Navicular rehab progress report

cptrayes said:
If a horse is sound and in full work drug free then a vet can't say then clearly if the horse was lame and is no longer, a barefoot rehab has worked, radiographs notwithstanding. If it was a one-off case, your point is valid but we are talking about there being at least one commercial yard that sells rehab treatments and hundreds of individuals all around the country who have rehabbed horses that vets and farriers said would never be sound. There is a substantial body of evidence now if anyone looks for it.

It is not a case of "taking someones word for it". Vets can see a horse which was lame move without lameness. That evidence is clinical, not anecdotal. It can be, and is being, replicated time after time. They may not understand WHY the treatment has worked, but that's a different issue.

The proof that it works is that there are now dozens, probably into the hundreds, of horses that were recommended to be retired or put to sleep which are in full work without shoes. It drives me batty that there are vets and farriers out there who are strongly resisting finding out why horses that they gave up on can now work. I have no respect whatsoever for professionals who don't maintain a curiosity about new ways of treating old diseases, especially when the number of case studies they could find is now very, very considerable.
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I understand your point but i'll try and explain mine. A vet with a horse in front of him can assess that its now sound when it was once lame. But what about the vet that is confronted with a lame horse and is trying to determine the best treatment? That vet has the treatments that have been used over recent years, with varying degrees of success. But say he considers barefoot rehab- where does he go for evidence of its effectiveness? Unfortunately its just not good enough to say theres evidence out there- go find it. The vet could look on the internet/speak to the rehab yard and find 100s (as you say) of positive case studies but they are still based on peoples opinions that barefoot rehab made a lame horse sound. Without x rays or standardised treatment wheres the proof and also how can it be guaranteed it was solely going without shoes?

100s of cases across the country may only equate to one per vet practice (or less). Thats insufficient for many vets to shelve other treatments and go with barefoot- just on opinion. If a large number of the case studies could provide x ray (or other) evidence and not just opinion (of sometimes untrained/or non-professional persons) then vets would naturally be more confident in trying barefoot rehab.

Im not disagreeing that barefoot is an option, just trying to point out the necessity for firm evidence and not just anecdotal evidence. And nor am i saying that you should re-x ray your horse, thats up to you!

I totally agee that professionals should keep learning. its amazing how many vets think months of box rest is the best way to minimise scar tissue when healing a tendon injury, when its been proven controlled exercise is better. that sort of thing can hugely imact on a horses future.

Incidentally, i have a horse with arthritis who competed for 8 more years at national level after i was told to shoot him. He has had a further 6 years of retirement after i was told to consider pts for the second time. he is still going strong. I basically disagreed with the vet each time and took my business elsewhere for more help- and my horse is still alive with many years left! so i understand how annoying/frustrating/upsetting it is when a vet has a limited treatment strategy.
 
I completely agree with your post TeddyT and very well put. hopefully when the Liverpool/Rocley Farm research is published this year it will spur more research. Unfortunately the numbers in the first study are too small for it to be considered conclusive, and we need more.

Well done with your horse, he's lucky with his owner.
 
I'm going to stick my neck out here.....
i spoke to my AEP trimmer yesterday and after me telling him what the vet said, he would like to see my Xrays and is coming out to see the boy next week..Hooray!

after all of these positive comments I am sure (and I have to be) that it will work. In a few months time, when my crippled horse ('i'd give him a 60/40 chance of being sound again' -vet from equine hospital) is feeling better and is comfy on his feet, I will get him X rayed again and see if there are any changes. I haven't tried the remedial shoeing and therefore the only thing that would have changed would have been the shoe removal. if over time he is still in pain, of course I will try the shoeing option, as him being in pain is the last thing that I want.

so many of you have Pm'd me with your stories, advice and general encouragement. Thank you
 
cptrayes- thank you for threads like these and your posts on other threads. i can single you out as being someone who has taught me alot on here. As you have probably gathered i do like my science and research ;) and dont just take things on face value. However you have discussed things so well on many threads on this subject without resorting to arguments (as can happen on here) and have put across many valid theories and ideas, so i have learnt alot.

I am anti the cult/fanaticism/airy fairy/bandwagon/extremism or whatever you want to call them ideas and opinions on things like barefoot, having backs done or whatever. And there are alot of that type of posts on here!Simply because i know what harm can be done. But you have done a good job in educating a sceptic on the barefoot movement :) Please note i am not anti barefoot at all ( i have several without shoes), i am just a perfectionist who wants all bases covered when making decisions on my horses. And your posts have been great in answering many of my questions. Thank you :)
 
Ooh my. I'm blushing. Thank you so much for writing that. I have been roundly attacked from time to time but if one horse is saved or one person feels they have gained something from my ramblings then it's all worth it. I'm just like you, I want science, proof. Apart from the barefoot thing, no-one could possibly mistake me for a tree-hugger!

I'm wondering how much it would cost to get an Equine Studies person to do their dissertation trying to pull together as much anecdotal evidence as possible of the individuals around the country who have rehabilitated their navicular/foot-ddft horses, or failed, and why they failed. Anyone got any idea how we could get that done???
 
cptrayes said:
I'm wondering how much it would cost to get an Equine Studies person to do their dissertation trying to pull together as much anecdotal evidence as possible of the individuals around the country who have rehabilitated their navicular/foot-ddft horses, or failed, and why they failed. Anyone got any idea how we could get that done???
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It shouldnt actually cost anything but time. Someone would need to put a rough idea of a proposal(s) forward to the colleges and ask if any students would be interested. In return the student would need the help of owners/trimmers to give them the information they required, answer questionnaires, provide data, etc- depending on the experimental design. The more people who could provide info the better, so it would need the support of groups/individuals in the field of barefoot.

You just need a keen student who is interested in the subject area!
 
I can add to the stories of a horse that was lame, not navicular, was prescribed remedial shoeing for 12 months, with wedges, and other drug treatments, injections, etc. but was still lame in the field and was at the end of £5,000 of vets fees. Since it was still lame the vet was considering PTS.

Since it was a young horse the owner didn't want to do this, so discussed the horse with a barefoot treatment farm. The wedges were removed over 2 shoeings so as not to be a drastic and sudden change for the horse, then he went to the farm for rehab. After a matter of weeks he was sound and returned to the owner and resumed his endurance career. I think he is shod for the season (which works for this horse and owner) and then the shoes are removed for the winter. This horse could well have been dead at the age of 8.
 
I think he is shod for the season (which works for this horse and owner) and then the shoes are removed for the winter
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So what exactly has changed for this horse - other than time and a better shoeing regime??
 
Well all the "best treatment" that the vet and farrier could offer for a year didn't get to the bottom of the cause of the lameness nor did all the treatment make an improvement to his condition. He was just as lame at the end of it as at the start.

At the rehab farm he was without shoes and exercised, unridden to start with, in hoof boots and his hooves trimmed. The exercise made his hooves work and strengthen and he developed concavity naturally - it was not added artificially by wedges and metal shoes. His whole hoof became much stronger - the sole, the heels, the frog.
This natural concavity lifted the pedal bone higher. It was not the shoeing regime that made the different, it was NOT having shoes and being exercised without shoes, at first protected by boots so it was comfortable, which made the difference.
 
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