Navicular bursa problems high heel shoes or not

[jumping_mad]

So my horse has been having lameness issues for a year and half he’s been seen by some of the best vets about and even his mri results have been seen by the top people across the water from me. Now my feeling is that what the vets thought was causing the problem wasn’t the problem and now we have been looking at the nivcular bursa. What I’m wanting to know is people’s experiences with using raised heel bar shoes? He’s currently barefoot as took the shoes off until I speak with the vet about using these shoes. He sound without shoes in no work atm. With normal shoes and taking the clips off or having two clips on the shoes he is sound and will stay sound until he’s an idiot and does something he Shouldn’t while coming back into work. I’m just wanting the good and bad experiences of using this type of shoe with the bursa!

 

[ester]

Is there a reason you need to shoe him? Usually wedges can work well to begin with but do gradually crush the heels so while they can often help short term long term they don't improve hoof function.

 

[jumping_mad]

Is there a reason you need to shoe him? Usually wedges can work well to begin with but do gradually crush the heels so while they can often help short term long term they don't improve hoof function.

Well he was supposed to be for sj but we have had these issues more wondering if he got the shoes would it help him stay sound for longer and means he can work as he not old and is bored of not doing much. I thought of retiring him and maybe just hacking in summer but he’s not exactly a happy hacker type! Or do I leave till summer when he’s more chilled out and try to bring back into work but barefoot and see?!

 

[be positive]

Going barefoot will probably be the best chance for a longer useful life, not just hacking but competing as well, having raised heels may give you a season or two where he seems to be sound but when they stop working the chances are he will be unable to do anything much.
If he were mine I would bring him back into work without shoes with a view to jumping in the summer and see how it goes, it will need commitment but in many ways is less trouble than dealing with shoes, the extra expense involved with remedial shoeing, the risk of them being pulled off and damaging the foot, there is no reason to think he cannot have a useful career and no need to shoe to compete with the amount of all weather facilities that now run all year round.

 

[ycbm]

Take a look at rockleyfarm.blogspot.com for information on both wedges and barefoot.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Never remedial shoeing. Ever. For anything! Quickest way to knackered your horse, no matter what any vet or farrier says (£££££££££££). As per everyone above, look at barefoot and start with reading EVERYTHING on Rockley! No reason why you can't compete in any discipline once you've successfully transitioned to barefoot.

 

[ester]

Well he was supposed to be for sj but we have had these issues more wondering if he got the shoes would it help him stay sound for longer and means he can work as he not old and is bored of not doing much. I thought of retiring him and maybe just hacking in summer but he’s not exactly a happy hacker type! Or do I leave till summer when he’s more chilled out and try to bring back into work but barefoot and see?!

The short answer is no, the shoes are likely to mean he stays sound for less time, the best option for long term soundness is usually to encourage the hooves to heal themselves which they are pretty good at. Which means they then generate good supportive internal structures to prevent further injury.
It depends how wild he is . I'd probably start now, there are advantages to winter with regards to generally softer ground etc, especially given last summer. You might not manage brilliant turns if you SJ on grass but you can SJ a lame one either and plenty of surfaces available these days too.

 

[Puddleduck]

Mine was diagnosed by MRI with navicular bursitis (plus navicular bone deterioration, collateral ligament damage and torn DDFT) in his right fore in October 2016.
My vet was adamant that wedged heel shoes were not the route to go as they transfer the pressure off the DDFT but cause other soft tissue issues.
We knew my horse had blocked sound at the coffin joint so opted to medicate the bursa by injecting into the coffin joint to help the inflammation. Also took shoes off and rehabbed him barefoot. He was back under saddle in March 2017.
He’s back in full work now, moves better than ever and should hopefully be back out competing in the next month or so.

 

[ycbm]

Never remedial shoeing. Ever. For anything! Quickest way to knackered your horse, no matter what any vet or farrier says (£££££££££££). As per everyone above, look at barefoot and start with reading EVERYTHING on Rockley! No reason why you can't compete in any discipline once you've successfully transitioned to barefoot.

There are foot bone fractures which should always be shod. There are showing classes that you can't enter without shoes on. There are diseases which make it impossible to keep a horse comfortable with no shoes on. And there are many people who simply can't provide what their own particular horses needs in order to stay comfortably barefoot.

I am a barefoot advocate, but you go too far.

 

[Pinkvboots]

If his sound without shoes try working him barefoot, why try and fix what isn't broke! I have a horse with slight changes in the navicular bone and he had inflammation in the bursa, it was medicated with osphos and steroid and the vet wanted remedial shoes on, I took his shoes off and let him rest in the field and he was sound in 3 months.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

There are foot bone fractures which should always be shod. There are showing classes that you can't enter without shoes on. There are diseases which make it impossible to keep a horse comfortable with no shoes on. And there are many people who simply can't provide what their own particular horses needs in order to stay comfortably barefoot.

I am a barefoot advocate, but you go too far.

So you keep saying......

Entering a showing class has nothing to do with whether a horse can/can't/should/shouldn't be barefoot and is an entirely different matter.

Name a disease where shoes are critical?

I have previously also acknowledged that some people don't have the time/facilities/support/knowledge to go barefoot but again, that isn't the same as the horse being able to go bf.

 

[horsimous]

I was advised to and had wedge shoes put on a horse (we didn't get to the bottom of what was wrong) and at the time the horse looked so uncomfortable in those shoes so I felt rather cruel and I do believe it made the issue worse. In hindsight I do wish I had just had them removed to see if that helped. However, every case is different. What doesn't work for one, may for another.

 

[Leo Walker]

So you keep saying......

Entering a showing class has nothing to do with whether a horse can/can't/should/shouldn't be barefoot and is an entirely different matter.

Name a disease where shoes are critical?

I have previously also acknowledged that some people don't have the time/facilities/support/knowledge to go barefoot but again, that isn't the same as the horse being able to go bf.

Entering a showing class has everything to do with it if that's your horses job.

I always wonder if you realise just how much you put people off even considering barefoot as I'm sure that's not your aim!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Name a disease where shoes are critical?

PPID horses can be footy out of shoes.
I take it that you would would prefer them to hobble on barefoot?

 

[ycbm]

[QUOTE="PoppyAnderson. So you keep saying......

Entering a showing class has nothing to do with whether a horse can/can't/should/shouldn't be barefoot and is an entirely different matter.

You said there was no competition that a barefoot horse could not do. I was correcting your error.

Name a disease where shoes are critical?

Pedal bone fracture. Fractures require immobilisation to mend. Cushings. Many Cushings horses are impossible to keep without pain without shoes on. You've been told this before.

I have previously also acknowledged that some people don't have the time/facilities/support/knowledge to go barefoot but again, that isn't the same as the horse being able to go bf.


If the horse/owner combination can't, and many horses are very difficult and it's no reflection on the owner, what is the point of making people with horses and situations where it won't work feel bad by banging on that all horses can do it? . Even if it was true, which it isn't. .

 

[PoppyAnderson]

PPID horses can be footy out of shoes.
I take it that you would would prefer them to hobble on barefoot?

Of course not. That's what boots and pads are for.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Entering a showing class has everything to do with it if that's your horses job.

I always wonder if you realise just how much you put people off even considering barefoot as I'm sure that's not your aim!

Everyone has a different delivery style. You may not like mine but you don't get to police how I chose to deliver my message. I might be a bit blunt but I'll live with your disapproval.

 

[ester]

Boots and pads come with their own issues if you need to use them 24/7 to keep a horse comfortable. I’d happily use a glue on option if my horse was struggling because of metabolic issues.

Frankly you manage to me off barefoot 🤣 and funnily enough I’m pretty keen . It’s not the bluntness but the message itself.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Of course not. That's what boots and pads are for.

Not suitable for 24/7 turnout. A max of 12 hours a day, which I've been doing successfully on a non PPID barefoot rehab horse but which I wouldn't care to do permanently, as I don't think it's fair on the horse.

 

[whiteflower]

I've had a horse with a badly fractured side bone. He was barefoot but had to be shod to stabilise the fracture so it could heal, too much movement of the structures of the foot would have reduced healing and possibly caused permenant lameness. We shod, it healed, we removed shoes .

No hoof boot would have been able to reduce movement of the foot structures in that way.

I am pro bare foot and most of mine are but I think there is a place for shoes for certain horses and certain situations. I certainly wouldnt be ramming down people's throats that barefoot is the only answer, it just makes people think it's a group of narrow minded naturalists when in actual fact there is now days some very sound evidence behind its benefits. Hey ho 🙄

ETA - op in your situation if you are looking at long term soundness and the possibility of being able to compete I would investigate removing the shoes and providing optimum conditions for the hoof structure to improve and support what's going on inside. I have a horse that had 'navicular' (ddft in the main) that is now sound with this approach.

 

[ycbm]

Of course not. That's what boots and pads are for.

There are very few horses which would be safe to have in boots 24/7, and some Cushings horses would need that as they also have to be kept on dry lot or scalped surfaces for their condition, which also causes them to grow very weak feet.

How much do you actually KNOW about barefoot Poppy? I'm sorry to say that you sound like the worst kind of evangelist, who's seen the Rockley blog and thinks that's the end of the story. Not many people have a kilometer of circular track system, built with shale from their own quarry, total control over the production of their own wild moorland meadow forage and unlimited quiet flat tarmac roads and moorland tracks of various surfaces to play with. In the Rockley environment, Cushings aside, barefoot is a ride in the park.


Can you tell us your own experience of converting horses that other people have failed to get barefoot?

 

[PoppyAnderson]

It makes me laugh that several of you on here shout me down but then go back to the op and say, barefoot is probably your best option.

I owe none of you an explanation and will no longer engage. The op can chose whether to investigate bf further or go down a different route. Entirely up to them. I'm more than happy to answer any questions they may have or elaborate further if they require.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Laugh away with your closed mind and scorn for vets and farriers, PA.

In many or most rehab cases, going barefoot is the preferable option, and IMHO likely to be so for the OPs horse.. The go ahead thinker, with their horses' welfare put firmly above their own pride, will keep re-evaluating and considering other options, which may at times include shoes.

 

[ester]

We just think it’s worth mentioning that not everyone who finds barefoot helpful is as closed minded as you seem to be PA. it’s possible to be pro barefoot and pragmatic, not sure why that makes you laugh as a concept.

While you might not owe anyone an explanation it would be nice if you would back up your claims as to why barefoot would be better for all the instances that people have said shoes may be necessary.

 

[Pinkvboots]

It makes me laugh that several of you on here shout me down but then go back to the op and say, barefoot is probably your best option.

I owe none of you an explanation and will no longer engage. The op can chose whether to investigate bf further or go down a different route. Entirely up to them. I'm more than happy to answer any questions they may have or elaborate further if they require.

Yes for certain conditions it is the best option but not for everything, you tend to be very against any shoes full stop not all horses can wear boots and pads and they are not always suitable for long term use.

I have 1 barefoot horse and one with fronts I am very open minded with it and look at the horse in front of me.

 

[jumping_mad]

I've had a horse with a badly fractured side bone. He was barefoot but had to be shod to stabilise the fracture so it could heal, too much movement of the structures of the foot would have reduced healing and possibly caused permenant lameness. We shod, it healed, we removed shoes .

No hoof boot would have been able to reduce movement of the foot structures in that way.

I am pro bare foot and most of mine are but I think there is a place for shoes for certain horses and certain situations. I certainly wouldnt be ramming down people's throats that barefoot is the only answer, it just makes people think it's a group of narrow minded naturalists when in actual fact there is now days some very sound evidence behind its benefits. Hey ho 🙄

ETA - op in your situation if you are looking at long term soundness and the possibility of being able to compete I would investigate removing the shoes and providing optimum conditions for the hoof structure to improve and support what's going on inside. I have a horse that had 'navicular' (ddft in the main) that is now sound with this approach.

Thank you have taken shoes off and didn’t t know whether to try the other shoes! Really I was being tight as didn’t want to pay for another set of normal shoes when he is off atm again. He was barefoot all summer and done really well and was shod before coming back into work but will try and eventually bring him back into work barefoot and see🙂

 

[ester]

Good luck there’s fair few experienced people on here now if you have further questions
In order of importance.
Diet (low sugar/starch, no iron balancer)
Exercise (if you can depending on wildness ) slow road walking is great for hoof development you just need to make sure you don’t do too much before they are ready, if in doubt less is more.
Trim, last on the list, less is more to start with, avoid removal of sole or frog material.

My own went bare when lame at 19 with negative palmar angles and not under run heels. He worked for the next 5 years including hunting. He always had rather flat soles which improved with work but did mean that I did need to boot him for roadwork for the first few months. Then the more he did the better they got! Growth usually increases to match wear - even with loran of road work in full work I was trimming every 2/3 weeks as he had a funky wear pattern if left.
They look a bit less good now as he’s been retired the last 6 months other than the odd trip out on long reins.

 

[Orangehorse]

Hind feet usually adapt more quickly and more easily than front feet, because they are working harder, pushing off every step and probably less weight. Give it a go OP.

I knew a horse that maxed out its £5,000 vets fees insurance with remedial shoeing, was as lame at the end as at the start. Vet advised PTS. Owner, in 2 stages, shoeings, had wedges removed, sent the horse to a barefoot remedial person who put him in boots all round and took him being led for hacks. In a few weeks he was sound and is still alive and working 10 years on. He does have very very shallow feet and needs boots for work.

 

[sbloom]

I'm a massive barefoot advocate but prgamatism is occasionally needed. Mark Johnson is a fascinating farrier to follow on Facebook, he's 95%+ barefoot and is quite evangelical, very educational on FB and in the farriery community, yet is very open minded in seeking solutions with composites, glue ons, all sorts of new developments for the very small number of horses who really can't go barefoot for whatever reason (horse, environment, owner/ride).

 

[jumping_mad]

Thanks everyone he’s been barefoot before at different times and does well he has such good feet apart from being a bit flat they are strong he doesn’t really notice when you take shoes off after a week or two he walks over stones and everything and doesn’t care I just haven’t tried bringing him back into barefoot