need advice re registration please.

H

henryhorn

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www.narramorehorses.blogspot.com
I admit I'm the world's worst at registering horses, and now it's come home to roost.
Originally when the british Database was set up I embraced the concept and got passports for my stock, when it failed I was incensed and stopped bothering. At that time the people who were buying them only wanted a basic ID which was provided with their flu/tet vaccination sheet, and as in every case they could see the stallion and the dam no-one cared.
Recently however things have changed , so earlier this year we had Chocolate re-inspected by Weatherbys for their NTR (he unlike our now deceased stallion had not been transferred over from the Database when it folded), and I was issued with covering certificates.
the problem arises when I try to register older stock.
I sent off a passport application the other day for a filly by him out of a database and HIS registered mare (now dead) thinking she could go on the NTR. The passport has come backas a basic ID with by unknown stallion, unknown mare.
I rang and explained the stallion is reg, and so was the mare, but they say they won't do partial bloodtyping or DNA so she can't ever get registered.
I panicked at this and said "Well what about the the broodmares by our other stallion, they have a dam who is reg on your NTR, can you bloodtype them and match it to him and the dam. "
No they can't, as they won't do partial testing.
I am stumped.
I have mares by a Wetherbys reg stallion ex a dam who is Weatherbys reg yet can't be registered!
I would like advice now from breeders what road to go down. the mares have produced super stock, and already it's made me realise the ones by Matinee despite having Selle Francais passports won't have full breeding details on the dam's side so may not be able to compete in pavo etc.
I would happily have paid for the brood mares to be DNA or bloodtyped but that way seems closed.
Which society is likely to assess them and their stock and possibly issue papers?
I am bloody furious with Weatherbys, if they had no record of the dam/sire I could understand it, but when both are reg with them, why the hell won't they allow some sort of test?
I know it's my own fault believe me, but I always assumed that at £160 plus a blood typing it would have to be done one day, and put it off..
Some passports show breeding despite not registering stock, but that isn't what I wanted, I wanted to be able to register stock properly!
Suggestions please, the sire of the broodmares has an irish passport reg and a Weatherbys NTR one.. The mare (original one only has a Weatherbys NTR one..)
my husband jokingly said set up your own breed society it may be the only way, at this rate I feel sufficiently desperate and cross to do just that..(joke, The NOT ELIGABLE Weatherbys Registration Society...)
 
Isn't the DNA held at the AHT (Animal Health Trust) for most of the societies (SHB, AES, Weatherbys), it maybe worth speaking to someone like the SHB because when I had a similar problem, I was lead to believe that I could do it through either society (AES or SHB in my case) even though neither parent was registered with them, as long as the AHT had the DNA on record for the parent I was trying to get my horse DNAed too, but I never actually did get the DNA test done I was looking into, so I can't confirm that its possible but definitely worth asking about.
 
Well, first, I'd want a second opinion from the top man at Weatherbys tbh. I was stuck in a similar situation, can't even remember for sure now what it was, it's that long ago; I was told one thing, went away and thought about it, realised it was wrong; wrote everything down so I didn't rely on memory, dates, sires, dams, everything, then went back to the stud department and went through it name by name with them. That was also when we only had blood typing, now DNA is done, surely it should be easier?
Someone else to try could be the Scottish Sportshorse Society; they seem very efficient and I know they will enter breeding as long as it is veriified. http://www.scottishsportshorse.org/
Passports are a nightmare if you've missed the boat, I know I did it once and it cost me an arm and a leg to get back on track!
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Do let us know how you get on though. (The idea of trying the AHT as they store the data is a good one)
 
The original mare was registered before they did DNA testing, so hers isn't available, but they should have the current broodmares' sire's on record plus his DNA.
The problem appears to be they won't do partial DNA testing.
The Scottish reg sounds good but taking anything up to Scotland for inspection from Devon sounds horrendous!
I have checked twice with Weatherbys regarding their refusal to not recognise the mares, but what I don't understand is if I got them tested and it was proved they were by their sire, why can't they then go on the NTR?
As for the filly with her dam with a Database and HIS passport, and her sire with a NTR Inspected registration, it seems ludicrous they won't recognise her!
Their excuse is they took over the database and can't be certain it's kosher, well why then did they transfer our original stallion sideways to their own reg when it folded? If the details were considered good enough then, I can't see why they aren't now!
I am so disaappointed, I had always planned to reg the mares and because the stallion was already reg assumed once bloodtyped all youngstock could get papers.
I am not going to give up, and will find a way, the resulting horses are in all honesty really decent sorts and none are heinz variety breeding which is what makes it so bloody annoying.. If I had just chosen a mare at a sale and bred I could understand it being like that, but we haven't, all of them have breeding details going back to at least their grandparents..
Thanks for the advice guys, I'll investigate all of it, keep it coming, I can't give up!!!
ps was the HIS the society that morphed into the Sporhorse one? If so at least one mare will be reg with them as she has an HIS passport..

edited to add the Scottish studbook has an Open studbook, so perhaps that's the way forward..
 
when i wanted to reg my mare as a broodmare to get her foal passported i already had papers NTR but no name on them,it would have cost about £200 odd to name her then more to reg as broodmare and more for the foal.
so i spent about£100 and reg both with the SHB and overstamped my mare
they were really helpful too.

good luck.
 
Thanks, I'm reading both their websites at the moment, the problem seems to be we will need to re-register the stallion and their criteria is quite rightly strict.
One society needs X rays and a full vetting plus a grading. Now bear in mind he is 16 years old, has had a broken pelvis so I would imagine is bound to have some arthritis damage on any X ray. He would loose school and jump superbly I know, but not sure how we get round the other problems. (he's sound and has passed two Weatherby's inspections)
I think I may just go for the mares registrations and any progeny from them, but again, they can't be recognised without him being graded.. (unless I have read the info incorrectly)
One of the interesting things is researching him on allbreed website it seems his dam was on the NTR, her sires side is all TB, and on the stallion side his sire although down as a Belgian Warmblood is actually anglo-arab and holstein!!
As my husband said, he's a b*** mongrel..
grin.gif

I am going to ring both societies later this week and see what they suggest doing, I am also going to find out where the DNA samples are stored and ask if it's possible to have the mares checked against their sire's DNA. The fact I can provide pics of them both being born doesn't count I suppose!
Will keep everyone updated as it has to be sorted once and for all, as they all have papers there has to be a way to provide thei offspring with them too.
 
you dont have to get your stallion graded if you are happy with basic ID passport from the SHB, if your stallion has a passport they would accept that as proof of his pedigree and list that on your foal's passport, but it would be a basic ID one rather than a main stud book one.
 
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