Navicular - farriers please comment!!!

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kezimac

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see other thread - has xrays on it

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=8484761&posted=1#post8484761

hi - my horse was diagnosed with navicular last may - she was put into eggbars, still not quite right so had wedges fitted - she was immediatlely sound. she has been sound over last 9 months - last week went unlevel and is having more xrays on monday.
Alot of people recommend barefoot route as a treatment/best way of managing condition. What i would like to know from farriers is their take on this? Are wedges detrimental long term. My horse has low heels, I have read about the horse landing toe first and that this puts pressure on DDFT. With wedges the shoe lands heel first but the pedal bone lands toe first because of the back of the foot is high.

Please farriers tell me what you think - i can get some pics if that helps.
not sure if i should whip her shoes off - she has thin soles that bruise easily as i did have her barefoot for 9 months when i first had her but she couldnt take any stones. - but as last resort i will do it.
 
I also need to know..........
- need to know are wedges long term bad
- what do you think of barefoot for navicular - and heres the biggy - would i ask my farrier to trim her or a barefoot trimmer!!!! and as a farrier do you trim ridden horse different to a pasture pet? do barefoot trimmers trim different and why dont farriers trim like that
 
James will provide some good info - and for the other barefoot approach have a look at Nic Barker's site - Rockley Farm - she does a lot of work successfully rehabbing navicular and DDFT lesion horses. Been there, seen it first hand for 4 days last year - she does some amazing work. Look for info on Project Dexter.

Kezimac - you can also think about boots and pads - I used these wiht my horses when they were transitioning (I have one with navic type problems) and they're a useful tool in the armoury. I used the 12mm pads - they deform and mould to the foot, but do provide a fair bit of stimulation.
 
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my only problems with boots is keeping them from twisting- i tried epics and another easyboot cant remember which and tried old macs when she was barefoot for 9 months when i first bought her - she went into shoes as vet advice due to bone spavin. She toes in slightly which must twist the boot. that was 3 yr ago so If i could get some new ones that dont twist would have no hesistation going barefoot tbh as would just boot her - from memory she was epic size 4 i think? - something like 145-150mm wide i think fronts cant remember length and may well have changed now - cant measure with shoes on as eggbars and wedges so cant see alot under all that!
 
no she ok behind - its the fronts that twisted - she toes in slightly and this made them twist - they were fitted by barefoot trimmer so were fitted right but still twisted so unless there are any new to market boots which would fit better and stay then not sure about boots.
 
oh and to make it worse i had a disc removed from my spine last year so its not the easiest thing to pick out hooves for me so would need fairly easy and quick boots to fit too!!!!!!!
 
Yep - took me a couple of attempts to find the right boots that didn't twist. Tried the old macs, but found the easy bares fitted better.

My lads are very cooperative and "help" me get boots on by tapping their toes when prompted!
 
i am also very intrested in the replys in this post.

im in the same situation and am thining of taking my mare barefoot
 
Orin - I'm sure you replied when I first posted after and MRI revealed soft tissue damage in Frankie's feet about 18 months ago.
If you are thinking of going barefoot, it sounds like your progress has been no better than mine.

Frankie is currently one of the test subjects on project Dexter at Rockley Farm, have gone into more detail on one of Kezimac's other threads so don't want to repeat myself here but check my previous posts or PM if you want to hear about our experience so far.
 
well. horse went to vets on monday and had further xrays - her right fore the navicular bone has deterioted further and has now developed sidebone. She also has a spur on coffin joint!!!!
She has been reshod (they took shoes off for xray) with her eggbars but without wedges this time. She is still same - unlevel - been told no more dressage just will never be sound enough but should be ok for hacking just bute her (danilon in long term) until she deteriorates to the stage where lame.
.... so now what....... I am really considering removing shoes end of may when due t be reshod and trying her barefoot - now i dont know whether stick with my farrier who is fab but really is traditional farrier who shoes horses not trims for ridden horses. Or Find a trimmer? But dont want someone who done a course and away they go.
So if stick with farrier do i ask him (without trying to offend him!) to leave sole alone so it becomes weight bearing and concaves on its own accord. Or do i leave him to it?

So confused and unsure what to do. She has low heels - if i take her barefoot she will need boots on fronts as crappy thin soles and flat feet. But toes in so will need something that wont twist - any suggestions? (3 yra ago tried easyboot epics and boa and old macs - all no good)
 
Kezimac - this sounds pretty awful for you.

Can I suggest that you look at the options offered by Nic Barker at Rockley Farm. I wonder if your horse might even be a good candidate for Project Dexter?

You can always give her a call and discuss the case with her - it's worth a go.

Better than "until she deteriorates to the stage where lame" anyway. That's a hard thing to hear.
 
it was pretty hard to hear - fair to say i was fairly useless monday evening as was crying so much! -
I was thinking of giving her a call - my insurance only has 3 weeks left on this then she excluded - in fact not alot she then covered for. and they charge £100 a week to rehab them and if it took 2-3 months i am looking at effectively £1200. I love my horse dearly and want to do the right thing by her, but just dont have that money.
I may have to get another horse and am looking at ways to raise money for that too!

I have had her barefoot before so know about transition period, and boots etc. I asked loads of questions of my trimmer before. I am on a livery yard so its difficult to set field up with stones etc, but i can fence my field so she has to move around it more (like a maze rather than a track though )

I know it shouldnt be about cost and i so need to win the lottery, but I am going to have to do this at home with either a trimmer or my farrier. The trimmer i used before sarah Braithwaite doesnt come this far down south anymore though so would need to get another one.
 
The link I provided at the beginning of the thread, about Schoko, proves it is possible to rehab at home. His owners are hard working peeps with little spare cash and they would not have been able to send him away, even if they'd wanted too. They are happy to answer questions from people in the same boat as they were.

Sarah B should be able to recommend a trimmer in your area as she did for me when she stopped covering Lancs, even if you just want to chat about it all with them. Usually a good trimmer gets very excited about taking on a navicular horse (geeks!).
 
UPDATE ******* horse is now sound as a pound! - i personally feel vet was being very dramatic in what he said - Looking back now at xrays again (wasnt thinking straight on day) theres only the slightest difference in 10 months. I took her off the spring grass and she came sound - so do i think was caused by navicular getting worse - no.

So feeling much better now - still considering barefoot long term - but very happy my girlie is back!

I still think she may not be able to do what i want to (novice dressage) and she may be more happy hacking and doing occasional schooling walk/trot tests - giving someone confidence so i am considering loaning her - she dead easy to keep - just avoid hard ground (would with any horse anyway!) and obviously keep off spring grass!
 
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