Need help seeing the wood from the trees!

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Street_Skill

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This is another lameness thread I'm afraid, but I'm a bit stumped and need a bit of help...

Horse is shod in front and bare behind (since April 2016). He has been in heart bars in front for a couple of years as he had a couple of corns which he was lame with for about a month and farrier suggested that heart bars would spread the pressure. His front feet are pretty flat (ex-racehorse) with very little/no heel. Although the quality of the horn has improved in the 5 years I have owned him, I have really struggled to improve his heels.

Fast forward to July this year and we move yards which also involves a change of farrier. This farrier wants to try a different type of bar shoe that supports the heel but doesn't cover the frog hoping that this will allow the condition of the frog to improve and be the first step in improving the shape of his foot. Farrier had to bevel out the underside of the bar to allow space for the frog, but a couple of weeks later horse is hopping/none weight bearing lame on one foreleg (I can't remember which). Shoe is removed and it transpires that there has not been enough space for the frog under the bar and it has caused significant bruising to his heel. After much discussion and me resisting using wedge pads to create "false" heel, we decided to keep it simple and go for normal shoes with a reduced shoeing cycle to try and prevent the toe from getting too long.

All was well (frogs looking much healthier and less wizened) until Sunday when he was very slightly lame when trotting out on a hack. No problem in walk, just an unlevelness almost in trot but trotted up sound on concrete that night. Put it down to the fact that I had forgotten to pick his feel out on Saturday after our hack and by Sunday morning the mud and some small stones were packed in tight. Sound in the school last night, but trotted up slightly lame on concrete. Farrier came out today and I agreed to have normal pads put on as he felt there was some bruising to his heel and possibly a small corn brewing. He seems much more comfortable tonight and walked down the step out of his stable with confidence.

Obviously I am pleased that he is more comfortable, but my gut instinct is that the pads are not a long term solution. I have seen the massive improvement in his hinds having taken his soes off (another long story!) and my gut instinct is that I need to do the same with his fronts (probably perservering with the shoes and pads until the better weather and extended turnout in the spring) if I am ever going to see an improvement in his heels. Another part of me is considering getting a lameness work up done to make sure that there is nothing more sinister brewing inside that I'm just covering up with a set of pads.

Sorry for the length, but I just feel a bit dispondant. He's a cracking horse with a massive heart and I just want to do the best by him. Any opinions, hints, tips and experiences welcome!
 
I think the bar shoes have prevented the heels growing, in theory they support the heel and may help short term but long term they are stopping the frog functioning as it should and also the heel from developing, whether this has now caused issues inside is a guess without xrays or an MRI but there is every chance that there is something going on that will not be resolved by pads or shoes.

I am not averse to shoeing and have had bar shoes on very short term to help with an issue but if they have not helped after two or three shoeings then there is something deeper that requires attention, the tb that came here with dreadful feet has been mainly barefoot for the past 3 years, he gets shod to wear studs as and when, his feet are excellent he has good strong heels a huge well developed frog and his toes stay back with the roadwork he does, as yours is bare behind I would take the fronts off or I would get him assessed by the vet if he was insured with a view to get the MRI done so you know what is going on, if not insured then I would just go ahead and take the fronts off as you have nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain.

From experience shoes and pads over winter will be a high maintenance way to go, they can be a nightmare to keep on and every time he pulls one off you will be set back in his recovery, you may be lucky and keep them on but I am not sure they will do his feet much good being covered over, a set of boots for exercise would enable you to keep him working while he grows the foot he needs.
 
be positive said:
I think the bar shoes have prevented the heels growing, in theory they support the heel and may help short term but long term they are stopping the frog functioning as it should and also the heel from developing, whether this has now caused issues inside is a guess without xrays or an MRI but there is every chance that there is something going on that will not be resolved by pads or shoes.

I am not averse to shoeing and have had bar shoes on very short term to help with an issue but if they have not helped after two or three shoeings then there is something deeper that requires attention, the tb that came here with dreadful feet has been mainly barefoot for the past 3 years, he gets shod to wear studs as and when, his feet are excellent he has good strong heels a huge well developed frog and his toes stay back with the roadwork he does, as yours is bare behind I would take the fronts off or I would get him assessed by the vet if he was insured with a view to get the MRI done so you know what is going on, if not insured then I would just go ahead and take the fronts off as you have nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain.

From experience shoes and pads over winter will be a high maintenance way to go, they can be a nightmare to keep on and every time he pulls one off you will be set back in his recovery, you may be lucky and keep them on but I am not sure they will do his feet much good being covered over, a set of boots for exercise would enable you to keep him working while he grows the foot he needs.
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Couldnt put it any better myself. I think the fact you say his backs are doing and looking so great means your heart is already saying the fronts need a chance as well? It takes time, patience and correct diet ... and boy when they said you need patience they really meant it!
 
Thanks both, I think you've said what I have been feeling and what my gut instinct is saying I should do. This was made even clearer tonight when I went up and saw him-the fetlock and inside of the leg of the affected foot plus hoof itself were warm and the vein was proud which in this horse means there's a bruise/corn/pus going on. He looks sound, however I bet if he didn't have pads on he wouldn't be and they're just masking the problem. In my opinion there's no way a corn will heal properly if the pressure is still there and I should have stuck to my guns and refused to have the pads put on and left the shoe off which is always what I've done in the past. Time to take the bull by the horns I think-getting him comfortable behind when I took his shoes off was bad enough, so I think it's going to be hard for him but I think the potential long term gains will be worth it....
 
In my experience often a horse that "doesn't grow heel" actually has heels that are too long and crushed... (my horse being one example). When you look at the feet from the sides, where is the END of the heel (the triangle where the wall/bar meet) in relation to the cannon bone and fetlock joint? If it's out in front, this is probably the case. I have had massive success removing my horse's shoes and allowing the frog/digital cushion to plump up and get her palmar angle right. Diet and turnout are the two biggies to help him- the more he's allowed to walk, the faster they'll improve.
 
I would be inclined to give him a complete holiday over the winter, turned out as much as possible, shoes off and all and let his feet find their own level but I'm one that can't abide quick fixes that mean nothing heals properly as it should. Unless they are breaking up (and on soft ground that shouldn't be too much of a problem) I'd be inclined to allow them to grow just that bit longer than you would normally (with shoes) which will hopefully give you more good hoof to work on in the spring. Make sure he's on a good diet as sugar free as possible but include linseed and brewers yeast, both excellent for hoof and skin condition. My farrier was amazed at the difference just six weeks feeding Formula4Feet made to one of my mares who came with horrendous coronet band down to floor wide cracks so might be worth a try too.
 
ohmissbrittany said:
In my experience often a horse that "doesn't grow heel" actually has heels that are too long and crushed... (my horse being one example). When you look at the feet from the sides, where is the END of the heel (the triangle where the wall/bar meet) in relation to the cannon bone and fetlock joint? If it's out in front, this is probably the case. I have had massive success removing my horse's shoes and allowing the frog/digital cushion to plump up and get her palmar angle right. Diet and turnout are the two biggies to help him- the more he's allowed to walk, the faster they'll improve.
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This is my experience too, that horses that "do not grow heel" do actually grow heel, but it shoots forwards, so the contact point with the floor is too far forward. When these go barefoot, and do controlled walking on concrete, the heel dramatically shortens and comes further back where it meets the floor.

Eventually the angle is much more upright, and the horse appears to have "more" heel.

Some horses have to start with 100 yds or less, but the more this can be done, several times a day, then the sooner it will re-model. Obviously correct feed is also paramount.
 
Have you had a vet out to X-ray the front feet to check foot balance? My friend had a horse with similar issues and she tried several types of shoe. In the end she got a vet to X-ray for foot balance with the horses usual shoes on and then off and the farrier and vet work harmoniously to get the balance right. They then x rayed again further down the line to see how things looked and all was good!
 
I would be inclined to get some hoof boots with soft, supportive pads inside, so he can be ridden comfortably. Hoof boots are not great in mud, in my experience, but if you want to ride him and help him strengthen up his feet, then boots are a good way to go.

Movement and work is good if the horse is sound and comfortable. If he has the winter without shoes, but you can keep riding him, then that can only improve his feet.
 
Thanks guys, this is all really encouraging and giving me more confidence to take his shoes off completely. I have also rung another farrier and am hopefully going to meet with him at the weekend to discuss the horse, as although my current one is excellent I feel we are approaching the situation from two different sides if that makes sense?! Watch this space!
 
I would get some X-rays they are a good investment .
Then you can repeat in nine months and see what's been going on
Handling the farrier may be hard .
Being economical with the truth and saying very busy over the winter etc etc just going to give him a break from shoes etc may be the best way forward.
 
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I would definitely take them off because you've nothing to lose by doing so and everything to gain. We've just started taking a sports pony who has been shod for 14 years barefoot. Reason for doing so is all of ours are BF and he has to be sedated to be shod so it's a no brainer. So far he is doing ten mins a day on smooth tarmac without boots and all other riding is done in the field or on a surface. His feet are long and I did not get them trimmed when the shoes came off as I have had success doing it this way. He's landing toe first at the moment.

If you have not already, have a look at Rockley farm for inspiration and confidence that it can be done.
 
I would be looking for a good trimmer - farriers are well trained at shoeing, but not so much at barefoot, hoof balance and stimulating good sole/frog/heel growth. It all depends on the farrier and the trimmer of course but trimmers are barefoot specialists.
 
I have to admit I'm a bit perplexed at the reasoning for using shoes to treat corns - corns are usually caused by shoes, as the bar material gets overlaid and crushed by the shoe causing bruising deep into the foot.

Anyway, that's all in the past...

I'm another one who would say, take the shoes off over winter. Get the heels stimulated, and I'm sure you will be surprised as how quickly they will shorten and come back to the right place :)
 
Bit of an update for those that are interested. New farrier came out this afternoon and I have to say I was very impressed. He instantly identified the problem and confirmed what I was thinking regarding the current shoeing arrangement. He even went as far as to say he thought the shoes were pinching him at heels now (only two weeks post shoeing) and that the current set up with pads wasn't doing the horse any favours. This confirmed my suspicion that although he is sound now, there is probably some low grade discomfort there and in a couple of weeks he will probably be lame again which probably also explains his slightly jaded outlook on life at the moment. To cut a long story short I decided to take his shoes off which new farrier did straight away. He tidied up his feet a bit and took his toe back a bit and I have to say he looks so much more comfortable already. He is standing much better with both feet underneath him rather than pointing alternate feet when at rest. I know it's a long road, but I know I've done the right thing-the farrier confirmed this when just before he left he said he thought it was the best place to start. I've booked him in for a trim in four weeks time and will measure hm up for some boots tomorrow then the hard work begins! Thanks to all those that replied to this thread, you've given me the confidence to go ahead and do it!
 
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