Navicular Owners! I Need Your Help!!

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Pollyconk

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Hi, I’m doing a big graded project as part of the AQA baccalaureate qualification and really need your help! I’ve chosen to do my project on the use of remedial shoeing for soundness in navicular, laminitis and flat footedness in horses, as I want to be a vet, so I’d really appreciate it if you wouldn’t mind spending 10 minutes filling out this questionnaire so I can include it in my project:


What made you first suspicious of Navicular in your horse?


On diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself?


Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• Long toes? Collapsed heels?....


Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment?

If yes.....
• How was the horse shod?
• How often is he/she re-shod?
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?

If no....
• Did your horse go barefoot?
• How often was he/she trimmed?
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?
• If you have your horse barefoot now but had him shod before, would you please be able to offer an opinion as to whether barefoot or shod has worked better for your horse?




Thank you so much for filling this in – it will help me loads!

And if anyone with sets of x-rays and photos of hooves which have been remedially shod would be able to provide a case study then that would be absolutely amazing

Thanks again! :)
 
We were given a horse with navicular a few years back. He was going for dog food if we didnt take him. 6 months out of shoes, he was sound. Unfortunately he died of unrelated issues, but im fairly sure he would have been able to return to competition.
I think that if your interested in becoming a vet, please be open to barefoot as a valid treatment option. A lot of vets are very firm in their opinions that a navicular horse needs special shoes, and disregard barefoot options. I think its important to keep options open for these horses, whether shod is better for them, or barefoot.
 
pollyconk said:
hi, i’m doing a big graded project as part of the aqa baccalaureate qualification and really need your help! I’ve chosen to do my project on the use of remedial shoeing for soundness in navicular, laminitis and flat footedness in horses, as i want to be a vet, so i’d really appreciate it if you wouldn’t mind spending 10 minutes filling out this questionnaire so i can include it in my project:


What made you first suspicious of navicular in your horse? Intermittent lameness


on diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself? He has mild degeneration of the nav bone in both feet and a small tear in the ddft on one leg.


Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• long toes? Collapsed heels?.... Extreemely flat feet. Typical tb. Low heels, almost no frog.


Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment?

If yes.....
• how was the horse shod? Initially egg bar, then gradiated wedge heart bar shoes, now farrier trying natural balance shoes with support for the heel.
• how often is he/she re-shod? Every 6 weeks
• how long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?
Still lame if not on bute, 1 year after diagnosis :(
if no....
• did your horse go barefoot?
• how often was he/she trimmed?
• how long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?
• if you have your horse barefoot now but had him shod before, would you please be able to offer an opinion as to whether barefoot or shod has worked better for your horse?




Thank you so much for filling this in – it will help me loads!

And if anyone with sets of x-rays and photos of hooves which have been remedially shod would be able to provide a case study then that would be absolutely amazing

thanks again! :)
Click to expand...

see bold type above
 
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My horse has been lame since march...seen top vets in the country.Both at rossdales and RVC
He has changes on his navicular but no damage (as shown on MRI ) vet now presuming its bone bruising...he has had wedge shoes on for 2 weeks now and so far so good, he was terribly lame 6/10.
He had steroid injections to start in his coffin joint.
Really hoping this may help...can give you more details if you are interested.
 
What made you first suspicious of Navicular in your horse?

The fact that his owner gave him away to me :)


On diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself?

He didn't have MRI and unless you have MRI you cannot answer this question. He has changes to his navicular bones but most "navicular type" pain is, when MRI is used, shown to be coming from soft tissue damage and not from the bone. Research by Bob Bowker and Dr Rooney has shown that with cadaver legs in a rig, a toe first landing will create damage to the deep digital flexor tendon first, and subsequently damage the navicular bone. On dissection, most horses with lameness and navicular bone changes will also have damage to the DDFT and the reverse is not the case i.e the bone changes come AFTER.


Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• Long toes? Collapsed heels?....

Long toes. Feet 5.25 inches wide and 6.5 inches long. Feet now 5 inches wide and 5 inches long, and heels half an inch wider than the shoes he arrived in. Thin soles, down to 3.5mm, now thick enough to ride over stony paths without shoes on.

Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment?

Not me but his previous owner. He was shod in bar shoes.

If yes.....
• How was the horse shod?

Bar shoes

• How often is he/she re-shod?

Regularly but I don't know how often.

• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?

He stayed lame.

If no....
• Did your horse go barefoot?

Yes, with me.


• How often was he/she trimmed?

Every day if his feet changed and he needed it. In practice about once a week for 12 weeks, then every 2 weeks and now every four.

• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?

Less than one month. His footfall changed within a couple of weeks to a heel first landing which is the precursor to a resolution of the soft tissue damage. From then on there was continuous improvement except for a few days difficulty caused by mechanical leverage of his weak feet as they changed shape.

• If you have your horse barefoot now but had him shod before, would you please be able to offer an opinion as to whether barefoot or shod has worked better for your horse?

The horse stayed lame in shoes in spite of multiple treatments. Barefoot, he was sound to compete, and almost win, at dressage at less than 11 weeks and at 12 weeks he did a six mile farm ride and jumped with no adverse effects and he has been sound now for four months.

Please note that as well as bar shoes this horse had treatment with adequan, tildren and had hyaluronic acid injected into the navicular bursa of his worse foot, maxing out his insurance. He remained unsound until his shoes were removed. His owner had decided that his quality of life was so poor that she could not justify keeping him alive. Just beforehand, she heard my offer to take on a horse and made a very brave decision to allow me to attempt a barefoot rehab. He is now in a new home where he is working daily as if he had never had a problem.
 
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Pollyconk said:
Hi, I’m doing a big graded project as part of the AQA baccalaureate qualification and really need your help! I’ve chosen to do my project on the use of remedial shoeing for soundness in navicular, laminitis and flat footedness in horses, as I want to be a vet, so I’d really appreciate it if you wouldn’t mind spending 10 minutes filling out this questionnaire so I can include it in my project:


What made you first suspicious of Navicular in your horse?
We weren't suspicious at all, he was lame but the vet had no idea why, initially he thought it was his suspensory ligament. He went to the vet for X Rays and nerve blocks on 05/05/10


On diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself?
he didn't have an MRI so don't know about the supporting structures. he had massive navicular changes and some rotation of his pedal bone


Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• Long toes? Collapsed heels?....
Typical TB feet but good quaility horn. very low/ non existent heels. Totally flat feet


Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment? Absoloutly not!

If yes.....
• How was the horse shod?
• How often is he/she re-shod?
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?

If no....
• Did your horse go barefoot? yes
• How often was he/she trimmed? he has been trimed every 4 weeks since mid May
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition? he also had bad WLD and after soaking his feet, after his first trim, he was sound
• If you have your horse barefoot now but had him shod before, would you please be able to offer an opinion as to whether barefoot or shod has worked better for your horse? the fact that his heels were non existent and he had bad WLD disease that the vet nor the farrier noticed, i would say that he is a lot better off now. He is not totally out if the woods yet, he has a lot of growth to go through yet but the growth is now already half way down his foot and we have got rid of the nail holes. He hacks out in Old macs. The vet gave me a 40% chance of having a sound horse again. Last week he won a riding horse class!! says it all really




Thank you so much for filling this in – it will help me loads!

And if anyone with sets of x-rays and photos of hooves which have been remedially shod would be able to provide a case study then that would be absolutely amazing
I have X rays that you can have of the navicular but obviously not the shoeiing part

Thanks again! :)
Click to expand...

Liz
 
Re reading the above posts, and yes i am biased, it seems that the ones who went the shoeing way are in a much worse state than the barefooters!
 
Right, navicular, my story!
My horse was 12 when he was diagnosed officially.

TB with **** feet, long toes, collapsed heels, he was already shod with bar shoes and rubber pads, every 6 weeks in winter and 5 weeks in summer.

Started to become apparent when he went lame after shoeing, for a week, this happened a couple of times (also he was having the chiropractor to treat him every 3 months, getting more frequent, because I was “losing” him behind, later it was apparent he was compensating for his feet!)

X-Rayed, he had changes to the Navicular bone in both feet, worse in the right (the lame one) tendon damage was present in that foot.
Carried on with his remedial shoeing and tried 3 months on Navilox, this did nothing for him at all! Then tried Cartrophen injections, these helped a lot but he was still lame, he was a competition horse so was not sound enough to compete.

He was a real tricky character, cold backed and sharp, not a plod by any stretch of the imagination, he also had side bone! Due to all these reasons he either had to be in full work or not at all, he was not sound enough for full work so I decided to retire him. I took his shoes off and he is very happy, his feet are a LOT better for being unshod, however he is still not sound!

There were lots of signs, with hindsight, he was a xc machine but had started to stop at drops, VERY unlike him! He was also hammered before I go him and his shoeing was erratic to say the least, I really don’t think this helped him :(
 
What made you first suspicious of Navicular in your horse?
Was lame due to a fractured splint bone on the front left. Vet subscribed box rest. But after box rest he was even lamer even in walk so got a different vet who informed us he was lame on the front right. 3/5ths lame on circle, swelling to the back of the pastern. Refered to clinic for x rays.


On diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself?
Navicular bone itself, after xrays discovered it is chipped.


Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• Long toes? Collapsed heels?....
Flat feet, thin soles

Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment?
Yes as vet recommended
If yes.....
• How was the horse shod?
1st visit; Normal shoes with a gel packed sole on the front right (affected foot). 2nd visit; Normal shoes with plastic sole insert on front right again. 3rd visit; Wedged shoes fitted to both fronts. Got the wedges taken off after 4 weeks as they were causing him ALOT of discomfort in the form of bucking.
• How often is he/she re-shod?
Every 4-5 weeks depending on how they look.
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?
One week later. He was given an injection into the joint and then went for remedial shoeing the following week and was about 1/5 lame. Was sound by the 3rd shoeing session before the wedges went on then went on and off lameness. Was sound a week after they were removed and replaced with normal shoes and concussion pads.

Hope that helps, any questions just ask :D
 
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What made you first suspicious of Navicular in your horse? Short striding in both front feet, bucking/hopping into canter, preferred to canter if he could


On diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself? Damage from supporting structures - the navicular bone looked fine but the damage had been done to rest of foot due to poor foot confirmation. Diagnosis was actually nav syndrome as no damage to bone itself


Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• Long toes? Collapsed heels?.... Collapsed heels / long toes / poor Hoof Pastern axis


Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment?

If yes.....
• How was the horse shod? yes with heart bars
• How often is he/she re-shod? every 5 weeks in heart bars for 20 weeks but with no real improvement then natural balance for another 6 months or so with still no improvement, in fact he got worse
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition? as above

If no....
• Did your horse go barefoot? after remedial shoeing did little to help or made it worse I decided that he had nothing to loose to go barefoot (the collapsed heels/ long toes / HPA was sorted to the best we could by then)
• How often was he/she trimmed? every 6 weeks
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition? we didnt, he never improved but his problems were more than just his feet as he has spent a long time over compensating in his shoulders and back and also had bad hock action. He basically moved like a 40 yr old horse despite being only 12. We had him PTS a few months ago before his pain got too much.
• If you have your horse barefoot now but had him shod before, would you please be able to offer an opinion as to whether barefoot or shod has worked better for your horse?

I have done some research into barefoot and have decided to take this route with my mare because I do believe that a lot of my old boys problems were related to poor farriery (although I am not saying that shoeing itself caused the problems) and felt that it would be more natural for my mare to go barefoot as she has great feet and she doesnt do a lot of work.
 
Pollyconk said:
Hi, I’m doing a big graded project as part of the AQA baccalaureate qualification and really need your help! I’ve chosen to do my project on the use of remedial shoeing for soundness in navicular, laminitis and flat footedness in horses, as I want to be a vet, so I’d really appreciate it if you wouldn’t mind spending 10 minutes filling out this questionnaire so I can include it in my project:


What made you first suspicious of Navicular in your horse?
Very slightly lame (the odd step) on lunge on left rein, was worse on hard surface. Once left fore nerve blocked discovered was also mildly lame right fore.

On diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself?
Hard to be sure as no MRI done. X-rays showed navicular changes but horse also had very bad feet with medial lateral imbalance so may have been lame due to this.


Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• Long toes? Collapsed heels?....

Slightly collapsed heels, more lateral hoof than medial leading to uneven weight bearing surface.


Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment?

If yes.....
• How was the horse shod? With bar shoes and also a medial lift (he thinned the shoes on the outside of the hoof) to compensate for the increased hoof on the outside and give a level surface. Horse previosly landed with outside of foot first and rolled inwards before lifting foot again, she now places her foot flat and lifts it up straight too!
• How often is he/she re-shod? Every 6 weeks, although try to go longer as she doesnt grow a lot of hoof
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition? Once sound 1 week after first remedial shoeing and remains so. She is now returned to eventing and did her 1st PN last week (she is only 5) and is jumping and moving better than ever.

If no....
• Did your horse go barefoot?
• How often was he/she trimmed?
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?
• If you have your horse barefoot now but had him shod before, would you please be able to offer an opinion as to whether barefoot or shod has worked better for your horse?




Thank you so much for filling this in – it will help me loads!

And if anyone with sets of x-rays and photos of hooves which have been remedially shod would be able to provide a case study then that would be absolutely amazing

Thanks again! :)
Click to expand...

I am inclined t0 think my horse's lameness was more to do with the poor farriery before leading to her medial lateral imbalance given how quickly she came sound once shod remedially. There were mild navicular changes on x-ray but may not be significant in this case...however can email you them if you like?
 
What made you first suspicious of Navicular in your horse?
INTERMITTENT LAMENESS

On diagnosis, was the pain associated with the syndrome coming from damage to the supporting structures around the bone or the navicular bone itself?
NAVICULAR BONE ITSELF

Could you please give me some details regarding your horses’ foot conformation?
• Long toes? Collapsed heels?....
'THE PERFECT FOOT' ACCORDING TO MY FARRIER. QUITE BOXY AND UPRIGHT.

Did you use remedial shoeing as a method of treatment?

If yes.....
• How was the horse shod? EGG BAR SHOES
• How often is he/she re-shod?EVERY 6 WEEKS
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?NO IMPROVEMENT. HE HAS HAD BAR SHOES ON FOR OVER A YEAR NOW

If no....
• Did your horse go barefoot?HE IS IN THE PROCESS OF GOING BAREFOOT AT THE MOMENT
• How often was he/she trimmed?
• How long was it before you saw a marked improvement in your horse’s condition?
• If you have your horse barefoot now but had him shod before, would you please be able to offer an opinion as to whether barefoot or shod has worked better for your horse?
 
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