Navicular Syndrome

No but I've got one that's come completely sound with no shoes at all. I've had him 12 weeks, he was sound at ten weeks when he came second in a dressage competition. Yesterday he did a six mile farm ride cantering and jumping and he's as sound as a pound today. He has x-rays showing damage and adequan, tildren, hyaluronic acid and bar shoes had all failed to bring him sound. Barefoot worked in weeks, as it usually does for the rehab horses at rockleyfarm.co.uk
 
yes I have :) have tried barefoot (didn't work sadly), natural balance shoes (didn't work) natural balance shoes with pads (again didn't work) then against vets advice I decided I had nothing to lose by trying eggbars (farrier advised these all along) and he has been sound for 15 months :)
 
No but like Caroline I have one that I rescued from remedial shoeing through which the symptoms lessened, then got much worse. I removed the shoes and transitioned the horse slowly to working barefoot and now it does at last 20 miles a week unshod on tarmac, stones, grass, arena surfaces, including jumping. Really comfy horse now. My vet just grins when he sees her now, he's enjoyed watching the transformation.
 
neddynesbitt said:
yes I have :) have tried barefoot (didn't work sadly), natural balance shoes (didn't work) natural balance shoes with pads (again didn't work) then against vets advice I decided I had nothing to lose by trying eggbars (farrier advised these all along) and he has been sound for 15 months :)
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Can you explain what you mean by "it didn't work"? Was he unable to tolerate working barefoot or did he stay unsound with the navicular syndrome? If he was barefoot did your trimmer/farrier get him heel first landing? How long was he without shoes for and what did he do in that time? Sorry about all the questions but if he remained lame with navicular with a heel first landing and no shoes then he's the first one I've ever heard of. Plenty of people can't make the diet and lifestyle changes to stop them being footsore, but please let us know - which was yours????
 
cptrayes said:
Can you explain what you mean by "it didn't work"? Was he unable to tolerate working barefoot or did he stay unsound with the navicular syndrome? If he was barefoot did your trimmer/farrier get him heel first landing? How long was he without shoes for and what did he do in that time? Sorry about all the questions but if he remained lame with navicular with a heel first landing and no shoes then he's the first one I've ever heard of. Plenty of people can't make the diet and lifestyle changes to stop them being footsore, but please let us know - which was yours????
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As far as my vet & farrier were concerned barefoot wasn't working for him. He stayed lame in front but was definitely landing heel first. I must point out that the vet had already told me of other horses she was treating that had come sound barefoot. He has had an MRI and had no soft tissue damage at all but changes in his navicular bone in both front feet although the right fore was worse.

He was without shoes for 18 weeks and was not in work as he was too lame :( he does not tolerate box rest (gets dangerous to handle & literally canters round his box also double barrelling walls with his back legs) so he was turned out daily which kept him completely sane.

I have two friends whose horses are barefoot due to navicular with great success, I am not knocking it at all but just saying that it didn't work for my lad. Like all things in life, what works for one doesn't neccessarily work for others
 
neddynesbitt said:
He has had an MRI and had no soft tissue damage at all but changes in his navicular bone in both front feet
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So sorry you had to deal with this, and for asking more questions as I know how hard it can be to keep going over it all, but I'm interested to know if your vet could explain what had happened to your horse's navicular bones?
 
My horse was diagnosed with Navicular "syndrome". i.e. presenting as Navicular but no changes on X-ray. She has been shod in egg bars for the last 5 years, and sound the whole time. We compete in affiliated dressage, showjumping and I have just started eventing her.
 
neddynesbitt said:
As far as my vet & farrier were concerned barefoot wasn't working for him. He stayed lame in front but was definitely landing heel first. I must point out that the vet had already told me of other horses she was treating that had come sound barefoot. He has had an MRI and had no soft tissue damage at all but changes in his navicular bone in both front feet although the right fore was worse.

He was without shoes for 18 weeks and was not in work as he was too lame :( he does not tolerate box rest (gets dangerous to handle & literally canters round his box also double barrelling walls with his back legs) so he was turned out daily which kept him completely sane.

I have two friends whose horses are barefoot due to navicular with great success, I am not knocking it at all but just saying that it didn't work for my lad. Like all things in life, what works for one doesn't neccessarily work for others
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I'm really grateful you took the time to explain that, thankyou very much. What an interesting case he is. I'm sorry you have such a problem but hopefully the bar shoes will continue to do their job. Plenty of horses wear them - it seems to be very common on the hinds in dressage horses at top level. It sounds like you have a great vet and farrier.

I wonder what on earth went on for him to get navicular bone damage with no soft tissue damage. One of the mysteries that will never be resolved I guess.

I'll add your experiences to my mental databank, thanks again.
 
Admin

Couldn't help noticing the dates on the links you posted none of which were more recent than 2003.

It seems to me this does not take into account

1) Advances made in diagnostics due to the increased use of MRIs. Vets can now analyse in greater detail what is going on in the Navicular bone and associated structures and compare this to degrees of lameness and prognosis
2) New drug treatments now being tried such as Tildren as well as therapies such as IRAP and shockwave which are sometimes used for 'syndrome'.
3) Barefoot as a solution - there is currently a clinical trial to prove/disprove anecdotal evidence that it helps in these cases.

Were those really the most recent links you could find to post?
 
cptrayes, thanks for your reply. The vet and physio have both been out to see him today and were amazed at how well he is doing :) I spoke to the vet again about his navicular along with other problems he has had :( Not too long after he was diagnosed with navicular,the vet broached the subject of PTS if he didn't improve as he really was very lame) So you can imagine her surprise today when she saw him. She said that the changes to his navicular bone on xray were not catastrophic hence the reason he went for MRI as she thought he must have soft tissue/DDFT damage but he got the all clear on that count

One thing that may possibly be relevant in his case is that I was told by more than one vet that lack of turnout could be a big factor. In our area yards with winter turnout are few & far between and the 1st winter we had him, he was at a yard with no winter turnout at all :(

Although he went on the horsewalker for an hour a day & was worked (hacking or schooling) he spent many hours stood in. The vets explained that standing in is not good for the circulation & certainly wouldn't have helped him.

I managed to find a yard with turnout soon after diagnosis & I really feel it has helped him as well as making him much saner :)

You sound very knowledgeable about navicular & I would be really interested to know if you had heard this theory about lack of turnout?
 
my horse chipped his navicular bone last year dont really no how just got him in from the field one day and he was lame :( ... When the vet first saw him he had a bit of swelling in the coronet band and was 3/5 lame i think on a circle, went for nerve blocks and x rays and found a chipped nav so was refered for remedial shoeing (he has very sensitive soles so when he loses a show he goes lame!) ... started with a gel pad in foot, then moved to a plastic one the onto wedged shoes as were recommended but the wedges made him worse so changed to normal shoe with concussion pads and they have worked wonders :) is sound as a pound now *touch wood stays that way" :) ... but vet sayed that he will need an injection into his foot every so often to keep him sound, cant remember name of it sorry, but he got one in sept and still doesnt need one!

Ive never heard about the turnout thing :O i shall have to ask my vet lmao as my horse doesnt get that much turnout tbh :/
 
neddynesbitt said:
cptrayes, thanks for your reply. The vet and physio have both been out to see him today and were amazed at how well he is doing :) I spoke to the vet again about his navicular along with other problems he has had :( Not too long after he was diagnosed with navicular,the vet broached the subject of PTS if he didn't improve as he really was very lame) So you can imagine her surprise today when she saw him. She said that the changes to his navicular bone on xray were not catastrophic hence the reason he went for MRI as she thought he must have soft tissue/DDFT damage but he got the all clear on that count

One thing that may possibly be relevant in his case is that I was told by more than one vet that lack of turnout could be a big factor. In our area yards with winter turnout are few & far between and the 1st winter we had him, he was at a yard with no winter turnout at all :(

Although he went on the horsewalker for an hour a day & was worked (hacking or schooling) he spent many hours stood in. The vets explained that standing in is not good for the circulation & certainly wouldn't have helped him.

I managed to find a yard with turnout soon after diagnosis & I really feel it has helped him as well as making him much saner :)

You sound very knowledgeable about navicular & I would be really interested to know if you had heard this theory about lack of turnout?
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Well the turnout theory works for me. There's no doubt with a barefoot horse the more movement it has, even in boots preventing wear, the quicker the feet grow. I put that down to delivery of more blood through the foot with movement. Because of this, my horses are rarely in their stables. They are either in the field overnight, or in a barn big enough to canter in during the day, or vice versa in winter. (I'm lucky with my facilities, I know).

Shod horses have less of a blood supply to the foot. Several studies have shown that, plus the fact that a horse will typically grow foot twice as fast with his shoes off. So if you have one who doesn't have the most brilliant blood supply in the first place (perhaps genetic, apparently there are "bad" strains of warmblood for navicular bone erosion), then you have to shoe him, then you have to keep him standing in a stable, I can easily see how there would be a restricted blood supply to the bone which would cause it to decay from lack of minerals and/or bone "turnover". And that the DDFT would not necessarily be involved in that process.

I'd say that for want of any other evidence, your vets have got it right. I hope for your sake that the bar shoes and greater turnout will continue to do the trick for you. I'm sorry you're having a difficult time, but I have certainly learnt from it, thankyou.
 
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Thanks again it all makes sense what you are saying. My first ever pony (Highland) also had navicular & the only way we could keep her sound was for her to live out.

One day we drove to Goodwood (about an hours drive) and after that time she was unsound having stood in the trailer. We were doing a long distance ride & the vet who was checking them failed her but suggested I walk her round for 20 mins.....after that time she came sound & we completed the ride & she passed the vet at the end as well.

I was told then that it was unwise to have her stood in for any length of time so I did know about it affecting blood circulation to the feet but didn't realise at the time that it could possibly cause navicular in the first place.

I am keeping everything crossed that our lad continues as well as he is at the moment, he is only 10 and such a happy chap bless him.
 
I have a horse with a navicular and I have tried everything:

- remedial shoeing
- Tildren
- Naviculex
- Sterioid Injections

He must be quite advanced in the disease as turnout for long periods makes him alot lot worse so its catch 22 for me.

My last option is a neurectomy ( cutting the nerves at the back of the heel) but I havent decided whether to go for it yet.

I havent heard anything about no shoes helping but obviously does in some cases, judging by the replies
 
I'm not sure what's going on with my mare. I bought her as a light hack which is all I want to do with her anyway. Her previous owner said she's sound in walk, trot and canter, but lameness returned when she tried jumping (she was regularly competed from the age of four - she's eleven this summer). She didn't try galloping.

I have serious confidence issues so I've hardly ridden her in the 18 months I've had her, so she's spent most of her time chilling in the field, unshod. She spent her first winter with me out 24/7, and last winter she was in at night till she took the decision to stay out in mid-January.

Touch wood, she's not had a day's lameness since I've had her, and she's being brought back into work very slowly. She has her feet trimmed regularly (normal trim, not rolled toes or anything special), and three independent farriers have both commented on what great feet she has, and none of them believe she has navicular (syndrome) now.

So what's going on? Is it being effectively turned away for 18 months that fixed her? Was barefoot the solution? Maybe being out 24/7 so she can manage the condition herself? A combination of all her lifestyle changes since she came to me? Is she cured, or maybe she was misdiagnosed in the first place?
 
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my girlie was still lame with remedial shoeing. i decided to try her barefoot after reading on here and she is almost completley sound now after only about 3 weeks its just on stoney ground but she still needs to adjust
 
Sorry, this might seem like a slight hi-jack - but rather than starting up another whole thread, this might be the more appropriate place anyway?

I'm reading this post with great interest - I have a new horse on loan (had him for about 2 months now) and he's suddenly presenting intermittent lameness. Brief history - he was a successful show horse from the age 3 (in hand) and then ridden. He was sold to someone who kept him for about six months or so, and due to whatever circumstances I'll never really know, he wasn't being kept (eg not fed and not worked) and the previous owner bought him back. He was thin, very unhappy and just a shadow of his former self. So he was turned away, barefoot in a field for about a year to put some weight on again (albeit, a bit too successfully....he became fat!). The owner had a youngster to bring on and couldn't manage working two horses anyway, so hence his being out of work. So she found him a loan home (me).

I've been carefully bringing him back to work - he's was overweight and soft. His fitness over the past two months have improved, but still a ways to go re weight/condition/muscle restoration. I've had his teeth checked, his back done and my farrier has done him once in this time. He's currently on a high fiber diet (lots of chaff, he's food obsessive due to his non-fed time when he was sold!) and due to the incredible amount of lush grass in our yard's only "starvie" paddock, his turnout has been decreased from all day (when there was no grass), to 4 hours, to 2 hours! He has been in daily work, carefully planned and with lots of stretching, walking and increase in intensity over gradual period.

He was absolutely fantastic up til a week ago - I went away for a long weekend and when I came back he'd had four or five days off. So I lunged the first and second day in a soft arena. He was fine. He had the next day off. The following day I had a friend hack him, she got as far as the drive way (which is stony) and she said he was lame. That night I tacked up, took him in to the sand arena, he was okay, but shuffly - he just felt a bit stiff - but he'd had some back issues and I just contributed this to the fact that maybe I overdid the lunge work the first two days. The following day about the same. I thought my friend was nuts that he was "lame". The following day he was hacked out, he was sound as a pound...on stones, on pavement, on grass. Next day, worked in the bark arena - best work I've ever had from him - beautiful forward going and sharp off the leg. After his work in the school, I went to take him for a wee walking hack to stretch and he was lame -- like seriously hobbling lame on stones, pavement, grass. So dismounted and walked home the 300 yards or so that we'd gone.

Farrier came out to check his feet for stone bruise -- no pain whatsoever in his soles. No pulse, no heat, no swelling. Feet are a long narrow shape, tiny wee pony feet. The foot in question also has a slight twist in it which from what owner tells me has never given him a moment of unsoundness in the time she's had him. In fact, she tells me he has never been sick or sorry, never footsore.

He's not showing any sort of consistency re unsoundness - soft or hard, circles or straight line...one day it's all sound, next it's lame! Yesterday he came in from his brief visit to the paddock lame! Vet is coming but I'm wondering now if it's potentially navicular. Sidebone? Lami? Something else?! all of the above?!
 
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