Navicular Syndrome in a horse thats already barefoot

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jerrysmum

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My 10yo gelding has not been right for a while, culminating in a lameness work up yesterday which showed he was lame on three legs. He had bilateral forelimb lameness and showed navicular changes in both front feet, and also arthritic changes in one hock. He is barefoot and is trimmed by a barefoot trimmer every 6 weeks, he has a low sugar diet and is kept on a paddock paradise. Vet has advised shoeing with a full set of shoes and he will look at him again in 4 weeks.

I am feeling pretty despondent about this, l thought l was doing the best for my horse taking him barefoot, and a lot of the positive stories about management of navicular seem to advocate transitioning the horse to barefoot, but mine is already barefoot so l don't feel l have anywhere to go. I'm also confused why my vet would recommend shoeing for arthritis when surely that would increase the concussion going through the joint and make things worse?

Has anyone else been in this situation or can anyone offer any advice?
 
I think with Arthritis the idea of therapeutic shoeing is that if you use heel support / extended heels (ie egg bar etc) this is supposed to support the fetlock joint more, and thus provide some sort of support further up the leg too - we did use therapeutic shoeing for spavin for a while and it seemed to help though we went barefoot six months ago and things are still fine.

We are new to barefoot, but I did read an interesting article on heel height - the gist is that if your horse has heel pain this may push him onto his toes and could make Navicular syndrome more likely (as a toe first landing seems to be a contributing factor) . This may not be relevant to you, and your horse may have a lovely heel first landing but this article by Pete Ramey about heel height is well worth reading

http://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html
 
I am very sorry for you and your horse but please listen to other people the barefoot brigade have there place but are not the only answer. My horse had navicular at the age of 5, and with good shoeing and careful management he competed at riding club level late into his teens. You have paid for the vets advise why not try it!
 
Be good to post pics of his feet.

The majority of horses with navicular who are managed barefoot successfully self trim. Which is a big difference to someone else deciding the angles their feet should be.

You've still got avenues to try, hope it works out for you.
 
Smurf's Gran said:
I think with Arthritis the idea of therapeutic shoeing is that if you use heel support / extended heels (ie egg bar etc) this is supposed to support the fetlock joint more, and thus provide some sort of support further up the leg too ...http://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html
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It's not support as such, you can't add support by weakening the digital cushion, but it's a way of artificially bringing back the foot under the leg more and possibly preventing the heel from sinking as far into soft ground and tilting back, as with a human snow shoe.

Are the rearmost parts of the heel back to the widest part of the frog or is there any long heel or under-run, thus placing the foot too far forward and overloading the caudal hoof?
 
Does the horse have good feet? those who have had say navicular barefoot seem to have got into the same situation as those shod such as low under run heels etc.

I would gather as much info as you can before shoeing, I also thought that changes in the navicular bone aren't necessarily a cause of lameness- a bit like KS where if you x-rayed enough horses half would show it but only a small percentage would have pathology, and that if you MRI there is often soft tissue damage too. I imagine if you shoe the horse might come sounder pretty quickly, if it were me I think I would like to see if I could make some changes barefoot to help first even if they take a bit longer.

Did the vet discuss any other treatments for the spavin, and I am presuming horse nerve blocked to front feet?
 
Ronalda said:
It's not support as such, you can't add support by weakening the digital cushion, but it's a way of artificially bringing back the foot under the leg more and possibly preventing the heel from sinking as far into soft ground and tilting back, as with a human snow shoe.

Are the rearmost parts of the heel back to the widest part of the frog or is there any long heel or under-run, thus placing the foot too far forward and overloading the caudal hoof?
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Please re read my post - the therapeutic shoeing I was referring to in form of egg bars / extended heel etc was referring to Spavin / Arthritis and nothing to do with digital cushion - I agree shoeing would do nothing for the digital cushion except weaken further.

However, shoeing with Egg bars and extended heel etc is a well known shoeing strategy for spavin. Whether you agree with it or not is of course another matter
 
I'd much rather go down the medical treatments route for the spavin than start putting shoes on though, think the navicular diagnosis and the spavin need treating separately rather than the horse is lame on 3 legs so lets shoe it first.
 
ester said:
Did the vet discuss any other treatments for the spavin, and I am presuming horse nerve blocked to front feet?
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No other treatments were discussed for the spavin, and yes he was nerve blocked in both front feet.

I am reluctant to shoe him behind because he is a bully in the field and has injured my other horses kicking them in the past, so l would have to keep him separate but l don't really have enough room.

He lands toe first in front, l will try and get some pics of his feet.
 
I would want to discuss treatments for the hock spavin- steroid/HA injection at the very least! and you vet sounds a little like the type who isn't up through working through lameness without shoes.

Has trimmer said anything about the toe first landing?
 
Smurf's Gran said:
Please re read my post - the therapeutic shoeing I was referring to in form of egg bars / extended heel etc was referring to Spavin / Arthritis and nothing to do with digital cushion - I agree shoeing would do nothing for the digital cushion except weaken further.

However, shoeing with Egg bars and extended heel etc is a well known shoeing strategy for spavin. Whether you agree with it or not is of course another matter
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Very sorry, I was just quoting part of your post as a reply to jerrysmum in a discussion about the effectiveness of shoeing for arthritis and a recommendation by her vet.

Hock spavin is, as we know, osteoarthritis of the three lower joints often brought about by a protracted imbalance of hoof biomechanics.
 
Welly said:
I am very sorry for you and your horse but please listen to other people the barefoot brigade have there place but are not the only answer. My horse had navicular at the age of 5, and with good shoeing and careful management he competed at riding club level late into his teens. You have paid for the vets advise why not try it!
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Because 80% of the time (figure from research not plucked out of thin air) shoeing doesn't work and the horse either stays lame or comes sound then goes lame again. You were lucky.
 
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jerrysmum said:
He lands toe first in front, l will try and get some pics of his feet.
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This is the answer to why he has problems. He has heel pain, the pain makes him land toe first, a toe first landing causes damage to the ddft inside the foot.

You need to find out whether the heel pain is something like thrush, and remove it. Or inside the heel which will need a campaign of hours of walking on tarmac roads, or sending to a place like Rockley farm.
 
Thanks ester and ycbm, that all makes sense. My trimmer has been today and we have had a huge discussion including sending to Rockley Farm, but she suggested l could probably do myself what Rockley Farm would do - l am doing most of it already. So she has recommended walking him on the roads for two weeks, then see if he has improved.
 
Yes very lucky, anyone who's horse is diagnosed with navicular and keeps riding them is very lucky be it barefoot or shod . I had a good vet and farrier and I just want to point out that shoeing can work.
 
Can't view pics ATM as phone being difficult but I wonder if trimmer commented on any of this/toe first landing before the vet visit?
 
Welly said:
Yes very lucky, anyone who's horse is diagnosed with navicular and keeps riding them is very lucky be it barefoot or shod . I had a good vet and farrier and I just want to point out that shoeing can work.
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Yes Welly, but eighty per cent of people who do a barefoot rehab get lucky, whereas only twenty percent of people who continue to shoe the horse get lucky.
 
No she didn't ester. I trotted him up at his last trim and she didn't mention it, and l only noticed it when he was trotted up by someone else at his lameness work up.
 
Not read full list of replies as I'm tired and heading to bed (apologies for spelling and grammar in advance!) but I personally would be challenging the vet on WHY they would like to shoe your horse? I'd also be talking to the person who trims your horse as to why they suspect your horse is landing toe first and what you can plan together to start correcting this. (Do frogs look thrushy, is this a recent thing since grass came through and do you feed a mineral balancer?). Think you also need to discuss treatments for spavin as avoiding the pain from the hock will encourage the horse to load the front feet more which won't be helping and could have been the straw that broke the camels back as it were (Not to mention the problems the altered way of going will cause over time to other parts of the body). From my brief scanning of your post whilst there's a lot you're doing right it sounds like there are other things to explore before looking at shoeing (I personally highly doubt that shoeing would help the navicular in the long term but I am neither a vet, trimmer or farrier... just an owner whose pony had his broken feet fixed by removal of shoes... and erm total and utter revamp of diet and management!)
 
In which case I wouldn't have much confidence in your trimmer if they aren't walking and trotting the horse up and spotted this before/made suggestions for improvement etc etc. Do you think he is possibly thrushy?

and I am still quite astounded that the vet hasn't suggested any treatments for the spavin instead/over and above shoeing.
 
From the hoof pics, it looks like the bars have overlaid the sole, especially on the right fore. This can be painful - like walking with a fold in your sock.


Also, I would want to tidy up the frogs a little, open up the cracks to get the air to them. They do look ready to shed, and thrush can hide in the crevices. If you haven't noticed toe first landing in the past, it may be a recent thing - to take less weight on the heels.
 
jerrysmum said:
Thanks ester and ycbm, that all makes sense. My trimmer has been today and we have had a huge discussion including sending to Rockley Farm, but she suggested l could probably do myself what Rockley Farm would do - l am doing most of it already. So she has recommended walking him on the roads for two weeks, then see if he has improved.
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this could be a possibility and nearer.
http://www.rook-farm.co.uk/barefoot.php
 
I would want the vet to give you a good, sensible reason for shoeing before I would go down that route. I know from personal experience it tends to be a snap judgement with some vets - horse isn't shod and is lame without any obvious bleeding holes - shoe it. A vet who doesn't have that attitude is a necessity for someone who prefers not to shoe.

There is a fair amount on the Rockley Blog re barefoot horses with a navicular diagnosis. Nic seems to suggest in her opinion it is usually either diet, metabolic issues, thrush or a biomechanical problem which may be either a trimming issue or something not foot related. For instance something further up (even soreness from a badly fitting saddle) could make a horse land toe first and start a vicious cycle.

I'm not sure how walking on the roads for two weeks will help if he is landing toe first whilst doing it. Would have thought it would make things worse (unless you will use boots / pads to get him landing heel first).
 
Those feet don't look ideal to me...... Maybe consider a 2nd opinion from another trimmer or barefoot friendly farrier?
 
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