Mule
Well-Known Member
My farrier is very pro barefoot. He always recommends it, especially for horses with troublesome hooves.
Navicular syndrome
- Thread starter StaffofZig
- Start date
Mule
Well-Known Member
[]
StaffofZig
Active Member
Crickey!
Yes that’s certainly flat alright. Is he barefoot now or does he need boots., excuse any stupid questions this is new territory. Thanks
StaffofZig
Active Member
Last shoeing my farrier talked about barefoot in s general way, about how the foot relaxes when out of a shoe, even briefly, he might do this, I can but ask ðŸ‘
ester
Not slacking multitasking
You might find he is, I think most of the time it is still something that farriers/vets need to be owner-led because it isn't a quick fix, and requires a fair amount of input from the owner to want to see it through. But if you gen up and can have a frank discussion with them about it re. pros and cons often they will also consider it worth a try.
I started with a trimmer as then farrier said he didn't really know how it worked/wasn't confident too given his lameness etc so suggested I get someone else in, then after couple of years and knowing that actually he did better with smaller trims every 2-3 weeks I did him myself for a while. Farrier now does him again as horse in somerset and me in cambridge. We did have a few conversations re. which bits to leave well alone but now I just let him get on with it.
I started with a trimmer as then farrier said he didn't really know how it worked/wasn't confident too given his lameness etc so suggested I get someone else in, then after couple of years and knowing that actually he did better with smaller trims every 2-3 weeks I did him myself for a while. Farrier now does him again as horse in somerset and me in cambridge. We did have a few conversations re. which bits to leave well alone but now I just let him get on with it.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
He did everything without boots after six months. He died of colic a few years back now.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Can I please just add my vote for barefoot?
Same story, navicular heartbar shoes for WAY TOO long at 8yo, last chance barefoot rehab and still sound at 18.
Flat soles are the product of bad diet and perhaps some over zealous carving. It will sort it self out in no time if you feed for the hoof and let the back of the foot "breathe" again. Let the foot become the foot it was always designed to be.
Navicular syndrome is nothing more than a contraction/compression of the back of the foot. I'll leave it up to you to work out how it got like that...
Same story, navicular heartbar shoes for WAY TOO long at 8yo, last chance barefoot rehab and still sound at 18.
Flat soles are the product of bad diet and perhaps some over zealous carving. It will sort it self out in no time if you feed for the hoof and let the back of the foot "breathe" again. Let the foot become the foot it was always designed to be.
Navicular syndrome is nothing more than a contraction/compression of the back of the foot. I'll leave it up to you to work out how it got like that...
Mule
Well-Known Member
Flat soles can also be genetic.
PoppyAnderson
Well-Known Member
Good to hear positive stories about farriers and barefoot. I've known many farriers, all highly regarded and without exception, they were either anti-barefoot and/or lacking in knowledge about it. They also always made the horse footy following a trim, even when I've been stood over them telling them what to do! I would never let a farrier touch my horses feet now.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Navicular diagnoses also result from collateral ligament strain. This is often caused either by sheer bad farriery - shoeing the foot unlevel, or by trying to impose symmetric feet on horses which actually require asymmetric feet - often to balance legs that aren't straight somewhere higher up, or by a lack of strength in the back of the foot creating instability that allows the ligament to tear.
Collateral ligament strains, the last time I saw any research published, had only a 20% chance of recovery to full work using shoes, and more like 80% for a barefoot rehab.
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Collateral ligament strains, the last time I saw any research published, had only a 20% chance of recovery to full work using shoes, and more like 80% for a barefoot rehab.
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ohmissbrittany
Well-Known Member
This was pretty much my experience with my horse as well ^^^ Big fan of taking the shoes off to let feet sort themselves out. If you feel you can't do it forever, some time out of shoes is better than no time. Horses used to get regular breaks from shoes and even Beezie Madden pulls hers between competitions. The average amateur doesn't because we ride a little bit all year.
We had been fighting intermittent, subclinical lameness for two years (my trainer and vet called me crazy for about a month because she was "just a little short" on one front leg - then we xrayed the feet and found the back of the coffin bone was 1cm BELOW the front, and the lameness was likely DDFT). 3 months of handwalking and light riding.... 3 years later sound horse with no foot related issues minus an abcess last summer in hind (likely from angry wall kicking mare behavior bc it's unusual to abcess in the back feet)
ester
Not slacking multitasking
out of interest did you re-xray? I mostly ask because I didn't 
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
I’m yet to see this proven confidently.
There are genes that means it’s hard for the Connemara to cope with no shoes on but flat soles... not so much.
Racehorses some sayers almist GMO with their bad feet but I’ve seen so many go barefoot successfully I have to question that thinking.
Mule
Well-Known Member
I don't have scientific proof about flat hooves and genetics, but my own horse was born with them. He's an ID X tb and the cross can produce flat feet. The feet are flat because of how the bone in his hoof is shaped. On top of that he also has really thin soles
I do think that barefoot does the most for horses with flat feet. They really do need the best management. Shoes just don't help them.
I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I haven't transitioned mine yet. I co-own him (with a family member) so both I and his other owner have to agree to it.
His other owner events him and there's the issue with studs.
He has a couple of months out of shoes each year but the farrier is keen to take him barefoot. I think that will help convince his co-owner.
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tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
That’s interesting. Do you have x-rays to show how the pedal bone is shaped? Genuinely interested 🙂
Mule
Well-Known Member
I don't unfortunately. He's never had them x-rayed.
StaffofZig
Active Member
I’m sorry., xx
StaffofZig
Active Member
out of interest did you re-xray? I mostly ask because I didn't
Yes, though what that achieved I’m still not sure because he’s lame in the right but shows the exact same lesions in the left and the vet didn’t seem to be sure himself which is why he suggested MRI. The coffin joint injection shows more by dint of the fact that he’s now sound (and back to being full of himself) 🙄🤗
StaffofZig
Active Member
I’ve had zig 19 years, I bought him with flat feet. He doesn’t tolerate sugar so he’s been on low sugar/starch feeds, good grass, teeth feet everything regularly done.
As with humans feet are inherited more than created I think., 😊
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Many sound horses show changes to the navicular bone. For decades now it's been known that it's not of any clinical significance unless it's severe or there are bone spurs outwards. MRI established along time ago that most long term foot lameness is a soft tissue problem.
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ycbm
Overwhelmed
I think it is true that some feet are genetically shallower/flatter than others, but I suspect (from having had one which was on the point of being out to sleep) that most thin soled flat footed horses would improve radically if they were completely removed from grass. That's a very big ask of an owner when shoes work for a horse, though.
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HashRouge
Well-Known Member
I am riding an Arab gelding atm who is unshod, and he has fairly decent feet and will go over rough surfaces happily, bit you can tell he feels them a bit. I keep wondering what he would be like if he had half the amount of grass (he's very fat!) and the right balancer!
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I'm guessing he's not yours and you can't try it.
The effect of grass on some horses is like poison.
A lot of vets and farriers would ridicule me for saying this, but on a big enough footed horse you can see concavity rise and fall over 48 hours by changing access to grass. There's something in it, I think, that turns the laminae more elastic and allows the bones to drop inside the feet.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Completely agree with you. We didn't just go out and decide it would be good to have smelly appendages on the end of our legs one day, just for shits n giggles. Humans have evolved a certain way and so have feet to allow bipedal movement. Of course there are different sizes, shapes, etc but all humans can stand, walk, run and do many other things... unshod. Shoes can impede or enhance movement/growth/function of not just the foot but the whole body as has been studied many times. You only have to do a quick google or search pubmed. The only reason I got searching was because of a shoe injury to my own foot.
Horses evolved to live on rough herbs and grasses either on rocky mountains and plains or in marshes or moorlands and therefore evolved different shaped hooves to cope with the terrain, but ultimately the single-toe evolution is what allowed them to be so agile and fast. I'm afraid I just don't buy that horses "inherited" crap feet - inherited from where? Thier ancestors that have evolved to be the way they are today over many millenia? Humans are a tiny blip in that time and we took them from where they evolved to lived and decided it would be a grand idea to pump them full of sugary beef grass as the only food source (not everyone, but it's the been the way for many years now). To stop their hooves from melting off humans invented metal bars to nail on. That still didn't stop hooves melting off and here we all are scratching our clever little human heads wondering where it all went wrong.
I'm trying to follow a number of very clever vets, farriers, podiatrists and scientists out there studying hoof form and function today and are discovering that the way we keep and feed domestic horses is ultimately the only factor limiting their health. Despite us all thinking it's in their best interest. I'm discovering fascinating information all the time and I'd encourage anyone with an ounce of interest in hooves to go out there and find these people and make your own mind up. Don't take it from me, as I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination.
StaffofZig
Active Member
I got zig as a 2 year old and his feet were awful, for the last 19 years he’s had regular farrier, low sugar/starch feed, good hay blah blah.
My understanding is that most horses/ponies have the lollipops and some navicular change but it doesn’t become a pathology until there are more than 7 lollipops.
Zig has 13 in each foot but only showed lameness in his right. But he has some change in his left hock and I suspect that’s relevant
StaffofZig
Active Member
My Arab had fantastic beautiful feet but could not walk on gravel at all., does make me wonder how flat footed heavy weight Zig will manage 🥴
ester
Not slacking multitasking
humans might be a blip in that time but we've managed to perpetuate many massive (compared to the usual rate of evolution) in many plant and animal species so I can totally see the inheritance issue.
StaffofZig
Active Member
Vet has just informed me Zig has high and low ringbone. The steroid has worn off and he’s back to 1/10ths lame. Vet wants me to ride zig for a week at walk. This has just got an awful lot worse. Does anyone have knowledge/experience of ringbone. Zig isn’t insured so surgery can’t happen, thanks x
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Barefoot.
StaffofZig
Active Member
On it. ðŸ‘