contribute some of my horses problems to his lack of advice / proactiveness....

PM if you want any more details but otherwise have a look at all my other posts....
 
It's a nightmare dealing with these navicular horses, you have my sympathies.

If you have soft tissue damage then (putting shoeing aside) you will need to give time for this to settle, an option you could consider here is shockwave therapy too, plus repeat the tildren.

Regarding farriery, you will find a lot of various opinions, some more vocal than others!!! What I would say is I haven't heard too many people immediately opt for wedges on the navicular horses.

Shoeing wise I would say either eggbars combined with something like equipak, or look to a natural balance type of shoe and try and increase breakover plus support heels.

If you choose to go unshod, this will of course take just as much effort to make the transition, but certainly worth trying if thats what you wish. there are many products available to help sensitive toes make this transition (pads, boots, sole guard etc) but if your horse still isn't happy you may need to consider some sort of alternative shoeing.

I'm afraid I'm not in your area to be able to offer an opinion on which farrier
 
Hiya - thanks for your post. I am based in Rickmansworth.

My farrier is supposed to be very good but I need someone who is going to help me and discuss the problems. The navicular is 'mild' and caught very early and the vet was surpirsed how lame he was after a few months and didnt have an explanation as to why he is now getting soft tissue problems citing an "upright conformation" as a probable cause. Hence why I think tipping the foot with wedges isnt helping in conformation terms. The vets are very good at diagnosing the problem but not at dealing with the real route of the problem.
 
Hi - you have my sympathies - I can only tell you what worked for me.....my horse was diag. with nav. when she was 10. She was pretty much written off to be honest and bought her back from the univ hospital knowing she couldn't be ridden again. The farrier we had at the time put egg bars on her and we kept her with those for about 8 yrs. She was bad for a year or so after diagnosis and I tried loads of different drugs/herbs etc etc, but I don't think it made a lot of difference. I kept her in a yarded area, at the back of the stables, where she could wander around as she wanted and after a year of that started turning her out, still with egg bars on. Rode her regularly after that first year, but only at walk, and always with boots on with the suspensory ligament strap. After 2 years of this she went sound, and I did a little more, but very careful, and only on good surfaces, no concussion and still egg bars and boots. After a couple more years of this I tried without normal shoes but each time I tried she went lame pretty quickly, and stayed lame until the egg bars went back on. This went on for a long time until a few years ago - she has made a good recovery, she is now 28 and has no shoes at all. The odd unsoundness is now due to general old age arthritis and her feet are fine! Didn't think we'd make it this long - good old mother nature came through with a little TLC!
 
QR - My mare has navic and 2yrs down the line I finally found a good vet practice who actually helped. He "prescribed" eggbar wedges for my mare going by the x-rays showing the cyst on her navic bone.

He said 75% of horses improve straight away but the remainder just say no. The wedges alter the foot angle and remove the pressure on DDFT. Thankfully my mare said "yes" and started striding out and tracking up straight away.

Although it did alter her foot balance (for the better) it didn't tip her onto her toes? Her toes were brought right back and the HPA angle was corrected. The vet said she'd need these from 2-3 shoeings (with being shod every 4wks to avoid going long to short etc) then move onto a flat eggbar.

Before I found this practice I did try "barefoot" and used an EPAUK "qualified" trimmer. I will NEVER use anyone other than a farrier on my horse. Lesson learnt but I was desperate. If you are considering unshod then please consider using a farrier.

My mare is unshod just now as her feet got nail sick and doesn't have much horn growth. Thankfully she is field sound but she has thin soles and no amount of "conditioning" has improved this.

If you can't speak to your farrier can you discuss with your vet and have your vet speak to your farrier? Your farrier can't diagnose and should be working with your vet. I had my vet out the first time my mare was being shod with the wedged eggbars so that he could fully explain what should be done. My farrier sounds like yours in that he does as I ask and follows vets instructions but he won't "prescribe" anything as that's not his role.

Hope you get some answers. I know how frustrating "navic" as a diagnosis is!
 
This isn't really an answer to your question, but have you looked at any of Robert Bowker's stuff? He has done a lot of research on navicular horses and is very pro-barefoot. I went to a seminar that he gave a couple of years ago and it all made sense - he is very much of the opinion that it's not just a case of looking at the navicular bone, but looking at the whole support structure of the hoof especially the digital cushion. His stuff on the web might give some useful advice. In support of barefoot trimmers, I have a very good one so I don't think it's fair to tar them all with the same brush. There are some pretty horrendous farriers out there too.
 
Personal opinion... before you go deciding whether to go barefoot or with wedges you need to wait for the MRI results. It is quite likely that the soft tissue damage was present prior to the wedges. Often horses who present with navicular syndrome but only show mild changes on x-rays actually have soft tissue damage. Whilst going barefoot can be beneficial it does completely depend on your horse. A number of horses, especially flat footed soft soled TBs cannot cope without shoes.
If it does turn out to be soft tissue damage then standard treatment is anywhere from six months to eighteen months off work. Foot balance is key so it is important to have a farrier who will communicate with your vet. If your farrier is half way decent don't go discarding him yet. Have you actually asked him what he suggests? It could be possible he is waiting for a definite diagnosis and wants to take advice from your vet. Good luck with the MRI.
 
Thanks to everyone for their replys. My farrier finally called me back today and was actually quite helpful, I think he could hear the worry and panic in my voice. He said to stick with the barefoot but to give it time, he says the horse is not used to the pressure on the frog and will be uncomfortable for a bit. He is going to have a look at the vet report and wants to know what the mri results are. Hopefully I might be able to make some progress.! I am trying Boswellia Serrata as a painkiller and antinflammatory and Ted is off having regular cold spas. He is such a lovely young horse I really hope I can get him right.
 
You really must ask your farrier questions whilst he is with you. So many owners do not want to know, are not interested in what is being done, and I think farriers tend to not offer information unless asked for. You really should also get your farrier and vet to discuss your horse between them.
I agree with not going unshod prior to getting the MRI results back.
 
lmac
you,r problem is typical, first there is no condition called navicular, navicular is a small horizontal bone in the foot. so you,r horse may have navicular desese, this is where the bone is becoming crumbly, degen etc, this is very serious and can not really be cured, but you are more likely to have navicular syndrome, this is where the bone looks ok but there is fluid, inflamation etc in the area. you,r best bet is to remove the shoes, trim the foot with lowish heels[not too low] nice broad flat heels a little above the sole, keep the toe fairly short, trim the bars level with the sole. if this leaves the frog under load, it should be gently trimmed to lower it a little without leaving it tender, all of this is to balance the foot and reduce any harmfull concussion,tugging etc, in other words, to leave him walking flat or a little heel first but more importantly, not toe first, when all this is done, you now have a horse that has been forced to go barefoot for the wrong reason. so he may be tender on top of his other problem.
he should now be protected with one of several methods, imprint stick on shoes, or a rim of vettec superfast with the mid filled with soleguard, even good quality boots, i would recomend the first two options as they will stay in place for a fiew weeks.
 
I'm an advocate of barefoot for navicular as it saved my horse, however it does depend on who's trimming your horse and if there's any kind of conditioning programme going on as well, which is important for healing to take place.

I can see that coming out of wedges places an additional strain on the DDFT and navicular bone, and am not qualified to say how this would affect the success of taking the horse barefoot.

In the short term, I would recommend you get a set of Old Mac boots, possibly all round but at least for the fronts.

http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/P/Old_Macs_G2_Multi_Purpose_Horse_Boots_G2_old_macs-(233).aspx

If your horse is between sizes, go up a size as the important thing is to get a pair of Sole Mates pads, and they are thick. They can be hard to stuff into Old Macs but the weight of the horse will compress them. You will notice an immediate improvement in his comfort level. These are for walking out rather than for turnout or stabling. When the horse is ready, you can ride in boots and pads. They are very useful for the early transition to barefoot.

http://aepsupplies.co.uk/index.cfm?sid=21583&pid=330565
 
Hi Brighmount

Thanks for your post. I have looked at the Boa Boots too and will definitely get a pair if the MRI result conclude that I am ok to keep the horse barefoot. I have currently wrapped his front feet in Perfect Hoof Protection. How long did the transition take for your horse.? Was he footsore when you took the shoes off or suffering from heel pain like I think mine is.? Is she/he in full work now.?
 
She was already on box rest being nearly crippled and having just had an MRI scan. I think this works in your favour if you are going to go barefoot, as you won't force the horse to run before it can walk, your expectations are low and any progress is a bonus. With a horse in shoes and full work, going barefoot often doesn't work out because of the period of down time while the foot conditions to working as nature intended, and horse owners justifiably want to keep their horses in work when nothing is wrong.

She was actually more comfortable than before when the shoes came off. The farrier had put NB shoes on when I wasn't there which had taken her intermittent lameness over the edge, to the point where I was going to have her put out of her misery.

So even before the trim, surprisingly, when the shoes were taken off for MRI, she came back hobbling better than before!

(In answer to your question, yes the pain was in the heel, she had a lesion in the DDFT, but she also had swollen collateral ligaments.)

Then when she was trimmed and went onto the barefoot conditioning programme, it was onwards and upwards, and with boots and pads the improvement in her comfort was amazing and I began to hope she could be saved.

She was turned out after about 6 weeks, we were only waiting for the ground to dry out, and a month or so afterwards was being ridden again, and within a year she was back in full light work. The following two years have also seen steady improvement in her workload and the terrain she can go over without shoes or boots.

I'm interested you applied the Perfect Hoof wraps yourself. My EP uses this method for some horses that have just had their shoes off, it apparently does accelerate growth so there is more to work with at subsequent trims. This wasn't around when my horse had her shoes off for the first time. The boots and pads were the best thing in our case.
 
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