Need a calmer for an overly excitable/strong horse.

I'm in the veterinary camp on this one. Have you trialled a gut supplement like Protexin or succeed? It might be a vicious circle in lack of turn out causing stress and increased acid levels which in turn cause further stress. The contrast of behaviour sounds ulcery/ hind gut acidosis and irritation to me.

I'm not aware that ultrasound can be used effectively for hind gut ulcers due to the length and convolutions of the duodenum?
 
CorriegarthJ said:
Is there not a reasonable bit of field you could turn him out on? Or section off? Even for half a day?
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As OP says he is out 24/7 in summer, yet it was in summer that he was "unbearable/boulty" in a warm-up, I don't think you can say it is a turnout issue.

I too have retrained some horses that, as the OP says, are full of gogogo, and are bad enough in trot but lose it in canter. People have tried to start to explain how that works. But, Op seems to want to stick with a supplement or magic equipment change.

Many training issues are worse when the horse is under pressure.

Of course, too much feed and not enough turnout exacerbate a problem. As the horse is stressed when ridden ulcers would not be a surprise either. I have not heard of ultrasound scans for hind gut ulcers before.
 
Red-1 said:
As OP says he is out 24/7 in summer, yet it was in summer that he was "unbearable/boulty" in a warm-up, I don't think you can say it is a turnout issue.

I too have retrained some horses that, as the OP says, are full of gogogo, and are bad enough in trot but lose it in canter. People have tried to start to explain how that works. But, Op seems to want to stick with a supplement or magic equipment change.

Many training issues are worse when the horse is under pressure.

Of course, too much feed and not enough turnout exacerbate a problem. As the horse is stressed when ridden ulcers would not be a surprise either. I have not heard of ultrasound scans for hind gut ulcers before.
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If you read that whole message you would've seen he was like that at shows as he is stabled before shows to keep him clean.
 
ThatConnieGal said:
If you read that whole message you would've seen he was like that at shows as he is stabled before shows to keep him clean.
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I also saw...

ThatConnieGal said:
He is so tense and strong to ride. When hes out 24/7 in summer he is not AS bad but it does still occur, especially at shows etc.

He will literally trot on the spot and throw his head in the air trying to break in to canter and as soon as hes in canter he will bolt, this is the same whether he is lunged beforehand or not. I have tried transitions and just trotting with no canter work for weeks but he still gets so worked up.
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This implies that he is bad all summer, just not AS bad???

Plus weeks of "just trotting with no canter work... but he still gets worked up," also implies that he is not a calm, confident ride in summer, even when out 24/7.

You have posted asking for help, people have tried to help. I have found you to be dismissive of anything other than magic supplements or tack, even though you have tried loads of different tack types and they have not worked.

I posted the training thread for a reason, even the most experienced people have to go back and do the work. That means no more work where he is not getting worked up. Meet hm back where he is confident, and work from there. Trying transitions and just trotting is no good, if the transitions and trotting is not far enough back in the educational chain that you are meeting him where he is confident. That is why I would go right back to in-hand work.

I know that when I suggested that, you said that he is polite in hand and cane in back, but being polite and reining back is different to doing it thoughtfully and yielding to the pressure by relaxing and complying rather than just doing the required movement with a brace.
 
ThatConnieGal said:
Hi all,

I love him to absolute bits but I am just getting more and more frustrated as the days go on.

He is so tense and strong to ride. When hes out 24/7 in summer he is not AS bad but it does still occur, especially at shows etc.
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I did read the whole message...but by the sounds of it he is getting much worse...?? hence I think your turnout is a problem, not necessarily THE problem but it’s obviously not helping.
Also, if it is not a physical problem, and it’s not a training problem, what do YOU and your trainers think the problem is?
 
ThatConnieGal said:
It is absolutely awful and the zero turnout is driving me mad let alone my horses. Can’t wait for spring!

I am going to cut out the hard feed now for a while to see how it goes, do you think I should still feed the chaff? Or is there any point?
I know arena turnout isn’t the best but I just hate the thought of them being inside 24/7 ?

roll on spring ?
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I wouldn’t bother with the chaff. Arena turnout is better than nothing and if he wasn’t getting that his behaviour would probably be worse. Sometimes we have to accept that what we can offer doesn’t necessarily suit the horse we have. I’m not saying this is definitely the case in your situation, but I think we sometimes have to face the fact that we can’t make a horse into exactly what we want it to be unless we can make changes to how we manage it. For example, my 6 year old gets daily turnout with his little herd and is ridden 5 or 6 times a week. At least 3 of those rides are hacking with plenty of uphill trotting and a good burn up the gallops. He’s always what I’d describe as ‘fresh’ and enjoys his work. Without daily turnout and the amount of exercise he has he would not be fun to ride. But because I am able to give him what he needs in terms of turnout and exercise his behaviour is manageable. Undesirable behaviour is not always down to something medical, it is very often a response to living environment and/or management. In my opinion 80% of horses would have hind gut ulcers if only they could be diagnosed ?
 
ThatConnieGal said:
If you want me to turn him out in absolutely bogging fields and have him do his suspensory again then then I don’t know what to tell you other than no f@#%ing way.
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I did not tell you to turn him out I would not tell you to do anything .
I did say he’s not getting everything a horse needs and without turnout he’s not getting everything he needs . I advised that a vast amount of long slow work helps horses getting no turnout .
But you don’t seem to want to acknowledge solutions to mitigate the issues you want to swear at people and generally behave like an out of control horse .
I am not going to rise to your bad manners my sympathies are however with your horse .
 
Goldenstar said:
I did not tell you to turn him out I would not tell you to do anything .
I did say he’s not getting everything a horse needs and without turnout he’s not getting everything he needs . I advised that a vast amount of long slow work helps horses getting no turnout .
But you don’t seem to want to acknowledge solutions to mitigate the issues you want to swear at people and generally behave like an out of control horse .
I am not going to rise to your bad manners my sympathies are however with your horse .
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Turnout is not an option. No matter how many times you say it would help, it is not an option as it is going to cause more problem and is not at all viable.

He has had lots of slow work, we have gone back to basics, for a long amount of time, to no avail.

I did not swear AT you, I was stating there is absolutely no way he can be turned out.

My horse does not need your "sympathies" dear, as I would doubt your own get any better treatment than him, he is treated like a king, and he knows it too. But thanks for your concern.
 
OP, you seem to be rather aggressive to quite a number who have given some pretty good advice. Like BP, I too have produced; quite a number of HOYS animals, taken 5 to Olympia..... I still keep my hand in on occasions and enjoy bringing them on. If this was one of your clients animals, would you be so dismissive?

To take a few words from a wannabe on faceache, can I suggest you give said animal half a tube of sedalin half an hour before riding and jog on to look for manners?
 
You did swear covering it up with bits and bobs would still get you a ban if I chose to report you .
l can only repeat I did not tell you to turn him out I told he’s not getting everything a horse needs without turnout .
It’s your job to mitigate the short comings of where you keep him .
When I say loads of slow work I mean every day every week all the time you walk them till they calm .

CorriegarthJ said:
He’s treated like a king that is not allowed to leave his bedroom....
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Yup a sort of house arrest with bad tempered servants .
 
Goldenstar said:
You did swear covering it up with bits and bobs would still get you a ban if I chose to report you .
l can only repeat I did not tell you to turn him out I told he’s not getting everything a horse needs without turnout .
It’s your job to mitigate the short comings of where you keep him .
When I say loads of slow work I mean every day every week all the time you walk them till they calm .



Yup a sort of house arrest with bad tempered servants .
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I am not covering anything up, if I wanted to swear at you believe me I would as you are quite stuck up and condescending.

As mentioned. I have gone back to strictly walk work before, then strictly trot.

And with at least 5+ hours of arena turnout a day he is hardly on "house arrest" hun.
 
ThatConnieGal said:
I am not covering anything up, if I wanted to swear at you believe me I would as you are quite stuck up and condescending.

As mentioned. I have gone back to strictly walk work before, then strictly trot.

And with at least 5+ hours of arena turnout a day he is hardly on "house arrest" hun.
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You have skated past my last post poppet.
Is this because you are not quite as experienced as you like to make out? I'm referring back to your last thread before this, when asking what to wear to show in hand, also asking about breeches to show in.

I think you are either totally out of your depth with this pony, or perhaps just a very rude minor who disagrees with any opinion that doesn't match your own.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
OP, you seem to be rather aggressive to quite a number who have given some pretty good advice. Like BP, I too have produced; quite a number of HOYS animals, taken 5 to Olympia..... I still keep my hand in on occasions and enjoy bringing them on. If this was one of your clients animals, would you be so dismissive?

To take a few words from a wannabe on faceache, can I suggest you give said animal half a tube of sedalin half an hour before riding and jog on to look for manners?
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I am not aggressive I am p'd off with useless and condescending replies. Acting as if I am the worst in the world to my horse when he gets nothing but the best of everything.

I didn't ask if you trained horses for HOYS etc, but well done here's your gold star.

This is not my clients animal, this is my animal. Not looking for hypothetical scenarios. I have never had a horse like this before.

Thanks for your oh so helpful advice! not.
 
ThatConnieGal said:
I am not covering anything up, if I wanted to swear at you believe me I would as you are quite stuck up and condescending.

As mentioned. I have gone back to strictly walk work before, then strictly trot.

And with at least 5+ hours of arena turnout a day he is hardly on "house arrest" hun.
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It depends on how the walk work is done though, to what aim and to what effect.

Also, I never thought I would see Goldenstar called hun on HHO. :eek:
 
ThatConnieGal said:
I am not aggressive I am p'd off with useless and condescending replies. Acting as if I am the worst in the world to my horse when he gets nothing but the best of everything.

I didn't ask if you trained horses for HOYS etc, but well done here's your gold star.

This is not my clients animal, this is my animal. Not looking for hypothetical scenarios. I have never had a horse like this before.

Thanks for your oh so helpful advice! not.
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Best of luck poppet, lose the big bag of chips and you might progress.
I'm out.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
You have skated past my last post poppet.
Is this because you are not quite as experienced as you like to make out? I'm referring back to your last thread before this, when asking what to wear to show in hand, also asking about breeches to show in.

I think you are either totally out of your depth with this pony, or perhaps just a very rude minor who disagrees with any opinion that doesn't match your own.
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Oh I am so terribly TERRIBLY sorry I asked an opinion as I don't show in hand, only under saddle! And compete in dressage mainly.

Thank you for being my #1 fan and taking the time to go through my page though!

You can question my experience all you like, it really doesn't phase me and I don't think I need to prove myself to someone on the internet. I have trained horses for years, and have many loyal clients.

Oh yes you are right 100% out of my depth! How could I be so naive! I will sell him tomorrow thank you for your help xoxo
 
ThatConnieGal said:
He gets turned out in the 40x60 arena for at least 5+ hours a day. He is not inside all day, don't comment if you don't have a clue about the situation. Thanks.
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I do have a clue about the situation....you are letting your “king” out in a man made garden, not outside foraging etc as he would naturally. No different to you being allowed into a 15x10 swimming pool to swim laps. Not quite the open sea is it “dear”
 
CorriegarthJ said:
I do have a clue about the situation....you are letting your “king” out in a man made garden, not outside foraging etc as he would naturally. No different to you being allowed into a 15x10 swimming pool to swim laps. Not quite the open sea is it “dear”
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Foraging for mud? Don't think he would be too pleased about being up to his knees in bogging ground and having his mud fever act up. But thanks

Also thats quite a ridiculous statement, and he enjoys his turnout time in the arena. Not exactly forced to "swim laps". Rather eat hay and have a trot around, but ok.
 
ThatConnieGal said:
You can question my experience all you like, it really doesn't phase me and I don't think I need to prove myself to someone on the internet. I have trained horses for years, and have many loyal clients.
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the fact you have to ask strangers on a forum (which you’ve been extremely rude to and not listened to anyway) how to calm/train whatever your horse despite being trained by international riders/trainers is questionable tbh. I think this horse is probably either not suited to your or your management of him, despite what you think about him being treated like a king, it’s obviously not enough
 
ThatConnieGal said:
You can question my experience all you like, it really doesn't phase me and I don't think I need to prove myself to someone on the internet. I have trained horses for years, and have many loyal clients.
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the fact you have to ask strangers on a forum (which you’ve been extremely rude to and not listened to anyway) how to calm/train whatever your horse despite being trained by international riders/trainers is questionable tbh. I think this horse is probably either not suited to your or your management of him, despite what you think about him being treated like a king, it’s obviously not enough
 
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