navicular pony gone barefoot but really sore

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nikkirip

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After some great advice from forum members and a good heart tk heart from my very supportive Farrier I went barefoot with my pony yesterday. He is a 10 year old 11.2 dartmoor and until this April never wore shoes. Followi.g vet advice we put some on but nit improved lameness and he was last month diagnosed with impar ligament damage.

So yesterday took shoes off and had his feet trimmed. He seemed fine at first but today he was really foot sore, hobbling and looking unhappy. He also had pulses in his feet particularly left fore. It's the right fore with the problem.

Now I'm worried I've done the wri.g thing and was wondering of experiences of those who've gone barefoot or advice about what to do.

Many thanks
 
One of the liveries here has navicular.

Owner would not go barefoot. Shoes is the only way to go for him its the only way horse is comfortable.
 
My TB gelding was 18 when he got to the end of the road with remedial shoeing etc after being diagnosed with navicular when he was 10.
He, however had been shod up to that time, not barefoot. If your pony has this diagnosis when he was barefoot, is suggest you get an experienced barefoot trimmer in to re balance his feet. I can only think they must have been out of balance or not trimmed correctly for his ligaments to have been damaged, wild horses even here in the uk where they are never shod and self trim their feet don't normally sustain these injuries.
I took my geldings shoes off in spring 2006 and he began to grow new hooves straight away and within three months, I was riding him again. However because he had compromised feet already, I had to take it very slowly at first and only turned him out in boots and pads all round for one hour and gradually built the time up, and left his boots off when his feet were a bit stronger.
Movement with the correct hoof balance is what your pony needs but, if he has had a radical trim to rebalance his feet, it will have thrown out his muscles and other ligaments that have got used to moving in a different way. It will be like the reverse of you wearing 6" heels all day and night if you haven't been used to heels. It throws everything else out at first.
If this is the case, I don't know if boots and pads will help because it's not necessarily his feet (soles) that hurt and even the little extra weight of boots will make him worse.
I would keep him in a soft stable to encourage him to lie down, manage as described by Angieandben, turn out for short periods at first and build up gradually.
Did you have a new trimmer/farrier or have you used your regular hoof person?
 
Mine was awful when the fronts came off looked like he had laminitis had to turn him out in boots and pads, was ok in the stable on a deep shavings bed.
His feet have now toughened up but it took three months but he is an ex racer with navicular who would have been in shoes from an early age!
 
Leviathan said:
Owner would not go barefoot. Shoes is the only way to go for him its the only way horse is comfortable.
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As I described in my story above, if the feet are badly affected by shoes, they will be sore at first. More often than not, remedial shoeing only delays the inevitable - as in my case.
It was eight years wasted on my gelding whereas, if the bf movement had been further forward in 1998, and I knew how much extra damage was going to happen with shoes - remedial or normal - I would have had his shoes off and gone through the transition carefully and I could have had another eight years of riding him and competing. Unfortunately, he was 18 when I took his shoes off and only had another couple of years of riding before other health issues took over and he is now retired aged 24 - but with much, much healthier bf feet.
I believe he wouldn't be here now if I hadn't taken his shoes off, he'd have been put down at 20.
 
nikkirip said:
After some great advice from forum members and a good heart tk heart from my very supportive Farrier I went barefoot with my pony yesterday. He is a 10 year old 11.2 dartmoor and until this April never wore shoes. Followi.g vet advice we put some on but nit improved lameness and he was last month diagnosed with impar ligament damage.

So yesterday took shoes off and had his feet trimmed. He seemed fine at first but today he was really foot sore, hobbling and looking unhappy. He also had pulses in his feet particularly left fore. It's the right fore with the problem.

Now I'm worried I've done the wri.g thing and was wondering of experiences of those who've gone barefoot or advice about what to do.

Many thanks
Click to expand...
Sorry but you haven't gone barefoot, you've had the shoes removed by a farrier and had a trim, this is so very different from going barefoot it would take a while to tell you here. But you are lacking much needed expert advice which barefoot care would give you.
 
Andalucian said:
Sorry but you haven't gone barefoot, you've had the shoes removed by a farrier and had a trim, this is so very different from going barefoot it would take a while to tell you here. But you are lacking much needed expert advice which barefoot care would give you.
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See this is the sort of reply that bugs me, of course he's barefoot, he has no shoes on. Whether he is comfortable working barefoot is another matter, this is where Hoof Boots come in, very handy!
 
muff747 said:
As I described in my story above, if the feet are badly affected by shoes, they will be sore at first. More often than not, remedial shoeing only delays the inevitable - as in my case.
It was eight years wasted on my gelding whereas, if the bf movement had been further forward in 1998, and I knew how much extra damage was going to happen with shoes - remedial or normal - I would have had his shoes off and gone through the transition carefully and I could have had another eight years of riding him and competing. Unfortunately, he was 18 when I took his shoes off and only had another couple of years of riding before other health issues took over and he is now retired aged 24 - but with much, much healthier bf feet.
I believe he wouldn't be here now if I hadn't taken his shoes off, he'd have been put down at 20.
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:confused:

in K case as I said owner will not go barefoot K is happy on his shoes and he is 30 years old
 
nikkirip said:
After some great advice from forum members and a good heart tk heart from my very supportive Farrier I went barefoot with my pony yesterday. He is a 10 year old 11.2 dartmoor and until this April never wore shoes. Followi.g vet advice we put some on but nit improved lameness and he was last month diagnosed with impar ligament damage.

So yesterday took shoes off and had his feet trimmed. He seemed fine at first but today he was really foot sore, hobbling and looking unhappy. He also had pulses in his feet particularly left fore. It's the right fore with the problem.

Now I'm worried I've done the wri.g thing and was wondering of experiences of those who've gone barefoot or advice about what to do.

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Considering you have pulses, keep him off grass for 24 hours and then see if he is more comfortable. If he is - you know it's a grass and sugar problem.

Keep him on soft ground only and consider getting some boots and pads for him. Otherwise use dry poultices.

Treat any thrush in his frogs/heels.

Be very cautious about trimming in the future. Pretty isn't necessarily functional ;)

It's been one day. Everyone freaks out when they take the shoes off. As long as you protect his coffin bones and soles from bruising - he cannot do himself any harm or lasting damage (despite some rather hysterical claims you often see :))
 
Thank you all. My Farrier is pro barefoot and talked me through trim. He also had a lot off as he grows quickly and the shoes seem to have exasperated his high heel growth. So I did expect him to be s bit sore but I wasn't expecting him to be so bad. Thank for your support I'm off to get him some boots and I'm sure I'll be back for some hand holding shortly.
 
nikkirip said:
Thank you all. My Farrier is pro barefoot and talked me through trim. He also had a lot off as he grows quickly and the shoes seem to have exasperated his high heel growth. So I did expect him to be s bit sore but I wasn't expecting him to be so bad. Thank for your support I'm off to get him some boots and I'm sure I'll be back for some hand holding shortly.
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:D:D:D

Perhaps a little too enthusiastic with the trim? You can't fix everything straight away. Often leaving 'wrong' mechanics in place for a cycle will help things in the long run. Taking too much off - even if it what we 'should' do will cause the horse to be too sore to move. And the hooves won't become strong and healthy without movement.

It's a lesson even the best of the best struggle to learn. Liase with your farrier and let him know what happened, so he can adapt the trim next time :) He wasn't to know the trim was too much. Sometimes you can't predict it.
 
My pony was footsore once when the farrier took off too much hoof, and he doesn't have any foot or lameness problems. It took nearly 2 weeks before he was 100% again.

I remember once I had my horse's shoes off, just to give his feet a rest, and it was November and a sharp frost, so I put some padding attached with Duck tape over his feet as I was worried that they might get bruised on the hard ground.
 
Thanks Oberon. Yes perhaps a little too keen with the trimming so I'll let you know. Going to get some boots.

Could it really be the grass? Haven't done anything different with feed wise and he is out in a bare paddock with a mask on. The only thing different was removing shoes and trimming.

In terms of boots just looking at the cheaper easyboot for the moment. Are these any good?

Thanks
 
nikkirip said:
Thanks Oberon. Yes perhaps a little too keen with the trimming so I'll let you know. Going to get some boots.

Could it really be the grass? Haven't done anything different with feed wise and he is out in a bare paddock with a mask on. The only thing different was removing shoes and trimming.

In terms of boots just looking at the cheaper easyboot for the moment. Are these any good?

Thanks
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The pulses were what led me to think grass.

If he was slightly compromised by the grass beforehand but couldn't feel it with the shoes - then removing the shoes and trimming will have shown the problem up.

It's always worth being cautious when giving advice over the internet - and laminitis is something worth being paranoid about ;)

Don't worry that he will never be comfortable with the grass etc. You are at the beginning of the journey and this (should be) the worst he will be. From now on (with your help) he should get better and better. When the hooves are healthy and the horse is able to work, many of them manage OK on grass. It's a law of percentages and right now he has too much stacked against him to be comfy straight away.

With the boots, I would speak to someone who specialises in them. The Easycare range are great - but some of their boots need to be fitted well to work properly. Your pony's hooves are going to change shape and dimensions over the next 9 months. You may need a pair that are more forgiving with their fit and it's best to speak to someone who has a working knowledge of them.

http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/about1073.html

Lucy Nicholas is good to talk to. She wrote this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Barefoo...9874/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346071673&sr=8-1 http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/D/Hoof_Boots-(Hoof_Boots).aspx
http://www.facebook.com/lucynicholas75
 
OP - without photos we are somewhat shooting in the dark

But it is very common for recently deshod horses to get a pulse - and its not necessarily anything to do with grass.

We can't ask them - but they may be getting a pins and needles effect. Evidence to support this is that it is much more common in hooves which had contractedheels while in shoes.

If the pulses only last a short while (a few days at most) it may well be this.

Doesn't mean you can rule out the grass though. The lami apps in my area have been on red for days.
 
I know exactly how you feel. My tb had his off on Tuesday and is very sore. You just have to plod on through it, his feet will soon adjust and toughen up. When the frog hasn't had that contact with the ground they are bound to be sore. Mine is out in the field where he is comfortable and wears his boots to walk up to the yard. I have a UKNHCP trimmer coming out this week though. This is my second attempt at barefoot but the first time I have used a trimmer. (horse has navicular)
 
UPDATE Albus was turned out this morning with his new easyboots (the original types) on. He was already feeling much better without anything on his feet as he nicked off out his stable and made a break for it the other night! However with boots in he towed me to field this morning. He's only getting two hours and build it up.

Now I need to look at his diet. As a feed he is getting:

250g blue chip lami lite
Small scoop healthy hooves
Equine America glucoasimine and msm
Biotin

He will eventually be back I. His field of weeds and a little grass for about 10-12 hours through the day with mask on and get 3kg of dried hay triple netted (he is efficient with double nets) for the night.

He is currently overweight at 295kg.

What can I do to improve his diet?

Many thanks
N
 
nikkirip said:
UPDATE Albus was turned out this morning with his new easyboots (the original types) on. He was already feeling much better without anything on his feet as he nicked off out his stable and made a break for it the other night! However with boots in he towed me to field this morning. He's only getting two hours and build it up.

Now I need to look at his diet. As a feed he is getting:

250g blue chip lami lite
Small scoop healthy hooves
Equine America glucoasimine and msm
Biotin

He will eventually be back I. His field of weeds and a little grass for about 10-12 hours through the day with mask on and get 3kg of dried hay triple netted (he is efficient with double nets) for the night.

He is currently overweight at 295kg.

What can I do to improve his diet?

Many thanks
N
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I would imagine the Blue Chip may not be a great fit for the mineral profile of your grazing or hay. Perhaps swapping to a more foot friendly mineral supplement would help your pony more. What's in the Healthy Hooves?

I couldn't feed glucosamine to my TB, as it aggravated his gut - not sure if this is a common phenomenon, though.

P.S I love your pony's name :D
 
TwoStroke said:
I would imagine the Blue Chip may not be a great fit for the mineral profile of your grazing or hay. Perhaps swapping to a more foot friendly mineral supplement would help your pony more. What's in the Healthy Hooves?

I couldn't feed glucosamine to my TB, as it aggravated his gut - not sure if this is a common phenomenon, though.

P.S I love your pony's name :D
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I have had two competion horses whose guts where badly affected by glucosamine.
 
Sorry user error I meant to say OP boots and pads can be a saviour I am glad you have got some and hope it all goes well from here .
I would recommend Nic Barkers book Feet First which helped me to understand the process and BF thinking better.
 
Nice to hear he's feeling better. When the shoes come off initially, there is an increase in the blood flow to the feet. Also they get much more feeling back, quickly so it must feel odd for them.
When horses feet are working properly, they don't just stomp along like a shod horse, they 'feel' where they are putting their feet and what on. It just takes a little time to get it all together.
 
Ummm,

There seems to be a huge "we've missed the point" here?

The pony, ten years old, was never shod until April this year. Nikkirip I assume he was shod because of the impar ligament damage and not that the ligament damage occurred because of the shoes?


If so, is the farrier who is now supporting barefoot as a cure for the impar ligament damage the same farrier whose trim was in operation on this pony when he got the impar ligament damage?

If so, is everyone clear WHY the pony got impar ligament damage and what is now being done differently in the trim to correct the damage and to stop it happening again????

And is this farrier the right person to be doing it?
 
cptrayes said:
Ummm,

There seems to be a huge "we've missed the point" here?

The pony, ten years old, was never shod until April this year. Nikkirip I assume he was shod because of the impar ligament damage and not that the ligament damage occurred because of the shoes?


If so, is the farrier who is now supporting barefoot as a cure for the impar ligament damage the same farrier whose trim was in operation on this pony when he got the impar ligament damage?

If so, is everyone clear WHY the pony got impar ligament damage and what is now being done differently in the trim to correct the damage and to stop it happening again????

And is this farrier the right person to be doing it?
Click to expand...

Hi Cptrayes,

The shoes were put on as the vet thought at the time he had brusied soles. I am annoyed that I allowed this as it went against my better judgement. I was hacking him 10 miles frequently unshod last summer (but he was very fat!!!) with no lameness.

So I followed vets advice and got original farrier to put shoes on. Because Albus had never been shod before he kicked up an almighty fuss and my farrier who has a bad back couldn't cope with him. So I changed to a new younger farrier who does my breeder's pony's feet.

So in answer the new trim is by a different farrier. I did note, in hindsight, that his heels were starting to get very high previously but I trusted my farrier and just proceeded.

This new farrier is lovely and I feel very confident with this one that I would happily question his work without him taking offence or me being 'scared' to mention.

I now have a foot obsession and have spent the last month looking at every horses foot that I come across and being on a busy livery yard I have had plenty of different types, weights etc to look at. I'm starting to get an idea what a decent frog looks like and it isn't Albus'.
 
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