Navicular diagnosis, positive stories please!

[Jim bob]

Positive story.
I tried different shoes and fillers etc. Though he is a tb. With tb feet. Bought pads and boots and took the shoes off. 2 years later having chance to grow a decent hoof. He is sound. We hack, school, compete at showing and low leves dressage and the odd jump

 

[Michen]

With my navicular one I was told his toes would break and he would collapse back on his heels if the shoes came off. pic on the left is after the remedial shoes came off and the one on the right is a few months later. Upon X-ray his navicular had totally retreated as hoof angles changed. I have no issues with him on any surface apart from very sharp stones (where I boot up). and his lameness never came back. If I had kept shoeing him remedially I think he would been crippled permanently. I think you can hit a stage with remedial shoes where they start causing more problems than they fix. View attachment 76992

Paddi can you remind me if you trimmed. I’m happy with the new angle coming down on Bears hooves and they are no where near the ones on the left. His toe has broken off somewhat but I’m at that in between stage where I can’t decide whether to trim or not. Last time he went very lame and I believe it’s because the back of the hoof wasn’t ready to weight bear.

My vet is keen to leave but he hasn’t seen him for 3 weeks.

op sorry to derail. For what it’s worth whatever you decide to do you need to truly believe in, and whether shoes or barefoot works for you in the long run neither will be an easy road so choose the method you can most get behind. You can always take the shoes off again. Or put them on again. Best of luck.

My main dude goes in and out of shoes. I’ve never managed to get him able to
Work on all surfaces without boots. I don’t like boots in the winter grip wise where I hack. So there’s a compromise. He’s not a metabolic, he’s always been fed a barefoot diet but he’s just never been rock crunching. So it doesn’t work for all but I truly believe in giving his feet a break wherever I can.

 

[paddi22]

Paddi can you remind me if you trimmed.

yep I got a great new farrier and she would rebalance hoof. I hacked a lot on roads, so they naturally wore down themselves a lot, she would just make sure they were the right balance really, was only minimal stuff

 

[Michen]

yep I got a great new farrier and she would rebalance hoof. I hacked a lot on roads, so they naturally wore down themselves a lot, she would just make sure they were the right balance really, was only minimal stuff

Ok thanks. Bear is just hanging out in the field but due to come back in 3 weeks or so. I might wait until then and see how much he can wear naturally..

 

[ITPersonnage]

Yes, but without the sarcastic comment at the end would have been nice.

I promise I wasn't being sarcastic, I put "remedial" in quotes because they were no remedy for my girl. I'm sorry if you thought I was being snarky but I would urge you to think again before you discount barefoot, for us it was the answer.

people aren't being purposely obtuse or antagonising. They/we are desperately trying to help.

Rest of post also spot on IMO.

 

[ycbm]

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to write that and explain in detail your experience with navicular.

I cannot stress how much that I hear what people are saying but, right now, I wish I'd never started the thread.

Your problem is that success stories in shoes for a proper return to work are few and far between because, well, because it doesn't work that often. And barefoot rehabs usually do.
.

 

[HelenBack]

I know a few people (myself included) who have had horses with navicular type problems unfortunately. A couple of them have had success with remedial shoeing in wedges and have managed to keep their horses going for several years. Most of them struggled with remedial shoeing and various other medical treatments for a good while with the horse either not improving or getting worse before they gave up and tried taking the shoes off. I think all of the horses then improved although not all returned to full soundness, and a couple of them have ended up retired but are happy in the field.

I think there are lots of people with real experience of barefoot rehab on here but of the people I know who have been through this I would say most of us lowered our expectations of what our horses would be required to do and this was probably what contributed to our "success". I used to jump and event my horse but as soon as he went lame I set my goal as getting him back to being a happy hacker and no more. We've achieved that but it has been a bumpy road and he needs boots and pads to be comfortable as his issue is more on the hard ground. I might pop a tiny log when we're out and about but I'll never jump him properly again. Other people I know will do light schooling and hacking but I don't know anybody who competes at a high level for instance. Whether our horses would return to a higher level of work if they were with somebody else with more experience in this area I don't know. I will say though that the two I knew who had success with shoeing did also pretty much stick to hacking from then on.

I tried Osphos with my horse but I'm not sure it made much difference. Some of the people I know reckon Tildren made a massive difference. It's a controversial choice and whether you would use it or not depends on what your horse's issues are specifically but I think if I were going to try something again that would probably be what I'd go for.

I think there's nothing wrong with following your vet's advice and trying the remedial shoeing if that's what you're more comfortable with but maybe put a time limit on it and perhaps just do a bit of research into other options if you don't seem to be getting anywhere. I knew enough people in real life and had done enough reading that I already knew taking the shoes off would be my preferred option but the vet wanted to try the shoeing so I went along with it. As it was my horse was absolutely crippled in bar shoes and I subsequently got support for barefoot from a different vet who I have now stuck with it so that made the decision a lot easier really.

 

[My Boys M&D]

My horse was diagnosed with navicular 5 years ago and we keep him barefoot 3/4 of the year with periods of shoeing where needed for eventing.

We tried remedial shoeing and regular steroid injections for 3 years, then 2 years ago took his shoes off and he came sound and hasn't had to have the injections since. My vet is very pro-shoeing so wasn't keen when I said I wanted to try him barefoot so was quite surprised with the result!

I will say though that I tried to event him barefoot and he just didn't take to it. He is actually very sure footed and hardly ever slipped but just never felt comfortable jumping on grass without studs. I gave it a good go, went back to jumping little logs on the ground to build his confidence and he just didn't get on with it. So the last 2 years we've put shoes on for about 4 months during the summer so we can event and he's stayed sound.

He has always had 'perfect' feet from the outside, conformation is good etc so looking at him he wasn't a candidate that screams 'navicular' it was only when we scanned and saw inside we found the problem.

 

[teddy_]

My horse was diagnosed with navicular 5 years ago and we keep him barefoot 3/4 of the year with periods of shoeing where needed for eventing.

We tried remedial shoeing and regular steroid injections for 3 years, then 2 years ago took his shoes off and he came sound and hasn't had to have the injections since. My vet is very pro-shoeing so wasn't keen when I said I wanted to try him barefoot so was quite surprised with the result!

I will say though that I tried to event him barefoot and he just didn't take to it. He is actually very sure footed and hardly ever slipped but just never felt comfortable jumping on grass without studs. I gave it a good go, went back to jumping little logs on the ground to build his confidence and he just didn't get on with it. So the last 2 years we've put shoes on for about 4 months during the summer so we can event and he's stayed sound.

He has always had 'perfect' feet from the outside, conformation is good etc so looking at him he wasn't a candidate that screams 'navicular' it was only when we scanned and saw inside we found the problem.

Thank you.

That's very interesting and I have no doubt adopting a hybrid approach is a sustainable one .

 

[ITPersonnage]

My horse was diagnosed with navicular 5 years ago and we keep him barefoot 3/4 of the year with periods of shoeing where needed for eventing.

We tried remedial shoeing and regular steroid injections for 3 years, then 2 years ago took his shoes off and he came sound and hasn't had to have the injections since. My vet is very pro-shoeing so wasn't keen when I said I wanted to try him barefoot so was quite surprised with the result!

I will say though that I tried to event him barefoot and he just didn't take to it. He is actually very sure footed and hardly ever slipped but just never felt comfortable jumping on grass without studs. I gave it a good go, went back to jumping little logs on the ground to build his confidence and he just didn't get on with it. So the last 2 years we've put shoes on for about 4 months during the summer so we can event and he's stayed sound.

He has always had 'perfect' feet from the outside, conformation is good etc so looking at him he wasn't a candidate that screams 'navicular' it was only when we scanned and saw inside we found the problem.

Really interesting, are the shoes that you use for eventing remedial or "normal" ones?

 

[My Boys M&D]

Really interesting, are the shoes that you use for eventing remedial or "normal" ones?

They are normal shoes but my farrier is meticulous at making sure the toe is trimmed right back, the foot balance is spot on and he sets the shoe quite far back and with long heels to provide as much heel support as possible.

 

[lynz88]

They are normal shoes but my farrier is meticulous at making sure the toe is trimmed right back, the foot balance is spot on and he sets the shoe quite far back and with long heels to provide as much heel support as possible.

My farrier has done this as well while mine has been in shoes. After reading all these stories I am on countdown to take shoes off

 

[sbloom]

There is some evidence that the sort of approach taken by Progressive Equine Services in Oz, and The Equine Documentalist here in the UK (both have websites and great FB pages) can work if you need to shoe. I am very pro barefoot, and would recommend it in a heartbeat, but there is good work being done out there. I don't think I would consider heartbars or eggbars but the approaches outlined by these guys are worth a look.

 

[lynz88]

...resurrecting an older thread.....to the OP....I removed shoes on Sept 8th. My guy was walking ok - some ouchy steps for the first few days but otherwise handling it like a champ. Then the following few days he was sore - would walk but would rather stand still though he was in good spirits. Give him a few days more and he is striding out like I've never seen before and is INCREDIBLY annoying (he tends to get this way when he is feeling good....usually when we have done bute trials). Even the girls on the yard made a comment that to them, he is walking better than he ever has in shoes (which I had been secretly thinking to myself but was afraid to say in case it was me making myself see what I want to see). I would highly recommend seriously considering barefoot rehab. I know he is likely to go backwards in a few weeks' time but honestly so far has been the best decision ever. Have been remembering to take weekly photos and the change has been dramatic.

 

[teddy_]

...resurrecting an older thread.....to the OP....I removed shoes on Sept 8th. My guy was walking ok - some ouchy steps for the first few days but otherwise handling it like a champ. Then the following few days he was sore - would walk but would rather stand still though he was in good spirits. Give him a few days more and he is striding out like I've never seen before and is INCREDIBLY annoying (he tends to get this way when he is feeling good....usually when we have done bute trials). Even the girls on the yard made a comment that to them, he is walking better than he ever has in shoes (which I had been secretly thinking to myself but was afraid to say in case it was me making myself see what I want to see). I would highly recommend seriously considering barefoot rehab. I know he is likely to go backwards in a few weeks' time but honestly so far has been the best decision ever. Have been remembering to take weekly photos and the change has been dramatic.

Thanks, but the horse in question is now deceased. Nothing to do with navicular.

 

[lynz88]

Oh I'm so sorry to hear!

 

[My Boys M&D]

So sorry to hear that Teddy. I remember you said you'd had the horse from a weanling so that must be gutting

 

[BronsonNutter]

I would be really interested in seeing the other side of the argument with people who have navicular and remedial shoeing for a long period of time. I'm so conscious of not trying to get a bias from my own limited number of cases that have come through the yard. are there people with horses where remedial shoeing actually worked for an extended period of time?

Mine was diagnosed with navicular (amongst other foot problems) and was sound and eventing in remedial shoes for three years. I then retired him from eventing as he was feeling harder ground and just wasn't quite 100% - he'd have probably been ok for dressage and show jumping. Last year he injured a tendon in the field and I took his shoes off for a bit, but he couldn't cope without them when being brought back into work due to having really thin soles. He's now back in normal shoes and happy hacking, having fun at the beach etc.

Regarding remedial shoes 'destroying' feet, yes they don't help with heel growth, but with a really good farrier they shouldn't 'destroy' the feet either...

Edit: Really sorry to hear that you've lost him Hope you're holding up ok!