Navicular Diagnosis

BeepaStar

BeepaStar

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My horse has recently been diagnosed with navicular syndrome she is 4/10 bilaterally lame in both front feet. She has very progressed navicular in both front feet. She has:
Bone odema
2 bone chips to the OF navicular bone
Inflammation in the navicular bursa
Tendonitis
A frayed DDFT on her OF
Serve Inflammation in both feet
Both back legs keep filling and she shifts her weight between all 4 feet as she can’t get comfortable.

4 weeks ago she had steroid injections into both navicular bursa and is now 2/10th.
Yesterday she had a Tildren injection
Thinking about going down the barefoot foot.
She requires 6 months field rest.
Is there any hope? Feeling overwhelmed and heart broken.
 
There is always hope, but I'm afraid the only outright barefoot rehab failure I've ever known was due to a bone spur on the navicular. She came sound in rehab but went lame again every time the work was increased. The bone chips are bad news. But you've nothing to lose, the treatment is free, so if you value the horse give it a try.

This forum will help you through the process.

Field rest is not always the answer, she may need gentle movement, starting by walking in hand if you don't have a track system to keep her moving.

Is she landing toe first at the moment?
 
Thanks YCBM.
Tbh I’m don’t know if she is landing toe first. I will ask the vet who diagnosed her.
The vet recommended 6 months field rest and then re MRI her feet. I will enquiry about walking her in hand.
I have looked at Rockley Farm, but they aren’t taking any new horses til next year. There isn’t a track system at the livery Yard.
I’ve looked at a non inflammatory diet as well.
 
You have nothing to lose by taking shoes off and giving her six months in a field - and even if she doesn't come right, it gives you some thinking time without the pressure of endless tests and worry.

My mare wasn't as complicated as yours, but shoes off and time off got her sound enough to bring back into work. We didn't manage for other health reasons, but certainly the front end improved dramatically.
 
I would think it worth trying, but it does sound like you may need to do the best you can to keep her comfortable given how she sounds at the moment as it sounds like she is likely making herself sore in other areas anyway.
 
Theocat said:
You have nothing to lose by taking shoes off and giving her six months in a field - and even if she doesn't come right, it gives you some thinking time without the pressure of endless tests and worry.

My mare wasn't as complicated as yours, but shoes off and time off got her sound enough to bring back into work. We didn't manage for other health reasons, but certainly the front end improved dramatically.
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I agree that there is nothing to lose by giving her 6 months field rest and then re MRI'ing her feet, as long as she is comfortable.
 
ester said:
I would think it worth trying, but it does sound like you may need to do the best you can to keep her comfortable given how she sounds at the moment as it sounds like she is likely making herself sore in other areas anyway.
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She is treated by my lovely Chiro who also does myofascial release. She is sore thro her withers, shoulders and thoracolumbar region. She shifts her weight constantly and her back legs fill 24/7, even after she's been out overnight. I use magnetic boots to help reduce the filling and a massage pad for her back and withers. The treating vet (who she was referred to by my vet) keeps telling me she's not in pain!!! Lost for words about that tbh.
 
Is she shod ATM?

I'm pro barefoot, I took the stance that if mine was retiring they weren't retiring in shoes but I'm just a little cautious given your description currently, that if the steroids/tildren don't seem to make much of a difference that pain management/monitoring might be as important (if we don't believe the vet)
 
Yes she is shod on all 4 feet. I've been looking into barefoot rehab for horses with navicular, but I honestly think she would be crippled without shoes atm, but I'm willing to try for her sake as she is a wonderful mare. I've only had her for 6 months, ironically she flew thro a 5 stage vetting with x-rays, but she did have long toes and low heels, which my farrier has addressed from her first shoeing. He's done a great job with her feet, but obvs the damage was already done prior to me purchasing her. The damage was only visible on the MRI scans when they were done last month and the x-rays still showed nothing.....
 
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My farrier improved our long toes/low heels too from the outside but I just think the internal structures weren't up to it by that point (we did not have a navicular diagnosis, but no MRI).

What is her current hoof quality like? and diet? It would definitely seem like you will need to be set up to boot in case you need to fairly quickly.
I'll throw you an alternative too if you think she might be too sore to cope - partly in response to the current lack of rain, I was very lucky in that the summer I did mine was a wet one. It is tricky when they have a problem, you obviously want to start on it ASAP rather than delaying but it might be the worst year to be trying it mid summer for a while.

http://www.equinefootclinic.co.uk/EFC_Pad.html
 
Barefoot is great, but given the rock hard ground would be worth waiting til winter if she's sore. Before then sort the diet and figure out the pain relief. Wpuld a barefoot trimmer be worth a look, where are you? There are some very good ones that would be able to help you with by management, not just the feet. Sort of like a rockley at home.
 
stencilface said:
Barefoot is great, but given the rock hard ground would be worth waiting til winter if she's sore. Before then sort the diet and figure out the pain relief. Wpuld a barefoot trimmer be worth a look, where are you? There are some very good ones that would be able to help you with by management, not just the feet. Sort of like a rockley at home.
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I have to admit I don't think it would be fair to take her shoes off right now, the ground is cracking where we are it's so hard! I'm based in North West Hampshire, so the main towns around us are Winchester, Andover, Salisbury & Newbury. I'm not adverse to boots, but I think I would prefer to wait until there's been some rain.

I've looked at Thunder brooks products and I'm sort of aware that I should remove iron from the diet and any inflammatory ingredients, but I still haven't done enough research to say I know exactly what I'm doing diet wise! Any help, would be much appreciated :)
 
I think given the extreme we are having, that would be wise. Boots are great, I used them for every walk out we had for 6 months and people do manage to use them for turnout but it is possible to get issues if trying to use them a lot, very quickly, rubbing etc.

Ps I was near Porton until 18 months ago :).

The TB feeds are good, I use agrobs myself as there were a few local stockists near us in wilts and my fusspot eats it. The TB balancer doesn't suit all and they get quite aggressive when this is mentioned (which is also why I personally steer away from them).

Micronised linseed (from charnwoods though lots of resellers) is always a good addition, I could feed a mug a day to my good doer without weight gain.

Good no iron supplements would be pro_hoof from progressive earth, forageplus, equimins adv. complete, equivita.

How well does she do? as that might make a difference to suggestions.
 
Oh you were literally a stone throw away from me!
I’ll have a look at Agrobs, where did you get this from?
She’s not a massive good doer, but she’s not a poor doer either, she sits in between the two, which is good.
I need uk get back to work now, my lunch break has well and truly finished lol!
 
Kilminster always used to keep the agrobs, and the linseed. You can make up a fair amount of calories with the linseed though for instance there are a few agrobs options, the museli I think being the most calorific, I used the aspero which is in the middle (but low for other feeds) when he was in work and had teeth, now soaked wiesencobs for no work, not great teeth. I used to go up to pembroke feeds in allington for linseed too though rang first.

I brought my trimmer with me from somerset too until I started doing him myself so can also let you know about her too if you'd like.
 
Thanks for this, it’s helpful to know Kilminster’s supply Agrob. I might give her a call later and see if I can pick some up at the weekend ��

My farrier is coming today, he’s seen the X-rays and MRIs, so he’s going to work with these to adjust her foot balance and roll back her toes. If you could pm me details of your bare foot trimmer, it would be interesting to have a chat with her. Thx
 
I have a welsh section C with navicular in both front feet. He was far better bare foot than with shoes on. However he is very upright in his feet which didn't help the matter.

It dosnt sound like you have anything to loose but I do agree that the ground is currently very very hard and probably not the best time to take shoes of to give it a try.

My lad survived on steroid injections for about 3 years but then they stopped being effective. He is now on buteless which has brought him sound infront. I only chose buteless as a bute substitute due to it being competition legal. I do believe there are other supplements that may be more effective depending on each animal.
 
Thanks LMsmith, how often did your lad have steroid injections and did he have Tildren?
The Tildren seems to have really helped my mare, but obvs this and the steroids will wear off soon :(
 
BeepaStar said:
Thanks LMsmith, how often did your lad have steroid injections and did he have Tildren?
The Tildren seems to have really helped my mare, but obvs this and the steroids will wear off soon :(
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Unfortunately my lad had steroid injections about every 5 months as they wore of way to quickly (Some horses only need an injection every 12/18 months but franks only lasted 5) :( Truthfully I cant remember which steroid he was on.

Its just a matter of patience and seeing what works best for your mare. Frank competed for a good 3 years before we came up against other issues that then led to him only doing what he could manage here and there.

Dont loose hope just yet :) it took me 18 months to find what worked best for Frankie!
 
Sounds like you are very near me, whose your vet? Would highly recommend a second opinion from Chris Tufnell, coach house. He is RVC president and also extremely good with hoof issues, works closely with Rockley etc.
 
Michen said:
Sounds like you are very near me, whose your vet? Would highly recommend a second opinion from Chris Tufnell, coach house. He is RVC president and also extremely good with hoof issues, works closely with Rockley etc.
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That’s good to know, thank you.
 
This is an awful situation to be in .
If I where in your situation I think I would PTS there’s a lot wrong there and not every horse can be saved .
If you want to try then bf is the way forward given the weather atm I would be looking at remove the hind shoes and see how that goes , then if you remove the fronts buy boots and pads and use them for turnout the vets could give you Danilon to help with the pain at first .
I have seen a navicular horse who was almost immediately happier without shoes if this the case with yours then the way forward might be turnout in boots at first you will have watch for rubs and might have to restrict how long to stop the boots rubbing .
If you have a school the horse might be able to take bf turnout for part of the day on a surface this has worked well for me in the past .
It really depends on what you have where you are keeping the horse .
If it where me I think I would have to take the shoes off now and see what happens even if it means restricting the horse in a stable more than is ideal I think if you have access to a surface that you can use it’s doable .
If it’s impossible without shoes atm then you can always reshoe until the weather breaks .
This Is a situation to be in and I so sorry for you both .
 
Thanks Goldenstar, you're right it's an awful situation to be in and it's not fair on my mare.
To cut a very on long complicated story short, when the results of the MRI were given to me by the treating vet at the Equine Hospital, I asked if she could be put to sleep, obviously I was devastated, but i was putting her first, I don't want her to be in pain and as you rightly say, there is a lot going on. However, the treating vet said she might come back as a light hack..... I said I'd rather let her go as she's only 7. She's insured for loss of use (LOU), so i asked if the vet could write a report to the insurance company stating she's LOU and this is where it all goes so wrong.... I've asked for a second opinion and the top vet & treating vet have said they won't write a LOU report for insurance as i have to do 6 months field rest as she's had tildren and steroid injections (she had these after i found out the vet was opposed to PTS). The insurance company insist that i use the 6k worth of vet fees available for treatment; the policy is a 15 month policy. So the vets and insurance company insist on treating her if i want to claim the loss of use back on her.

So now i have to decide whether to continue with 6 months field rest or cut my losses and PTS and lose the money she's insured for. She cost me a lot of money (well for me), I realise money isn't everything, but that's the point of LOU insurance.

I also want to stress, that I have my mare's best interests at heart and I'm willing to try for her sake, but if I think she's miserable and suffering I will PTS and lose the money.
This is such a HARD decision, so please no negative comments.
 
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