Navicula and barefoot - how to start?

[MargoMare]

Hi everyone, I would really appreciate some help!

I have an ISH mare who I adore called Margo. Shortly after I bought her she went lame and after much tooing and froing she has been diagnosed with palmar heel pain/navicular syndrome. I havent MRI'd her yet as it is one of the options I am thinking about but I dont know if the treatment would differ much either way and Id rather save the money to spend on treatment if I can.

Im looking for some clarity as I have trawled so many posts and sites to decide what is best. here are my options as I see them:

1) MRI to determine exactly where the damage is - is there any real point in this? the issue is bilateral and from what I read the ligament problems or bursa problems will react to steroid injections, bone degeneration or DDFT will not)
2) Continue remedial farriery and try injections. Pads with frog support had worked for around 6 months but are now failing - each week seemingly worse. We could try egg bar or heart bar shoes plus the injections? Vet wants to inject despite having no MRI as they will often help with most of the issues save bone or DDFT issues.
3) Go Barefoot. In my gut this feels like the right way forward and I did speak to Nic at Rockley about 6 months ago but I just cant afford it (on maternity and mare not insured anymore) so if anyone has experience of going barefoot with navicular Id be so grateful for any info on the following (and yes I will buy Nics book!) I would also get a DAEP to trim i think? I totally get the rationale behind the barefoot method - what concerns me is whether I can provide the right environment to make it work. I cannot have a track system as she is at livery although I am sure the owner woudl provide some different footings for her - like time loose on the yard, in the school or on a gravel area?

I know they need lots of exercise over differing terrains and would start off inhand. I have access to a school and miles of off road walking/riding in the woods (or lanes). Id need to get help/a sharer once sound as I can only get to yard twice a week at the moment - although the owner would probably do a couple of sessions a week for me.

- How do I actually start - is it as simple as taking her shoes off and getting the DAEP trimming regularly? what about then walking her over the gravelly bit to her field - do you just crack on, get boots for the transition or avoid those areas to start?
- Should I still get the steroid injections to help relive any inflammation to give her the best start into barefoot? (this makes sense to me?)
- does anyone have a rough schedule of how rehab should go?
- Once sound (ahh my dream) how much exercise do they need and on what terrain - there is no point if I cant maintain this.

Thankyou to anyone still reading - any help is gratefully received as this is a very new area to me but I am totally on board with the logic behind it!

x

 

[stencilface]

Firstly as another on maternity with a rubbish horse, you have my full sympathy! Mine went to rockley January 2016 for 3 months with ddft in both fronts, and having had eggbars for 8 weeks previous that didn't make a difference.

Get the diet right first, so cut out sugar etc and get on a good supplement. Winter is a great time to transition as the ground is soft and the grass isn't crazy full of sugar.

Then just got from there and work within their comfort zone. If you can offer different surfaces in turnout then great but other work is good, little and often is your friend. Depending on your horse you could do in hand walking with the baby in a pushchair or sling? I'll happily work mine with her in the sling but I know him inside out.

I'd walk on the gravel to the field, you may find she's fine on it. Just let her take her time and if it's really bad find another way or boot for that bit.

Mine also has some arthritic issues now, I'm hoping he can be maintained with 2-3 days with exercise a week. One 30 minute + hack a week, once short in hand in walk, and once in the arena on the lunge/long rein for mostly straight line work. That's basically because that's what manageable atm. If I get a job I'm not sure what will be possible!

Hho is a great source of info and support, I've hit the bottom a few times with bf!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Mostly what you need is some smooth tarmac and some time to walk her. I don't have a track or anything fancy. She needs to be comfortable on whatever surface. Do some videos and photos like Rockley do so you can look at them and assess things regularly.

It's hard, flying in the face of experts but it's quite simple to say that horses can fix their own feet given the right situation.

Make sure the diet is right too. If she needs boots to be comfortable get them as well

Good luck.

 

[Puddleduck]

I was in a similar situation with my gelding just under 12 months ago.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?739528-Rockley

I took his shoes off on the 30th November. Started walking in hand on a mix of gravel and smooth concrete building up 5 or 10 minutes every week until we'd gone from 5 minutes daily to an hour. My vet did inject into the coffin joint at the start as we knew from the MRI that there was navicular bursitis as well as a torn DDFT in the right fore. However that was 10 days after the shoes came off and he was already showing signs of being sounder before the injection.
End of March we started ridden walk, three weeks ago he trotted up sound on the lunge at my vets. He hacks 5 miles at walk and trot every weekend on the roads either barefoot or with boots in front and has just started back in the school with the aim of getting out to our first dressage competition in over a year on the 28th October.
It's been tough going, we've hit a few big bumps on the road but it's the best thing I could ever have done for him.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

You're aiming to achieve heel first landing. Treat for thrush (red horse products) and check to see if there are any splits. Get horse on a good supplement ASAP (equimins, pro earth or forage plus), change to a low sugar diet (Agrobs, thunderbrooks, micronised linseed, no alfalfa), buy hoof boots and use them if horse is a bit footy, conservative trimming by a recommended trimmer (no rasping of hoof wall, don't touch frog, don't try and change anything quickly or force a shape) and get horse moving, starting with in-hand walking on smooth Tarmac. Good luck!!

 

[Goldenstar]

TBH I don't think you have anything to lose by going bf .
I have no confidence that this issue which is in the most part caused by shoes can be cured by shoes .
Change the diet now get the horse on a good foot friendly supplement I use the forage plus one .
Get your hands on the feet first book that Nic Barker to give you an overview of what to do it does advocate the feeding of seaweed which we know isn't a great idea now .
After that it's down to you my horses manage to work bf without any complicated tracks etc only one needs restricted grazing. I keep them standing in during the worse times of day during summer .
With Bf you just have to get them moving get some boots you may not need them but I would have them just in case .

 

[Goldenstar]

Ps on MRI if you are going to meet the cost your self you might be better to spend the money on Labour to help you getting the horse moving if it's difficult to find the time .

 

[ycbm]

Buy Nic.s new book Performance Hoof, Performance Horse from Amazon. Ignore the bit about feeding 50 ml of magnesium oxide a day, I feed 15 ml, having reduced from 25 ml and I've seen no change. The rest is great.

You don't need tracks, I've done three rehabs and I have no tracks. But you need movement, with lots of turnout, and walking, walking, walking (in hand until there is a flat or heel first landing) on flat tarmac if possible.

Time wise, one of mine was competing at BE at nine months and he had feet so flat that when his shoes came off his frog was the highest thing, then his sole, then the walls, when you looked at his foot from upside down. The other two were dressage test sound at three months and both those had been lame for a long, long time.

 

[Antw23uk]

TBH I don't think you have anything to lose by going bf .
I have no confidence that this issue which is in the most part caused by shoes can be cured by shoes .

Snap, I will often ask people how they think 'remedial' shoeing will solve an issue which was a massive factor in the horses issue in the first place. Doesnt make sense!

 

[ester]

I don't see what you have to lose by going BF. You have had the usual experience of remedial-- it helps for a bit then it fails.

I totally get the rationale behind the barefoot method - what concerns me is whether I can provide the right environment to make it work. I cannot have a track system as she is at livery although I am sure the owner woudl provide some different footings for her - like time loose on the yard, in the school or on a gravel area?

I did it, at home, on grass and road walking. We did put a small gravel area in but frankly it was a waste of time and money apart from the one day he made himself footsore charging round all night and used it.

I know they need lots of exercise over differing terrains and would start off inhand. I have access to a school and miles of off road walking/riding in the woods (or lanes). Id need to get help/a sharer once sound as I can only get to yard twice a week at the moment - although the owner would probably do a couple of sessions a week for me.

Not lots but sufficient, little and often especially to start, I did daily 5 minutes, pony turned out the rest of the time. If the owner will help you out with that then fab. You will see improvements not doing things every day but it might be slower, and you need to make sure the horse is moving about enough otherwise.

- How do I actually start - is it as simple as taking her shoes off and getting the DAEP trimming regularly? what about then walking her over the gravelly bit to her field - do you just crack on, get boots for the transition or avoid those areas to start?

Take shoes off, do not trim to start, see how she is with the gravelly bit, being aware that she might get worse in a few weeks when the feet start to wake up. we had very flat soles so we had boots pretty quickly and needed to wear them for all work after the 6week point for a few months, but was fine to get over the stoney yard to the field, just wouldn't have wanted to do 200 m of that.

- Should I still get the steroid injections to help relive any inflammation to give her the best start into barefoot? (this makes sense to me?)

Up to you, I knew they had worked for mine just not for long, I thought it might give us a head start, trimmer not convinced but it happened before she arrive. It did make him sound and he never seemed to take a lame step after that.

- does anyone have a rough schedule of how rehab should go?

Totally depends, it does require a lot of patience, I took it slow as at 19 I figured we had one shot, Lots and lots of straight line work, waited to canter until autumn when the ground softened. he was dressaging after 7 months.

- Once sound (ahh my dream) how much exercise do they need and on what terrain - there is no point if I cant maintain this.

What you want really, at 24 mine just potters round the block 2/3 times a week and they haven't deteriorated for that from the many many miles he was doing 18 months ago hunting.

Thankyou to anyone still reading - any help is gratefully received as this is a very new area to me but I am totally on board with the logic behind it!

 

[Orangehorse]

Not everyone uses boots, but you can get soft inserts for boots which will mean that the horse is comfortable and, important, the insert/pad is providing the correct support for the foot. The more comfortable, the more willing the horse will be to walk out.

 

[MagicMelon]

Do you feel you need the track system purely to try and help the navicular? If its just because you think you need it to go barefoot successfully I wouldnt agree. I keep mine barefoot (with one being shod only during eventing season) and dont have any special set up whatsoever for any of them. They all live out 24/7 with open stables that are on a hardcore base (so are free draining and stay dry), get ab lib hay due to my lack of much decent grazing, and they get normal hard feed (ie. Id feed what they get even if they were shod). One is retired so he just stays in the field, the other two are ridden and are absolutely fine hacking down the road / competing on grass or surfaces etc. I know lots of barefoot people say you have to have a track type system or pea gravel and they must go on specific feeds etc. but Ive never had any problems not doing any of that.

 

[atlantis]

Do you feel you need the track system purely to try and help the navicular? If its just because you think you need it to go barefoot successfully I wouldnt agree. I keep mine barefoot (with one being shod only during eventing season) and dont have any special set up whatsoever for any of them. They all live out 24/7 with open stables that are on a hardcore base (so are free draining and stay dry), get ab lib hay due to my lack of much decent grazing, and they get normal hard feed (ie. Id feed what they get even if they were shod). One is retired so he just stays in the field, the other two are ridden and are absolutely fine hacking down the road / competing on grass or surfaces etc. I know lots of barefoot people say you have to have a track type system or pea gravel and they must go on specific feeds etc. but Ive never had any problems not doing any of that.

I agree with this. My mare didn't have navicular but I took her barefoot when I bought her. She had horrible contracted feet with nasty thrush. I manage her by lots of walking out on smooth tarmac. We had a brilliant lane that led to all our other hacking, nice and quiet, and we pounded that every day. In hand and then ridden.

I moved her last winter and I found it difficult initially keeping up with enough roadwork to keep her self trimming. The roads are busier and I was struggling with DIY and work. It meant I saw my farrier a bit more that's all, but we also had an almost lami scare that I caught and that woke me up to needing to move.

I have since moved again to where I have more help and she was being a bit silly and spooky on the roads. I'm in a better routine now getting on the road 3 times a week and this seems sufficient.

She dies have a grass track around her paddock on the livery yard to increase her movement. I'm keeping it going as long as I can through autumn and I'll move the fencing about to do so. It's a great way to restrict her grazing I without her bring on a tiny square.

Good luck. If your ysrd owner can help if say go for it.