Need help with Dizzy - please

MrsMozartletoe

MrsMozartletoe

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Right. In tears today on a hack on the Dizz.

She was fine at first, but then the head thing started. The vast majority of the rest of the hack was spent bouncing, trying to canter down hills (on the road), arguing, snatching at the reins/bit, trotting on the spot/sideways, veins up. Friend said she looked coiled like a spring, ready to ping at any second. It made no difference if the reins were loose, or on a contact, or ridden forward, or collected up, or ignored, or argued back with :(

After forty mintutes of this, I stopped on a patch of grass and gave her a long rein. She immediately rubbed her right nostril on her foreleg (as always), and a bit of the left side of her head as well. After that she was fine! Relaxed.

So, what is causing this??? The following are the facts as far as I can figure them out:

1. Although she can be an argumentative bat, she did not once try to get me off (if she wanted to, I'd be off in the a blink of an eye).

2. She does not rub her nostril/head when she's in the field, or certainly not enough to be noticed.

3. She rubs the side of her mouth/nostril (especially the right side) almost as soon as the bridle goes on.

4. On a loose rein she is much better, far less 'argumentative'.

5. Take up a contact and the head arguing starts.

6. She can mentally get her knickers in a twist and start bouncing up and down a lot rather than going forward.

7. If one keeps at it, then she will soften and listen and the head will just about behave: this takes about an hour to achieve - today was the worst at about two and a half hours.

8. I think it's getting worse. She can get hold of the bit and lean on it, and be argumentative, but thinking about it, it is going on for longer.

I thought an allergy, but in that case, why no problem in the field?

I thought could it be something that irritates once the blood starts pumping round? Not heard of anything like that, but possible?

I thought the bit, which is the one I'm going with at the moment. She's in a broad barrel Myler. Note: I tried her in a Waterford (so she couldn't get hold of it), but that did not go down well! As above, only a lot more so.

My current plan of attack is:

Try one of the Sprenger bits. I'm thinking a French Link, but don't know whether to go for D rings or loose ring (the Myler has D rings).

Try the net nose bag (though I'm not convinced on that one).

Try her on Piriton (I'll be having a conversation with vet).

Vet and instructor think she's just being stroppy, but the response today, after she had a nose rub, makes me think otherwise.

On the plus side, her fitness levels are improving, she's starting to build muscle, she's getting the hang of cantering in the school, her balance is improving.

Hot chocolate with all the trimmings for all who managed to read this :)

Champagne and choccies for anyone who manages to come up with a cunning plan/advice/thoughts/views, etc. :D

Also in Comp Riders because I got m'rooms mixed up:rolleyes:
 
I wish I had the answers for you cos you have always been so supportive of me and my issues. Good luck. ( And why can't I put the smiley at the end of my message!)
 
sorry to state the obvious, but have you had her teeth and mouth checked recently?

just to make sure she hasn't got gum or cheek ulcers that give her discomfort when you pick the reins up??
 
Sorry you're having problems with Dizzy. Well I haven't a clue, but Piriton sends me to sleep. Would allowing her a long rein beforeyou set off set off allow her to scratch her nose and get comfortable - or would she gallop off into the distance.....
 
A few thoughts for you MrsM,

I agree and don't really think it's an allergy, you'd think she'd have other, more persistent symptoms wouldn't you?
I think that even if its not an allergy the nosenet may be worth a try (can you borrow one to try?)
What sort of noseband does she have on? could it be that something is nipping on a nerve or something and making her nose itch? I had this once with a welsh cob, and we switched from a flash to a grackle and the incessant need to nose-itch stopped within days.
Could it be a fly spray/coat shine/perfume response?
Ron throws his head about when there's midges around or if he thinks the horse in front is flinging mud at him (i try pointing out that he shouldnt be so close, but that doesn't go down so well, as surely IHO they shouldnt be in front of him! :rollseyes:
Tom flings his head about, sticks his tongue out when he thinks you're holding him up unnecessarily, and then strops more when the now cold wet tongue slaps him in the face like a dead fish! :eek: as obviously that was your fault! :confused:
What material is your bit? have you tried the same bit in a different material? could it be that particulat material doesn't agree with her (or her with it?!)
could it be oilseed rape? do you hack past it but not have any/much near the yard?

I think that's all i can think of for now. Thanks for the donation, very gratefully recieved :D
 
Don't know if this is going to help as I see you are not sure if she is a headshaker but thought I would share my experience as some of the things you talk about are similar to my horse.

He is a seasonal headshaker (April - July usually), never seen to shake in the field but does when ridden. I cannot hack him at this time of year as it is incredibly distressing for both of us - they cannot help it and it is believed to be very painful for them.

He doesn't do it every day, last week he was bad in the school on Monday - luckily we have an indoor so I can move him in there where he is fine, Wednesday same school similar weather but not one shake.

I know certain things seem to trigger his shaking - newly cut grass, working near to hedges / trees so I try to work round these and avoid them when he is bad - like no hacking. I still compete him affiliated eventing, he is usually ok when jumping and as long as the dressage arena isn't tight to a hedge he is usually alright.

I have tried a nose net but found it irritated more - haven't tried anything else as I seem to be able to work with it using careful management.

If she is just being a stroppy moo then the above probably won't help but just wanted to illustrate that just because they shake one day they may not the next. Unfortunately it is a syndrome that is not yet fully understood so if you do think she may be a headshaker it may be trial and error as to how best to manage her.

Sorry for the essay! Hope you find out what is going on soon.
 
Id hope it was a one off! maybe its just her having one of her days and taking the p**s. Give it another go and see what happens
 
Well I'll try again, lost the first attempt in the ether and I hadn't remembered to copy it! If she's had her teeth done recently, I'd go for the bit. I wonder if she is allergic to the material it is made from. I have heard before of a horse which was allergic to stainless steel and couldn't wear a bit made from it. I can be allergic to all manner of things and know how uncomfortable everyday things can make me feel.
If she was mine I'd try as many different bits as possible, keeping the style the same or similar (say French link) and change the material to see if she is better/worse with a particular one.
I do hope you get this sorted out soon.
Thanks for the hot choccie, I'll be back for the champers if my idea works out!
 
Hmm. The itching bit I think is common with the present weather, Milo also puts his head down and itches on his front leg, the bridle does cause him some irritation and I am running him in a looser bridle at the moment. Once he is in he gets a good head massage before we leave and it is now a routine reward that at the end of training he gets to use me as a scratching post.
 
She's in a cavesson. Tried a Mexican grackle, she told me to boil my head. Tried without a noseband, no difference.

Tried a nose net, she plays with it. Got a net nose bag to try tomorrow.

Sorry, doing this on an iPhone. Back to laptop in a few minutes!
 
I also note that at the moment he seems to think trot is for losers. Our walk/canter/walk transitions are really coming on!!
 
She sounds exactly like my mare.....and she is a headshaker.....it seems to be light rather than pollen that irritates her, though she coughs when the rape flower is out (only a bit).....the nose net works on my horse though, so good luck with the bag!
 
oh hun, poor you. i wish i could offer helpful advice. here's my attempt:

- agree with changing bit. could it be the material? in which case try different materials - but remember even rubber bits have the metal at the side...

- do the bridle's cheek pieces sit ok on her face? could you try a different bridle? maybe put sheepskin blinker things over them to see if that makes a difference?

- as it's a myler, i doubt it's got sharp/annoying bits, but it might be worth checking the bit all over for sharp edges

-does the bit fit her mouth well? it's not pinching or anything?

- how are you putting the bridle on? is there a chance it's catching on something? evenn just pushing some hairs backwards? if she's looking for something to have a grump about, maybe it's something that small?

- are you hacking past oilseed rape? my old mare used to get mega snot as soon as she sniffed it, if dizzy is snotty perhaps she's trying to wipe it on her leg like a real classy lady...?

um, there are my attempts at being helpful. i really hope you get it sorted.

xxx
 
Is it just on hacks - this may be way off the mark but my youngster does something vaguely similar when on hacks, but not now when schooling.

I think it began because he was slightly more tense hacking and gets neck pain - and this started to develop into a habit.

I used to stop, massage the top of his neck where he holds tension then walk on again - he would be fine for a bit and then start again. As he has been taught to use his back properly and his confidence has grown the problem has diminished.

It might also be worth doing schooling then short hacks for a bit - rather than long hacks and see if it is a hacking tension thing? Also, if just when doing faster work, you could try schooling and short slow hack, which may make them less 'exciting' for both of you?!

Alternatively, have you got a lot of rape in the field around and about, lots of horses have problems with that.
 
Goodness, sorry MrsM that was the wrong reply to the wrong thread!!!

What I meant to say is: sorry you're having trouble!!! Just an odd thought, could it be a tooth problem that gets exacerbated with the bridle? Rusky had this problem (despite frequent dentist visits!) and it took us 7 weeks to find the offending tooth!
 
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MB - many thanks hun :)

SF - teeth checked two months ago (back a month ago, saddler is every two to four weeks as she is changing shape so quickly).

D - good thought hun. I've tried a long rein (it's amazing just how fast she can walk!!).

JH - wow, there's a list :D
Nosebands: currently in a crank,but it's not tight (tried a cavesson, a Mexican grackle, no noseband). Will go back to the plain cavesson. She has a comfort bridle.
Sprays, etc.: she didn't have any one today.
Ron and Tom: lol :D
Bit: it's a Myler, so can't get the same shape, but going to try a different metal (a Sprenger).
Oilseed Rape: none near us.

D22 - I thought of head shaker, as has vet and instructor, but it seems more irritated/angry and anything else (if that makes sense). Sounds like you're doing well with your lad :)

CH - ta hun, but it's an on-going thing :( When we set off I thought it was going to be a good one, but hey ho.

PaS - going to try changing to a Sprenger, as I've heard good things about the metal they're made of. The only other thing would be one of the plastic type (Happy Mouth, and something else, a Nyler?).

MD - ta :). I'll put her cavesson back on, loose and see what happens. The bridle is a comfort one, so hopefully that should be okay. She hates any bit that causes any poll pressure :o. After she's worked she always gets a head rub - thank heavens for Mountain Horse jacket/BP lol. I think she would quite like to go fast, a lot of going fast, but it gets so unbalanced I'd be surprised if she didn't fall over!

M - will try the bag tomorrow and see what she's like.

CCP - yup, going for a bit change :). Doesn't seem to be an issue with her bridle, but will check :). Bit fits; will check for sharp edges :). I'll check there's nothing sticking up/in/out. Good point re. the snot - there isn't any... (no rapeseed around here). Thank you :)

C - she does it in the school and out on hacks. Doesn't seem to make any difference. Tried schooling first, and loose rein before hacks; tried hacking after schooling, etc. She is schooled four days a week (including a lesson), and hacked once a week. It doesn't make any difference as to the weight of the rider or their skills. Instructor has told me to 'leave her head alone', but if I do, she doesn't settle at all - it's almost as though she wants the discussion.

B - didn't see your other post hun :D. She has the dentist on a regular basis (every six months), but I'll call her and see what she thinks :)

Thank you everybody :D

I'll let you know how it goes...
 
Hi there Mrs M. Ok. She sounds like a seasonal headshaker. Beanie is one.:( Only occurs when ridden, bouncing about, flicking head up and all around the place, rubbing head on foreleg, snorting, worse on sunny days, doesnt just have to be near fields/crops etc. Avoids walking near grass verges, just a nightmare really. Sweats up within 10 mins of being out. Does any of this sound familiar??? If so, I have a couple of suggestions. It is like having a bee up their nose.
 
Good luck!! have read this with interest as I have an extremely stroppy mare when ridden, but at no other time!!! She snatches, dances etc and nothing seems to settle her. Have tried everything, she is worse when she's been out of work for even a short time, so obviously after this winter (not much work at all!) she's a nightmare!!! The worst of the behaviour passes once we've had 3-4 sessions where we have a huge arguement each time. as you say, it's like she HAS to have the discussion.

However, she does get better over time and with consistent work (at least 4 times a week every week), but is never easy, likely to start dancing and snatching at a split seconds notice.

Let us know how you go, good luck. :D
 
C - Oh so close! But... sunlight/clouds doesn't make any difference; doesn't snort; no snot; usually only rubs one nostril; happy to go on grass/near hedges, etc.; doesn't sweat up easily/quickly; she will calm down, eventually(!) and work quite nicely. How did you get a diagnosis? Any tests? Prognosis?

T - What breed is your lass? Dizz is a Dutch Warmblood, six years old; I've owned her for about a year and a half. I'm wondering about the work bit... She was being worked six days a week, but was getting too fit for her braincell (and me!) to cope with (four days ridden, two days Pessoa'd).
 
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if she is headshaker dont know what to suggest as no experience sorry - but if bit/bridle/noseband type issue = have you tried bitless???? dr cooks are very good and will show if same with no bit then something else.
 
Hello Mrs M, it seems to me that Dizzy is frustrated, why not let her have a bit of a burn up and get rid of some energy, dont annalyse(sp) so much, she is a horse not a human. Give her some rein go out and enjoy your self, work will always sort these problems out. We had point-to-pointers that were hell to hack out, take them hunting and they behaved like saints as they had someting else to think about. Go on and be a devil, gallop and have fun. Get to the bottom of her. If you had eaten less sweets on my last post you would have less E numbers and would be considerabley more relaxed.
 
Mine is a welsh x arab, we think! (might be wrong!!). I've been riding her for nearly 3 years now, and she was allowed to get away with murder before. Everything was checked several times, I've just come to the conclusion she's just a stroppy cow!! And believes there's only one pace worth going..... extra fast!!!

Luckily, (or not, depending how you look at it) fitness levels don't change the behaviour, she's always like it lol!!!!!!

At 17 years old its a long haul changing her attitude!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, although I never feel unsafe on her, I still come back from hacks tearful, with my head in my hands wondering why I'm not a better rider / more perceptive (sp) to what causes it etc etc. Annoying, because other times I come back with a huge smile.

xxxxxxx
 
Hi Mrs M...just a long shot...I had always been a fan of Mylers and used them on all three of mine. But...just noticed one day when little pony was yawning she had two sores inside her cheeks, just above the inside corners of her mouth. That made me realise that although the Myler's barrel is a good idea, the edges of the barrell were catching her on the inside of her cheeks when the rein was used. I changed the bit because of this although there was no noticeabe resistance but after changing, the pony was much lighter for my daughter to steer. Two years later, she still has callouses on those spots. Poor pony, I still feel like a bad mum!
 
Flame_ said:
Paint her bay then take her for a sex change. Its a chestnut mare thing IMO. ;)
Click to expand...

From what I understood from a thread about colours and genetics, palomino comes down as a cream gene on a chestnut base.

Maybe this is my problem too lmao!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D
 
Could i be her sinus on that side? Is it wort talking to the vet about a scope to see if there is an obstruction. I know a horse that had a piece of hawthorn right up high, never did find how he got it, but was much happier once removed.
(((Hugs)))

xx
 
P2 - will get D1 to take her for a blast (my seat not yet what it once was :(). So! It's all those Jelly Tots! :D D1 will enjoy lol (and I can watch and eat all her Jelly Tots whilst sipping hot chocolates :D).

T - that was what swung it today, I was upset, I was miserable, but I wasn't scared (other than the wee bit down the hill!). Ah well. Horses!

F - good point! I will have a look tomorrow. Definately changing bits!!

F - a cunning plan! Hope 'he' likes pink.... :D

P - good plan! Will call vet tomorrow :)
 
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