navicular #

Plenty. Search navicular using the search facility above and you will find a ton of good news about barefoot rehabs. It can often (normally, I would say) be cured. Look at rockleyfarm.blogspot.com and rockleyfarm.co.uk
 
Ditto cptrayes my horse would be shipped off to Rockley Farm asap if he had been diagnosed with navicular, my boy has been there and has made a full recover from collateral ligament damage beyond all vets expectations. good luck.x
 
"Navicular" can mean a serious and progressive bone degeneration, or it can mean much less in the way of bony changes and damage to the DDFT/collateral ligament etc. So it depends a bit on what you have as the latter will be easier to manage.

My 21 year old danish WB has had the latter. He has egg bar shoes and lots of supplements and periodically gets cortisone injections into the coffin joint area. He has been managed like this for 11 years. I have had some lameness flare ups but in aggregate about 1 year off over the last 11. He is often not 100% sound on first trotting but eases out after a few minutes. He is a PSG level dressage horse.

So please dont assume its all doom and gloom. It can be but often you can manage these conditions with a good farrier and some treatment. And as others have said there is a study being done at rockley farm with Pete Clegg of liverpool uni into using barefoot trimming on horses with this problem and they have had some good results with horses who have not responded to anything else.
 
I was told today, that navicular only occurs in shod horses.

Is this true?

I have to say I haven't heard this before, but every time I mention it, I get the 'everyone knows that look'.

Perhaps I did know and have forgotten. (this could be serious).
 
AndySpooner I think it is probably more common in shod horses but I don't think any stat worthy records are kept.

However if a horse is habitually ridden not straight even to a small degree it can get high/low which can lead to a diagnosis of navicular syndrome in the low foot. This can happen regardless of whether the horse is shod or bare.

It is very unlikely in feral horses or those which move a lot over a variety of terrain in a natural way from birth. This is because the natural movement allows them to strengthen and straighten their bodies naturally as they would have if living wild.

This is why one of our goals should be to a) allow our horses as much natural movement as possible and b) ride them correctly.

I have seen a high/low horse straightened up in a matter of months only to go high/low again when returned to its owner. I didn't have the balls at the time to tell the owner to learn how to ride properly - to my eternal regret.
 
I "think" the OP is speaking of navicular fracture (# - being a shorthand for fracture) and so is looking for info on this rather than navicular disease/syndrome. I may be wrong though:)
 
AndySpooner said:
I was told today, that navicular only occurs in shod horses.

Is this true?

I have to say I haven't heard this before, but every time I mention it, I get the 'everyone knows that look'.

Perhaps I did know and have forgotten. (this could be serious).
Click to expand...

Definitely not true, it can occur in any horse with poor foot conformation - long toe/weak heels. It's just that poor foot conformation is so much more rare in a working barefoot horse :) It also appears (from what happens when you take off the shoes) that in many horses, shoeing causes the poor foot conformation by gradually making the toe slide forward. That may be a farrier issue or just the shoes, I don't know. But as a trimmer you'll have seen yourself how the horse puts its foot right again once the restriction of the shoe is removed.


ps If you're right misst then the OP will know by now that using little-known shorthand is unlikely to get them the response they want :) !!
 
AndySpooner said:
I was told today, that navicular only occurs in shod horses.

Is this true?

I have to say I haven't heard this before, but every time I mention it, I get the 'everyone knows that look'.

Perhaps I did know and have forgotten. (this could be serious).
Click to expand...

Just quickly got this link to the study done in New Zealand on wild horses, not the best link, but interesting all the same,http://www.allpetspost.org/allhorse...s-common-in-wild-horses-in-new-zealand-study/

My horse has been doing well since diagnosis, with corrective shoeing and lifestyle change, her feet are doing really well. Definitely, not all doom and gloom.
 
The problem with the NZ study is that we already know that those feral horses are living in terriority which is not very well suited to horses. If you swopped the populations of the Nevada horses with the NZ horses and left them long enough I dare say you'd find the relocated Nevada horses would have the foot problems currently afflicting the NZ ones.

Very odd some of the things done in the name of 'research'
 
Lucy Priory said:
The problem with the NZ study is that we already know that those feral horses are living in territory which is not very well suited to horses. If you swapped the populations of the Nevada horses with the NZ horses and left them long enough I dare say you'd find the relocated Nevada horses would have the foot problems currently afflicting the NZ ones.

Very odd some of the things done in the name of 'research'
Click to expand...

Very true, the environment plays a large factor, but worthwhile research all the same, as not many horses can be kept in the terrain and climate of Nevada. We have to work with what we've got. The link was merely an example of unshod horses having navicular (and laminitis) in response to AndySpooners post.

Even unshod, feral horses can survive and breed in an environment that challenges their well being. They can and do suffer from similar problems as our domesticated horses.
The difference is that domesticated horses have a better chance of treatment and a longer life.
 
An interesting study from NZ. However, I have seen a similar Australian study where two groups of horses were relocated. The ones from a good feral environment feet quickly fell apart whilst those relocated to a better feral environment improved.

The conclusion I drew from the NZ study was that the unsuitable environment provided plentiful grazing without much effort coupled with regular frosting gives the same problems as any other man made unsuitable environment.

This should not be used as a justification for keeping domestic horses in the wrong conditions.
 
AndySpooner said:
This should not be used as a justification for keeping domestic horses in the wrong conditions.
Click to expand...

I didn't say or infer that it was. It was an example in answer to your question reguarding navicular only occurring in shod horses. However, it is a fact that for us, we do not have the terrain or environment or vast areas for roaming freely.
My point was actually that barefoot, feral horses can suffer from navicular.I don't quite see how you leapt to the conclusion that I was justifying keeping horses in the wrong conditions.

I give up. Any discussion with the barefoot brigade is always tediously defensive. I consider myself a barefoot advocate, but only where it is in the horses best interests.
 
horserider said:
I didn't say or infer that it was. It was an example in answer to your question reguarding navicular only occurring in shod horses. However, it is a fact that for us, we do not have the terrain or environment or vast areas for roaming freely.
My point was actually that barefoot, feral horses can suffer from navicular.I don't quite see how you leapt to the conclusion that I was justifying keeping horses in the wrong conditions.

I give up. Any discussion with the barefoot brigade is always tediously defensive. I consider myself a barefoot advocate, but only where it is in the horses best interests.
Click to expand...

Firstly, remember that I was asking a question, not making a statement.

Secondly, I was in no way leaping to any conclusion that you or anyone else here was justifying keeping horses in the wrong conditions. If you think that I am sorry I gave the wrong impression.

The point that I was trying to make is that , since we have taken over the entire life of horses and control their range, breeding and feeding, we owe it to horses, with whom we believe we have a special relationship, to do everything we can in the horses best interest.

Instead we keep them caged like hamsters with little or no turnout, such as it is, in many cases. We feed them all the wrong food in the type of grasses and cereals we force on them, very often by coating it on sugar. Then we breed for colours, extreme sizes and un natural shapes, from mares which are very often chronically lame.

Little wonder these threads are often full of tales of disaster.
 
AndySpooner said:
Firstly, remember that I was asking a question, not making a statement.

Secondly, I was in no way leaping to any conclusion that you or anyone else here was justifying keeping horses in the wrong conditions. If you think that I am sorry I gave the wrong impression.

The point that I was trying to make is that , since we have taken over the entire life of horses and control their range, breeding and feeding, we owe it to horses, with whom we believe we have a special relationship, to do everything we can in the horses best interest.

Instead we keep them caged like hamsters with little or no turnout, such as it is, in many cases. We feed them all the wrong food in the type of grasses and cereals we force on them, very often by coating it on sugar. Then we breed for colours, extreme sizes and un natural shapes, from mares which are very often chronically lame.

Little wonder these threads are often full of tales of disaster.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you.
 
My horse is currently at Rockley Farm. He was diagnosed with navicular (some bony change) and collateral ligament damage. A friends horse is also there, with similar issues including a bone bruise. I didn't do this lightly, and have been worried that I'd made the right decision, but I was not willing to have him shod with wedges, pads etc. only to have him lame again in a matter on months. The friends horse has been through the remedial shoeing with no success.

On my latest visit to Rockley he was not only looking 100 times better musculature-wise, he felt 100 times better to ride than he had for ages. The friends horse, who is 19, was like a six year old again!
Not only that, but his pidgeon-toes are actually straightening. Yes, he is still tentative on hard ground, but the difference in just 6 weeks is amazing.
It's definitely worth looking into. It was the support of others on this forum that made me do it and I'm so very pleased I did.
 
My horse was a vet/farrier right off . I was told I would never ride him again and he was not likely to make it through last summer. I have had him for 7 years and was devasated.

He was diagnoised with navicular after being lame (4/5 10ths lame) for over 18 months and I tried every treatment there was, steriod injections, tildren, remedial shoeing, navilux and nothing worked.

He went to Rockley Farm last October and came home in January and has been hunting, on endurance rides and is currently in full work and being ridden 5 days a week.

If it wasnt for the rehabiliation at Rockley, he would not be here today.:D
 
Luciejjkk said:
My horse was a vet/farrier right off . I was told I would never ride him again and he was not likely to make it through last summer. I have had him for 7 years and was devasated.

He was diagnoised with navicular after being lame (4/5 10ths lame) for over 18 months and I tried every treatment there was, steriod injections, tildren, remedial shoeing, navilux and nothing worked.

He went to Rockley Farm last October and came home in January and has been hunting, on endurance rides and is currently in full work and being ridden 5 days a week.

If it wasnt for the rehabiliation at Rockley, he would not be here today.:D
Click to expand...

Well done for making the decision to send him to Rockley. Fantastic result.
 
My previous horse had navicular, the xrays showed a very small amount of degeneration (hope thats the right word) The vet said that every case is different. He'd seen xrays like my horses that were in so much pain they recommended the hose was pts. He saw other xrays where he said the horse should by rights be dead but was jumping grade A. My horse was young - 10 and was lame on and off and often only I would know if he wasn't comfortable as I owned him from a foal and knew him so well. He's now at a blood bank living the life of luxury. Obviously not being shod he finds his own balance and way of going.
 
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